Henne/Sanchez: Who Gives Finfans More to Smile About? Sanchez>Henne

[tay0365]

So one player = entire D? It certainly seems like it. In two preseason games, Panthers have allowed 90 ypg passing. Are you going to tell me that its preseason and thats why they are doing good? If so, whats the debate? If not so, whats the debate?

No, not exactly. One superior talent can make a bad defense better, an average defense good, and a good defense great. Think about this, how good have the Steelers defense played without Polamalu, the Ravens Defense without Lewis, the Bucs defense without Sapp, the Giants defense without LT....

Don't go with what happens in preseason, a few years ago the Detroit Lions went undefeated, and that did not continue once the regular season started.

 

[JETSJETSJETS]

No, not exactly. One superior talent can make a bad defense better, an average defense good, and a good defense great. Think about this, how good have the Steelers defense played without Polamalu, the Ravens Defense without Lewis, the Bucs defense without Sapp, the Giants defense without LT....

Don't go with what happens in preseason, a few years ago the Detroit Lions went undefeated, and that did not continue once the regular season started.

I know. And I don't disagree with you at all. There's a good chance Revis might be in the starting line up by wk1. If not, I'd say he wouldn't want to miss the ultra-hyped wk3 matchup.

Going back to the discussion, a superior talent will definitely have an affect on the overall D. If you have a decent player to fill his shoe, that affect is reduced. Kyle Wilson is believed to be the real deal. Jets CS has nothing but praise for him and so far he has largely gone untested, albeit two pre season games. Not saying he'll perform at Revis' level, but the Jets seem to have a player who can fill in the void incase Revis' situation is not resolved. I guess we'll have to play the wait and see game.

 

[tay0365]

I know. And I don't disagree with you at all. There's a good chance Revis might be in the starting line up by wk1. If not, I'd say he wouldn't want to miss the ultra-hyped wk3 matchup.

Going back to the discussion, a superior talent will definitely have an affect on the overall D. If you have a decent player to fill his shoe, that affect is reduced. Kyle Wilson is believed to be the real deal. Jets CS has nothing but praise for him and so far he has largely gone untested, albeit two pre season games. Not saying he'll perform at Revis' level, but the Jets seem to have a player who can fill in the void incase Revis' situation is not resolved. I guess we'll have to play the wait and see game.

As great a player as Revis is, I don't really think it will hurt as much as it would normally hurt another team losing a top talent, because as you said Wilson will make it easier not having Revis on board.

Personally I still don't think the season will start without Revis, the question is not, will Revis play, but more accurately, when will he play.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

I know. And I don't disagree with you at all. There's a good chance Revis might be in the starting line up by wk1. If not, I'd say he wouldn't want to miss the ultra-hyped wk3 matchup.

Going back to the discussion, a superior talent will definitely have an affect on the overall D. If you have a decent player to fill his shoe, that affect is reduced. Kyle Wilson is believed to be the real deal. Jets CS has nothing but praise for him and so far he has largely gone untested, albeit two pre season games. Not saying he'll perform at Revis' level, but the Jets seem to have a player who can fill in the void incase Revis' situation is not resolved. I guess we'll have to play the wait and see game.

And I am sure as a jets fan that is important to you, however as a dolphin fan we whipped you boys twice last year WITH him, so with him or without him it really doesn't matter to us. It's not like he is gonna be able to cover Marshall even if he is there.

 

[JETSJETSJETS]

And I am sure as a jets fan that is important to you, however as a dolphin fan we whipped you boys twice last year WITH him, so with him or without him it really doesn't matter to us. It's not like he is gonna be able to cover Marshall even if he is there.

3-3 with Revis. Whats are you talking about? Revis messed up that one play on Ginn. He was supposed to have safety help as well for the deep ball while he played the under route. That was pretty much his lone miss the entire season. I am sure Finfans would agree with me that if Ginn faces Revis 100 times, Revis wins that battle 95 times. Besides, that second game, Revis had nothing to do with the loss. The two returned kickoffs for TDs was all on the special teams unit. I'd be surprised if I see that again on back to back kickoffs.

You are giving Revis NO respect and there are fin fans who are more than willing to correct your mistake.

 

[Dolfan984]

JETS one thing man is Wilson is a rookie. I mean you look around here and everyone is high on Vontae right? Well he played pretty decently as a rookie and looks like he has all the tools.

But he played like a rookie. Vet receivers have their tricks and rookie corners typically struggle more than most positions. Without Revis your secondary is a lot sketchier.

But honestly what is worse? Not having Revis or paying him 50+ mil guaranteed and not being able to sign many of your own free agents next year?

 

[JETSJETSJETS]

JETS one thing man is Wilson is a rookie. I mean you look around here and everyone is high on Vontae right? Well he played pretty decently as a rookie and looks like he has all the tools.

But he played like a rookie. Vet receivers have their tricks and rookie corners typically struggle more than most positions. Without Revis your secondary is a lot sketchier.

But honestly what is worse? Not having Revis or paying him 50+ mil guaranteed and not being able to sign many of your own free agents next year?

Yeah, I know what you're saying. A rookie will play like one. But I meant was that Wilson seems decent for being a rookie. Better than having Lowery start and much much better than having Lito and his injuries for 8 games and a 3rd/4th stringer as a starter for the other 8 games. Even with all those injuries to Jets CBs last year, we had the 4th best pass in the last 18 years. Its a scary thought this year to be honest. Cro is much better than Lito, who had been regressing the last few years in Philly. And Cro doesn't have an injury history remotely similar to Lito. Cro also fits into Ryan's defensive scheme very nicely that plays man coverage, rather than zone. If Revis comes back, Wilson moves over to the slot position. I'd rather have Wilson in the slot than Lowery. Lowery, who has shown he can play in the NFL as a nickel corner, would be the 4th corner on the depth chart.

Anyways, back to your question, what is worse? I think Jets have enough resources to hand out a few more deals. Tanny has cut a few players over the last two years that have resulted in a lot of cap savings in the future years. Faneca was supposed to make like $8mil in 2011, so thats a straight saving. The new deals have signing bonuses that will not count against salary cap (to my understanding). That is why Jets have already done two deals this year and Revis deals seems highly likely now. On top of that, Gholston took a huge pay cut and is scheduled to make around $600k next year with a chance to get another $7-8 mils in incentives. Thats a lot of savings as well.

We will lose a few players. We will most likely lose either Holmes or Braylon next year, who ever out plays each other. JT will be gone. Cromartie will probably be tendered if possible, or resigned to a short term deal. Harris will get his big pay day though, no questions (unless he wants to be the highest paid defender - not happening). Damien Woody would be on fumes as well since he'd be 33. Depending on the cap, there would be a few FAs next year. If the new salary cap is much higher than in 2009, Jets may not lose as many players.

 

[Dolfan984]

Yeah, I know what you're saying. A rookie will play like one. But I meant was that Wilson seems decent for being a rookie. Better than having Lowery start and much much better than having Lito and his injuries for 8 games and a 3rd/4th stringer as a starter for the other 8 games. Even with all those injuries to Jets CBs last year, we had the 4th best pass in the last 18 years. Its a scary thought this year to be honest. Cro is much better than Lito, who had been regressing the last few years in Philly. And Cro doesn't have an injury history remotely similar to Lito. Cro also fits into Ryan's defensive scheme very nicely that plays man coverage, rather than zone. If Revis comes back, Wilson moves over to the slot position. I'd rather have Wilson in the slot than Lowery. Lowery, who has shown he can play in the NFL as a nickel corner, would be the 4th corner on the depth chart.

Anyways, back to your question, what is worse? I think Jets have enough resources to hand out a few more deals. Tanny has cut a few players over the last two years that have resulted in a lot of cap savings in the future years. Faneca was supposed to make like $8mil in 2011, so thats a straight saving. The new deals have signing bonuses that will not count against salary cap (to my understanding). That is why Jets have already done two deals this year and Revis deals seems highly likely now. On top of that, Gholston took a huge pay cut and is scheduled to make around $600k next year with a chance to get another $7-8 mils in incentives. Thats a lot of savings as well.

We will lose a few players. We will most likely lose either Holmes or Braylon next year, who ever out plays each other. JT will be gone. Cromartie will probably be tendered if possible, or resigned to a short term deal. Harris will get his big pay day though, no questions (unless he wants to be the highest paid defender - not happening). Damien Woody would be on fumes as well since he'd be 33. Depending on the cap, there would be a few FAs next year. If the new salary cap is much higher than in 2009, Jets may not lose as many players.

I guess it all depends on how much Signing bonuses affect the future cap. I could be completely wrong but isn't there something about signing bonus money affecting future years caps more than if you signed them when there was a cap. I remember reading something like that but don't quote me on it too much. :)

You're right though it all depends on the cap (if there's football next season) if it's large you'll be fine. Guess it's a wait and see kind of thing.

And about Wilson. Yeah he could be better than those vets....but unless he gets some killer safety help he will make some rookie mistakes and get burned possibly deep. Rookie corners usually end up having very high opposing QB ratings against them. Just how it goes. (usually) Of course the Jets front 7 makes the secondaries life a lot easier but if a QB sees a blitz the first thing they're probably thinking is "attack the rookie in single coverage"

Then again if you end up having Revis putting him as the nickle back he'll be exactly where he needs to be to grow. Not enough snaps to where he gets picked on, but on the field enough to get great game time experience.