History of Successful Head Coaches

[Ekinger]

?????? We where 10-6 on 2003, besides what that has to do?

Again, scratch off the 2004 Dolphins, 2003, we are 10-6, pretty much the same team and all, and a new coch comes in and takes you to 5-11, doesnt that suck? The 5-11 team was the exact same Parcells 8-8 team, the SB team wasnt, it was LOADED with expensive FA aquisitions, Antowain Smith. Keith Traylor, when that expensive, old talent caught up on age, they didnt make the POs...So easy...

Parcells always leaves teams in the decline. You just made a great point for me. The team that went to the SB in 1996, that team was loaded with pro bowl talent and they didn't win. Amazing, because Bellichicks teams are never loaded with pro bowl talent yet they've won 3 in 6 years. What does that tell you, tons of talent no SB win, decent talent 3 SB's? Huh.

 

[Ekinger]

This will sooner or later hppen to Mangini as well, Penny got and will get injured, Martins knees broke, right the year after he led the league in rushing, that was absolutely unexpected and unexpectable, Mawae and almost their entire O line got injured, Mangini would be lucky to go 1-15 with the 2005 Jets...

Besides Pennington, whom everyone that watches him knows is a mediocre qb at best, the team is exactly the same as last years team and Mangini has them making a run at the playoffs. If Mangini were the coach of the Dolphins we'd be the division leader right now.

I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that the Jets haven't been anything other than stunning this year. I can't stand the Jets, they are my 2nd most disliked team behind the Pats. And I'm biased against them, and I know that. Which is why I truly understand how amazing the accomplishment is this year.

 

[AquaAssasin]

great work...lots of fine points...one thing though...Bill B, doesn't pick his players...his GM Scott Pioli does...

Not true BB does. Pioli is no different than Mueller. BB has total control of the team.

 

[PhinsRock]

Fininthe moon that was one of the more intelligent posts/threads I've seen on here in a while. Thanks for the effort, good read.

 

[AquaAssasin]

First and foremost, I am NOT trying to discount Bill's coaching skills! HE is definitely one of the best, if not the best, in the business period! What I am trying to say though is that he had a VERY GOOD foundation to build on from the get go! And as he lost players to injury or other teams, he had someone on the bench that could fill the position ONLY BECAUSE he had a damn good starting lineup to start with!!!

Having talent is one thing... Coaching it is another and I agree... But the biggest benefit that Billy had was the continuity of the OC and DC for several years and that the assistants under those coaches had the benefit to learn the system and replace them when they were promoted...

Can you not see this?:confused:

Very true and this is the same system that Saban runs but he didnt hire from within when Linehan was hired by the Rams (unfortunately).

 

[ihateyou134]

All i know is, Mularkey was the biggest reason for our offensive suckfest and i cant say if this was just his first year, and he needs more years, but from his history, i really think we're better off in the long run with him gone completely, hopefully im wrong but ill be real disapointed if he stays

 

[Ekinger]

It's funny, if you take anyone in BB's lineup and put them on another team, very few people except the fans of those teams would know about them. Everyone except Tom Brady. I totally disagree with the statement that he had an excellent foundation to work with. The foundation became great once he was able to coach them for over a year.

He picked his OC and DC and they learned his system and devoted themselves to it. Again, that's on him. Our talent base other than qb is better than the Pats was in either of their first two years yet they won a SB his second season.

I really appreciate the post and enjoyed the breakdown. But too many times we suggest that Saban needs more time. At this point, it's safe to say that Saban hasn't made enough good decisions to suggest he's ready to take us to the next level. Does that mean he won't ever be able to get us there?
Absolutely not. I certainly think he's intelligent enough. Whether that ever translates into creating a winning tradition is impossible to tell as of yet and he's going to have to get far better than he's been.

 

[FINdestructible]

Good post.

 

[finintheburgh]

It's funny, if you take anyone in BB's lineup and put them on another team, very few people except the fans of those teams would know about them. Everyone except Tom Brady. I totally disagree with the statement that he had an excellent foundation to work with. The foundation became great once he was able to coach them for over a year.

He picked his OC and DC and they learned his system and devoted themselves to it. Again, that's on him. Our talent base other than qb is better than the Pats was in either of their first two years yet they won a SB his second season.

I really appreciate the post and enjoyed the breakdown. But too many times we suggest that Saban needs more time. At this point, it's safe to say that Saban hasn't made enough good decisions to suggest he's ready to take us to the next level. Does that mean he won't ever be able to get us there?
Absolutely not. I certainly think he's intelligent enough. Whether that ever translates into creating a winning tradition is impossible to tell as of yet and he's going to have to get far better than he's been.

good points. the thing i do like about NE is that there are no super stars,besides brady,. for them its all about the team. BB didnt go out and get big name players who were discarded for one reason or another. you never heard any of the BS about how any player was unhappy about the way there being used.
sabans mistake is hes not trying to build the team with youth, hes bring in alot of 1-2 year stop gaps.its to much of a win now program that doesnt have the key cornerstones in it.

 

[FINintheMOON]

It's funny, if you take anyone in BB's lineup and put them on another team, very few people except the fans of those teams would know about them. Everyone except Tom Brady. I totally disagree with the statement that he had an excellent foundation to work with. The foundation became great once he was able to coach them for over a year.

He picked his OC and DC and they learned his system and devoted themselves to it. Again, that's on him. Our talent base other than qb is better than the Pats was in either of their first two years yet they won a SB his second season.

I really appreciate the post and enjoyed the breakdown. But too many times we suggest that Saban needs more time. At this point, it's safe to say that Saban hasn't made enough good decisions to suggest he's ready to take us to the next level. Does that mean he won't ever be able to get us there?
Absolutely not. I certainly think he's intelligent enough. Whether that ever translates into creating a winning tradition is impossible to tell as of yet and he's going to have to get far better than he's been.

EK... The thing that you seem to be missing here though is the fact that even though BB and NS had comprable talent, BB inherited a cohesive team! Bledsoe, GLENN, BROWN and SIMMONS ALL played on the 99 team... The "D" was also there as well... Granted, BB hired WEISS and CRENNELL as OC and DC respectively, but other than that, there were only 2 or 3 positional changes on the ENTIRE team! He went 5-11 with the very same team that was 8-8 the previous year.

Now in 2001, 2 or 3 players were promoted/drafted that complimented the team... BB also had WEISS and CRENNELL back again! They went 11-5 and went on to win the big game! Did he have talent on his team? HELL YES! What was the difference on that team? CONTINUITY!!!

NS not only hire a OC and DC... He had to find a QB and made several changes in the OL and draft. HE took a 4-12 and turned it into a 9-7 team in his first year... Then he had to make changes due to salary caps, that by the way was not an issue with a BILL PARCELLS team, and there was an 80% turnover in the secondary, 50% turnover in the OL, had to find yet another QB(s), new OC, new DC and still will finish with a winning record (TO BE SEEN)!

So who is the better coach? 1 that took a .500 team with cohesion to a 5-11 in the first year or the one that took a 4-12 team, with no cohesion to a 9-7 record the first year?

 

[Phanatical]

So Billy Boy, takes nearly the same team from a loser to a top contender from one year to the next. If that doesn't scream of great coaching, I don't know what does. Billy Boy did what Saban hasn't been able to do from one year to the next. He hasn't had this team prepared well to start the season, he's been slow to make changes when things are working and his offensive staffing decisions have been below average at best.

He drafted a real NFL QB. That's what made him such a genius.

 

[Phanatical]

Besides Pennington, whom everyone that watches him knows is a mediocre qb at best, the team is exactly the same as last years team and Mangini has them making a run at the playoffs. If Mangini were the coach of the Dolphins we'd be the division leader right now.

I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that the Jets haven't been anything other than stunning this year. I can't stand the Jets, they are my 2nd most disliked team behind the Pats. And I'm biased against them, and I know that. Which is why I truly understand how amazing the accomplishment is this year.

Not true. Mangini has a real QB in NY, something he wouldn't have in Miami. Plus, we have MM which is another handicap itself.

 

[finintheburgh]

Not true. Mangini has a real QB in NY, something he wouldn't have in Miami. Plus, we have MM which is another handicap itself.

i think you make a good point. the problem is that both things you point out were sabans decisions.
saban brought in MM, mangini brought in his own OC
the problems with the qb position are on saban, he made the wrong choices and that is fault. he took a gamble and it failed. while mangini has chad he still drafted a high rd qb and brought in another qb in case chad couldnt go. it looks like hes planning for the future instead of gambling it away to win now which is hurting this team.
i think we made a huge mistake not taking croyle in the 3rd,i would rather have kept gus, who i cant stand, and drafted croyle and developed him rather than waste the picks we did on the qbs we have

 

[unluckyluciano]

mangini

I think its a mistake to even try to compare a coach who hasnt made the playoffs, and could quite possibly have the same record that miami did after Saban's first year. Yet hes being thrown into the conversation like he's done something special.
HUH?

edit: not picking on you or what you said I agree somewhat with what you said, just you were the last person to bring him up : ).

 

[Marino420TD]

He drafted a real NFL QB. That's what made him such a genius.

This is usually the key to being a great coach, or having longevity as a coach. A coach must be able to get the most out of the QB position, and get good to very good QB play. This does not necessarily mean having a "great" QB, just having a QB play at a high level.

The reason? If your QB plays well, then you usually have a chance to win, are usually in the game, and the team (and the fans) feel like you can always win.

Gibbs went to SB's (and won) with Theisman, Doug Williams, and Rypien. Not great, but he got very good QB play out of them.

Shula went to a SB with Woodley and kept a perfect season alive with Morrall. When Marino went down, Strock or Mitchell came in and played pretty well. Strock also played well in relief of Griese for many years. Hell, he tied or broke Halas wins record with 3rd stringer Doug Pederson in as QB.

Saban needs to figure out how to get a good QB, or get good QB play.