History of Successful Head Coaches | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

History of Successful Head Coaches

Ekinger said:
And you are saying because Billy inherited a team that didn't change much but was absolutely awful one year but went on to win SB's he inherited far more talent?

My point is this. Bill has always found a way to take mediocre to above average talent and get the absolute utmost out of it. He's a phenomenal teacher and understands how to prepare a team completely for each individual challenge. He not only gets the utmost out of that talent but gets them to work seemlessly with the rest of the team. How many so called offensive studs has he lost and replaced them with guys that are seemingly as good? Bill understands how to utilize the strengths of his players and through strong team play reduce inadequacies. The same sort of thing Mangini has done this year.

You'd be hard pressed to say that any Pats team hasn't overperformed or overachieved. They were the second largest underdog in SB history and won. He even uses the rules to his benefit. The rules had to be changed because of how he manipulated them in secondary defense.
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First and foremost, I am NOT trying to discount Bill's coaching skills! HE is definitely one of the best, if not the best, in the business period! What I am trying to say though is that he had a VERY GOOD foundation to build on from the get go! And as he lost players to injury or other teams, he had someone on the bench that could fill the position ONLY BECAUSE he had a damn good starting lineup to start with!!!

Having talent is one thing... Coaching it is another and I agree... But the biggest benefit that Billy had was the continuity of the OC and DC for several years and that the assistants under those coaches had the benefit to learn the system and replace them when they were promoted...

Can you not see this?:confused:
 
FINintheMOON said:
First and foremost, I am NOT trying to discount Bill's coaching skills! HE is definitely one of the best, if not the best, in the business period! What I am trying to say though is that he had a VERY GOOD foundation to build on from the get go! And as he lost players to injury or other teams, he had someone on the bench that could fill the position ONLY BECAUSE he had a damn good starting lineup to start with!!!

Having talent is one thing... Coaching it is another and I agree... But the biggest benefit that Billy had was the continuity of the OC and DC for several years and that the assistants under those coaches had the benefit to learn the system and replace them when they were promoted...

Can you not see this?:confused:
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And who exactly picked those OC's and DC's? I don't disagree with anything that you've said. However, it doesn't matter a hill of beans who the guys on the bench were that could fill the position if they couldn't play the position they were filling and getting mediocre guys to perform at the same level as or nearly the same level as the starters has nothing to do with talent, it has to do with coaching and shows how unspectacular most of his starters were.

It's no coincedence that Mangini took over the Jets, has outperformed Herm Edwards immensely and has taken a team with some of the least talent in the league and created winners out of them. Charlie Weis and Romeo, not so sure about. Frankly, I don't think they are as intelligent as Mangini and I also am willing to bet that they didn't have the ability to see much beyond their individual jobs. They weren't able to perform at the level Bill required without total devotion. Mangini on the other hand was able to perform at a top level without being entirely consumed by his title.
 
Ekinger said:
And who exactly picked those OC's and DC's? I don't disagree with anything that you've said. However, it doesn't matter a hill of beans who the guys on the bench were that could fill the position if they couldn't play the position they were filling and getting mediocre guys to perform at the same level as or nearly the same level as the starters has nothing to do with talent, it has to do with coaching and shows how unspectacular most of his starters were.

It's no coincedence that Mangini took over the Jets, has outperformed Herm Edwards immensely and has taken a team with some of the least talent in the league and created winners out of them. Charlie Weis and Romeo, not so sure about. Frankly, I don't think they are as intelligent as Mangini and I also am willing to bet that they didn't have the ability to see much beyond their individual jobs. They weren't able to perform at the level Bill required without total devotion. Mangini on the other hand was able to perform at a top level without being entirely consumed by his title.
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In what way has he out performed Herm Edwards?
 
Ekinger said:
And who exactly picked those OC's and DC's? I don't disagree with anything that you've said. However, it doesn't matter a hill of beans who the guys on the bench were that could fill the position if they couldn't play the position they were filling and getting mediocre guys to perform at the same level as or nearly the same level as the starters has nothing to do with talent, it has to do with coaching and shows how unspectacular most of his starters were.

It's no coincedence that Mangini took over the Jets, has outperformed Herm Edwards immensely and has taken a team with some of the least talent in the league and created winners out of them. Charlie Weis and Romeo, not so sure about. Frankly, I don't think they are as intelligent as Mangini and I also am willing to bet that they didn't have the ability to see much beyond their individual jobs. They weren't able to perform at the level Bill required without total devotion. Mangini on the other hand was able to perform at a top level without being entirely consumed by his title.
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OK EKINGER... My next segment will be on MANGINI!!! However, if you do not think that Weis and Crennel had nothing to do with the PATS success... Then I will only say that I disagree... They themselves are being successful at what they are doing today as well!
 
Crennel has almost exactly the same kind of team and hasn't been as successful in his 2nd year as Mangini has his first year. Charlie Weis is a college coach now and though somewhat successful didn't get a cream of the crop job imo. Notre Dame has always been overyped and overrated.

Beyond that Bellichick picked those guys.

What was the Jets record last year under Herm? Ummmmm, 4-12? He's got an incredibly talented KC team that isn't going to make the playoffs when the far less talented Jets would easily make it to the playoffs were it not for the Pats.
 
Ekinger said:
It doesn't matter, he makes the most out of mediocre players. It's the only way a guy can win multiple superbowls in a short period of time in the era of free agency. He's a pioneer and already has to be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time across all sports. He's the greatest teaching coach the NFL has ever seen. When something is wrong, he teaches a guy that may not have the physical ability to compensate how to do it mentally.
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That same team was coming from a superbowl run not long ago, that team was ready to contend and insted he sent them into a 5-11 record the very next year, if NS had a 5-11 record with the exact same players the previous regime had 8-8, he would of been crucified, even worse if it happened only 3 years removed from a superbowl run... That said, he has done little to bring youth to that squad, bought into a bunch of older vets (thing Saban gets killed for around here) and for closing point, he had that same first Superbowl winning team the next year and the completely missed the playoffs do you call that overachieving?
 
Joey 22 said:
That same team was coming from a superbowl run not long ago, that team was ready to contend and insted he sent them into a 5-11 record the very next year, if NS had a 5-11 record with the exact same players the previous regime had 8-8, he would of been crucified, even worse if it happened only 3 years removed from a superbowl run... That said, he has done little to bring youth to that squad, bought into a bunch of older vets (thing Saban gets killed for around here) and for closing point, he had that same first Superbowl winning team the next year and the completely missed the playoffs do you call that overachieving?
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The team that went to the playoffs was entirely different. You won't find many of the same players. That 5-11 team was just that talent wise. Completely missed the playoffs with a better record than we've had since 2002 and we were the reason they missed the playoffs at 9-7.

Sorry dude, whatever your trying to say here isn't working. There is no coach that's ever gotten more out of less.
 
Ekinger said:
Crennel has almost exactly the same kind of team and hasn't been as successful in his 2nd year as Mangini has his first year. Charlie Weis is a college coach now and though somewhat successful didn't get a cream of the crop job imo. Notre Dame has always been overyped and overrated.

Beyond that Bellichick picked those guys.

What was the Jets record last year under Herm? Ummmmm, 4-12? He's got an incredibly talented KC team that isn't going to make the playoffs when the far less talented Jets would easily make it to the playoffs were it not for the Pats.
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This will sooner or later hppen to Mangini as well, Penny got and will get injured, Martins knees broke, right the year after he led the league in rushing, that was absolutely unexpected and unexpectable, Mawae and almost their entire O line got injured, Mangini would be lucky to go 1-15 with the 2005 Jets...
 
Ekinger said:
Crennel has almost exactly the same kind of team and hasn't been as successful in his 2nd year as Mangini has his first year. Charlie Weis is a college coach now and though somewhat successful didn't get a cream of the crop job imo. Notre Dame has always been overyped and overrated.

Beyond that Bellichick picked those guys.

What was the Jets record last year under Herm? Ummmmm, 4-12? He's got an incredibly talented KC team that isn't going to make the playoffs when the far less talented Jets would easily make it to the playoffs were it not for the Pats.
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So with BB you say its pure coaching talent turning the Pats already talented base into a winner yet with Herm Edwards its pure luck? Your picking in choosing your winning coaches based on your feelings and not logic. As for Notre Dame being overrated going 9-2 IMO is not overrated at all.Basically I get the feeling your picking and choosing at random so that you can say you don't think Nick Saban has done a good job. As for the jets not making it because of the pats well isnt that the whole idea of division play. Again your reaching.
 
Ekinger said:
The team that went to the playoffs was entirely different. You won't find many of the same players. That 5-11 team was just that talent wise. Completely missed the playoffs with a better record than we've had since 2002 and we were the reason they missed the playoffs at 9-7.

Sorry dude, whatever your trying to say here isn't working. There is no coach that's ever gotten more out of less.
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?????? We where 10-6 on 2003, besides what that has to do?

Again, scratch off the 2004 Dolphins, 2003, we are 10-6, pretty much the same team and all, and a new coch comes in and takes you to 5-11, doesnt that suck? The 5-11 team was the exact same Parcells 8-8 team, the SB team wasnt, it was LOADED with expensive FA aquisitions, Antowain Smith. Keith Traylor, when that expensive, old talent caught up on age, they didnt make the POs...So easy...
 
Now compare that to NS who got a 4-12 team and turned it to 9-7, NOT 8-8 to 5-11, he didnt kept the exact same roster cause IT WASNT TALENTED!!!! He had to turn over 20+ players, with cheap FAs, off the street, who nobody wanted, hit on all his first 4 draft picks in his first draft, I cant see why you guys think Mangini and BB where any better their early years...
 
Never mind that BB stunk up the joint in Cleveland. Sometimes it takes coach and talent to put it all together.
 
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