Head Coaching Candidates: Just In Case | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Head Coaching Candidates: Just In Case

TheWalrus said:
Head coaches are inexorably tied to personnel decisions. When the decision makers get in a room you can't afford to have even one guy stupid enough to be willing to give up a first and second rounder for Carson ****ing Palmer... much less do it in the way he did. It's unpardonable. I don't trust him and he shouldn't be a head coach for anyone except the New York Jets.
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Walrus I am not trying to give you a hard time, but to say that and at the same time defend Rex Ryan is a bit hypocritical.
 
trojanma said:
Seriously. How can you really hold the Raiders saga against him, considering the Oakland Raiders at the death of Al Davis had to resemble Ancient Rome right before the fall.

I am just so intrigued that a guy can turn around at the age of 46 agree to coach Db's and special teams after being an offensive lifer.
That shows a remarkable amount of mental plasticity.
Compared that to Dan Quinn who essentially spent his entire career as a defensive line coach.
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Here's a list of things Hue Jackson did after Al Davis died that make me leery of him:

1. Immediately took over GM duties and traded a first and second round pick mid-season for a quarterback who was, at that point, essentially washed up (and had been in retirement for a year). He then actually passed the blame for the trade on to Al Davis, claiming "that decision came from above." That was after as Walrus points out, he first tried to spin it as the greatest trade ever.

2. Blamed the lousy defensive performance of the Raiders under his watch on the aforementioned late Al Davis, claiming that Al was actually the defensive coordinator of the team. Now everyone knows Al meddled, but that was mostly to call down and tell his head coach to start dialing up more deep balls. This one isn't plausible to me -- or anyone else, really.

3. Engaged in some pretty heavy-handed political in-fighting during the ownership transfer, essentially trying to pressure Mark Davis into keeping him. When that didn't happen...

4. He fed his friend Michael Silver this 'scoop' full of unadulterated tabloid journalism to undermine Mark Davis.


Mark Davis appears to be a bad owner and some of the things he's done since then certainly don't make me sympathetic to him, but come on. That's some bush league **** right there. You gotta question Jackson's judgment and his ability to function as part of a team when he has a track record like that.
 
I was referring to a general misuse of draft picks and overseeing a general deterioration of talent not a specific hyperblunder.

You have often said that Ryan is a great coach saddled with a terrible personnel department.
Yet who hired incompetent coordinators?
I find it hard to believe that Ryan did not have a hand in the last six drafts going after either d linemen or defensive backs. All the while the offense was a withering husk.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Here's a list of things Hue Jackson did after Al Davis died that make me leery of him:

1. Immediately took over GM duties and traded a first and second round pick mid-season for a quarterback who was, at that point, essentially washed up (and had been in retirement for a year). He then actually passed the blame for the trade on to Al Davis, claiming "that decision came from above." That was after as Walrus points out, he first tried to spin it as the greatest trade ever.

2. Blamed the lousy defensive performance of the Raiders under his watch on the aforementioned late Al Davis, claiming that Al was actually the defensive coordinator of the team. Now everyone knows Al meddled, but that was mostly to call down and tell his head coach to start dialing up more deep balls. This one isn't plausible to me -- or anyone else, really.

3. Engaged in some pretty heavy-handed political in-fighting during the ownership transfer, essentially trying to pressure Mark Davis into keeping him. When that didn't happen...

4. He fed his friend Michael Silver this 'scoop' full of unadulterated tabloid journalism to undermine Mark Davis.


Mark Davis appears to be a bad owner and some of the things he's done since then certainly don't make me sympathetic to him, but come on. That's some bush league **** right there. You gotta question Jackson's judgment and his ability to function as part of a team when he has a track record like that.
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Thats fair.
I was looking at it from a strictly CV perspective from a 1000 miles up.
 
trojanma said:
I was referring to a general misuse of draft picks and overseeing a general deterioration of talent not a specific hyperblunder.

You have often said that Ryan is a great coach saddled with a terrible personnel department.
Yet who hired incompetent coordinators?
I find it hard to believe that Ryan did not have a hand in the last six drafts going after either d linemen or defensive backs. All the while the offense was a withering husk.
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I don't follow the Jets closely enough to know with that level of detail of who pushed for what pick or trade. That information can be hard to come by on this team sometimes (not always, but sometimes).

What I do know is that Idzik is trying to clean house on all the old Tannenbaum decisions. I mean, Idzik is not a football guy. He's a cap guy. So is Tannenbaum, by the way, but Tanny was leveraging the cap and trading away draft picks to make a few runs at the Super Bowl. Johnson hired Idzik to clean up the mess and start over -- in other words, to run the team on the cheap in the short term. Hence the giant gaping holes on that roster where talent is supposed to be. I've also read that Rex has been shut out almost completely from all personnel related decisions. As in not even consulted.

It's a familiar cycle. A new GM is hired and he and the owner decide to keep the old coach for a purging year. The coach predictably fails to turn **** into shinola and is canned, allowing the GM to entice a new head coach with a nice clean roster and cap. Only Rex threw a wrench into it by actually managing to win eight games last year. Hence my appreciation for him. I already respected him as a coach and a motivator, but you could see what Idzik was doing and the way Rex was set up to fail from a mile away. Only he didn't particularly fail. This year it looks like he finally might.

The Hue Jackson thing was 180 degrees different. Jackson mortgaged the future... and managed to produce 8-8.

I grant you Ryan failed to hire good offensive coordinators. He has a known weakness there. But he was the defacto DC and his actual DC -- Mike Pettine -- has already shown himself to be a very fine coach outside of Ryan's influence. It's not at all like Philbin's specialty being offense yet his first choice of offensive coordinator ended up being a failure.
 
Jim Tomsula the DL coach for the 49ers should be included. He was the interim HC between Harbaugh-Singletary, a head coach for a year in NFL Europe, and interviewed for every head opening last year but the Lions. Dan Quinn should be #1 candidate though.
 
DefensiveEnd76 said:
How about a highly motivated coach who is fairly young (early 40's).
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I don't care if we hire an 80 year old as long as he can get us into playoffs. Not sure what the fascination with coaches of certain ages are.
 
dlockz said:
I don't care if we hire an 80 year old as long as he can get us into playoffs. Not sure what the fascination with coaches of certain ages are.
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I think it's because people feel that an older coach has the tendencies of how football used to be played. hard nosed, running, without a lot of imagination.
 
truedolfan57 said:
I think it's because people feel that an older coach has the tendencies of how football used to be played. hard nosed, running, without a lot of imagination.
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You mean
How Seattle & San Fran play hard nosed and run the ball and play defense?
 
truedolfan57 said:
I think it's because people feel that an older coach has the tendencies of how football used to be played. hard nosed, running, without a lot of imagination.
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I think that a generalization without any real basis. Don shula for example went from straight ground and pound to a totally different offense with Dan Marino. good coaches make adjustments as needed.
Bill belichek came up from that type of environment with PArcells and adapted many times with the Patriots. There are plenty of younger coaches that show no more imagination than their older counterparts
 
Tannenballs said:
You mean
How Seattle & San Fran play hard nosed and run the ball and play defense?
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Yes, and they also don't have an 80yo coach who can't make adjustments and have a qb that can extend plays...and runs with the ball. an old coach would probably have the tendencies of finding pocket qb's. so i'm not sure where you are going with this.
dlockz said:
I think that a generalization without any real basis. Don shula for example went from straight ground and pound to a totally different offense with Dan Marino. good coaches make adjustments as needed.
Bill belichek came up from that type of environment with PArcells and adapted many times with the Patriots. There are plenty of younger coaches that show no more imagination than their older counterparts
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Don Shula really didn't have an option to change philosophies with a QB like Dan Marino. Plus, shula was 53 during marino's rookie year.

I'm not saying one way or another, i'm just giving a reason why most people would rather want someone younger. They think someone younger can put a fresh perspective on the game. Kind of like how people were bitching about parcell when he was with Miami. outdated.

I'm in the same boat as you, I don't care how old the coach is, as long as we win.
 
truedolfan57 said:
Yes, and they also don't have an 80yo coach who can't make adjustments and have a qb that can extend plays...and runs with the ball. an old coach would probably have the tendencies of finding pocket qb's. so i'm not sure where you are going with this.

Don Shula really didn't have an option to change philosophies with a QB like Dan Marino. Plus, shula was 53 during marino's rookie year.

I'm not saying one way or another, i'm just giving a reason why most people would rather want someone younger. They think someone younger can put a fresh perspective on the game. Kind of like how people were bitching about parcell when he was with Miami. outdated.

I'm in the same boat as you, I don't care how old the coach is, as long as we win.
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I hear ya. Im sure raider fans loved the fresh perspective that Lane Kiffin gave them lol
 
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