Greg Van Roten, RG from the Raiders...

[zullo1]

A lot of us felt the same way about Austin Jackson going into last season.

Eichenberg was an early second round draft pick and was considered a very safe choice. He came in as a rookie and was our starting left tackle. Then the next year, we asked him to learn an entirely new system while playing left guard for the first time in his life. Then in 2023, we asked him to play center and right guard (both also for the first time in his life) while fighting through lower body injuries.

This is the first year he actually gets to go into a season as a veteran playing a position he’s played before. I have a feeling people are going to be very pleasantly surprised by his 2024 performance.

I hope you are right. Players can get better, but would love to have someone with a higher ceiling. He's been a liability thus far.

 

[Pacer]

I would rather fill our depth with the draft. Both tackle and Guard positions.

Which picks would you use? I am a believer in drafting players for depth--meaning they are not expected to immediately displace a starter--but also think we need to pay attention to 2 out of DB, WR and LB (particularly those who have some pass rush in their game). Definitely would be easier with more day 2 picks...

 

[Marino2.0]

Because he has been bad no matter the position he gets trotted out at?

Not true. He was very good at RG last year per PFF. He just only played it for two games.

Of course he sucked at center. He’s a 6’6 lifelong LT who’s never played center before at any level.

He honestly gets wrongly maligned. He sucked as a rookie starting LT—what second round rookie starts at LT at all? Of course he sucked. Then he sucked at LG the next year in his first ever time playing guard, in his first ever time blocking in an outside zone scheme. And then he sucked this year when playing center—a position that, again, he’s never played before at any level and is pretty objectively too tall to play.

Give him the offseason to actually acclimate to being a guard in a blocking scheme he now knows. He’ll be fine. He was highly drafted for a reason, and he was our starting LT as a rookie for a reason.

 

[Ray R]

Because he sucks.

Does not compute. - LOL

 

[Ray R]

You’re subscribing to the hope theory I see.

So, I hope we were in the playoffs the last two seasons?
Does not compute!

Someone needs an "information" update. - LOL

 

[Feverdream]

I think Eichenberg will eventually win the RG job, but he'll have to beat out Jones and Driscoll, and I'm thinking that Driscoll has the best chance to win that shake.

Driscoll's best year, 2021, saw him playing RG. Pff gave him a 70 ranking on the year there. He only played in 9 games (all starts), but all of the things that can be said about Eichenberg can also be said about Driscoll- similar size, game, and he's been moved around some, although... all on the right side. At worst, I think he's our backup at RT and RG.

Jones is the one I have little faith in improving. He is an unathletic former UDFA who I see as more of a gap blocker. I think he's fighting to stick as our 9th lineman more than he's fighting to start, but I guess we'll see.

I still think Wynn is the real target. A perpetually injured player on a one year deal.
He's missed at least a third of his season 4 times in 5 years... something like 31 games. That's worse than Armstead and do we want two starters with this problem? I would think we'd be doing everything in our power to limit this from happening-- especially considering how last year went down.

 

[The Ghost]

So, I hope we were in the playoffs the last two seasons?
Does not compute!

Someone needs an "information" update. - LOL

Hoping a pretty talented team that you’re emotionally invested in to go to the playoffs is not the same thing as hoping a player that has shown next to no starting talent is suddenly transformed into a positive player.

One is reasonable to happen while the other is not.

Since you want a computation here you go, 44% of the teams in the league go to the playoffs. 90% of the OL in the league are better than Liam Eichenberg.

 

[Pacer]

Not true. He was very good at RG last year per PFF. He just only played it for two games.

Of course he sucked at center. He’s a 6’6 lifelong LT who’s never played center before at any level.

He honestly gets wrongly maligned. He sucked as a rookie starting LT—what second round rookie starts at LT at all? Of course he sucked. Then he sucked at LG the next year in his first ever time playing guard, in his first ever time blocking in an outside zone scheme. And then he sucked this year when playing center—a position that, again, he’s never played before at any level and is pretty objectively too tall to play.

Give him the offseason to actually acclimate to being a guard in a blocking scheme he now knows. He’ll be fine. He was highly drafted for a reason, and he was our starting LT as a rookie for a reason.

Oddly enough some of those who lay the most hate on Eich will swiftly pivot to insist that we can draft a tackle (perhaps even a career-long RT) and plug and play them at OG--just for one season after which we will shift them back to LT.

It would be funny if not for the fact that excessive shifting of roles has contributed significantly to our OLine malaise as much as anything except whiplash coaching changes the past few years. I am in both the draft a future LT camp and the play Eich at RG camp and I think they both need to happen for this line to leap forward to contention quality.

 

[The Ghost]

GVR

 

[Travis34]

Not true. He was very good at RG last year per PFF. He just only played it for two games.

Of course he sucked at center. He’s a 6’6 lifelong LT who’s never played center before at any level.

He honestly gets wrongly maligned. He sucked as a rookie starting LT—what second round rookie starts at LT at all? Of course he sucked. Then he sucked at LG the next year in his first ever time playing guard, in his first ever time blocking in an outside zone scheme. And then he sucked this year when playing center—a position that, again, he’s never played before at any level and is pretty objectively too tall to play.

Give him the offseason to actually acclimate to being a guard in a blocking scheme he now knows. He’ll be fine. He was highly drafted for a reason, and he was our starting LT as a rookie for a reason.

I'm usually optimistic on players, just dont really think he's shown us much. Sorry. Very good, sure maybe 1 game or whatever it was. An anomaly. I'd love if he turned his career around like Jackson, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[Ray R]

Hoping a pretty talented team that you’re emotionally invested in to go to the playoffs is not the same thing as hoping a player that has shown next to no starting talent is suddenly transformed into a positive player.

One is reasonable to happen while the other is not.

Since you want a computation here you go, 44% of the teams in the league go to the playoffs. 90% of the OL in the league are better than Liam Eichenberg.

I'm quoting actual events when I say we went to the playoffs the last two years. Certainly, you are aware of that FACT!

Liam Eichenberg only plays one position at a time on the O-line. He doesn't play the entire O-line. How big is he at a given position compared to your special 44% of the leagues OL players at the same position - in this case I'm looking at OG.

 

[AL R]

I think Eichenberg will eventually win the RG job, but he'll have to beat out Jones and Driscoll, and I'm thinking that Driscoll has the best chance to win that shake.

Driscoll's best year, 2021, saw him playing RG. Pff gave him a 70 ranking on the year there. He only played in 9 games (all starts), but all of the things that can be said about Eichenberg can also be said about Driscoll- similar size, game, and he's been moved around some, although... all on the right side. At worst, I think he's our backup at RT and RG.

Jones is the one I have little faith in improving. He is an unathletic former UDFA who I see as more of a gap blocker. I think he's fighting to stick as our 9th lineman more than he's fighting to start, but I guess we'll see.

I still think Wynn is the real target. A perpetually injured player on a one year deal.
He's missed at least a third of his season 4 times in 5 years... something like 31 games. That's worse than Armstead and do we want two starters with this problem? I would think we'd be doing everything in our power to limit this from happening-- especially considering how last year went down.

The everything in our power is the thing I question. I just don’t think Grier looks at it that way, unfortunately.

Considering Grier tends to try and get what his coaches want, I wonder if Mcd feels similar.

 

[MrClean]

A lot of us felt the same way about Austin Jackson going into last season.

Eichenberg was an early second round draft pick and was considered a very safe choice. He came in as a rookie and was our starting left tackle. Then the next year, we asked him to learn an entirely new system while playing left guard for the first time in his life. Then in 2023, we asked him to play center and right guard (both also for the first time in his life) while fighting through lower body injuries.

This is the first year he actually gets to go into a season as a veteran playing a position he’s played before. I have a feeling people are going to be very pleasantly surprised by his 2024 performance.

I know that I did. I was hoping they'd re-sign Shell to play RT because I was sure Ajax could not be depended upon. Well, he went out and proved me wrong. So as for calling Eich a lost cause at this point, I will refrain from doing so. I don't want to feel silly two years in a row. The coaches basically anointed Ajax the RT at the beginning of last season, and I don't recall there being a serious competition. If they did the same with Eich at RG, we may see him signing a late-season extension as Ajax did last season.
Not saying I would not love to draft Christian Haynes to be the RG. I'm just not expecting it.

 

[MrClean]

Again, kudos to you for holding out hope. But this guy has sucked at every single position on the line they have tried him at so pardon those of us who are "reluctant to accept" he will be good at this one.

Not true. Since you have access to PFF, look at just his two RG starts in 2023 and see how he did. Actually, his lone LG start the week after the two straight RG starts, was his best game of the season. PFF graded him 83.0 overall, and 81.0 in run blocking, facing Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen.

 

[MrClean]

It's not the craziness thing to hope for. Olinemen do usually get dramatically better after their first couple years. Lots of crappy linemen turn into serviceable pros, if given enough time in the league to get stronger and better at their technique.

 Hope is the key word here though.

Hoping Eichenburg is a quality starter is miles away from relying on him as "etched in stone" starter.

I think it's almost a lock we take a Olinemen with our 1st or 2nd round picks.... And that linemen will most likley be good enough to start right away.... And Eichenburg is our worst linemen on paper.

I'd honestly be surprised if Eichenburg starts week 1 and if he is starting it's prob because one of the actual starters is already hurt.

IMO, continuity is the key word. Continuity in coaching, scheme, and position.