How Would Josh Rosen Need To Perform In 2019 For You To Forgo Drafting A 1st Round Qb In 2020?

Mach2

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After watching the above discussion transpire, my opinion is the axiom is as true today, as ever.

Defense wins championships.

Are ther outliers, like "the greatest show on turf"? Of course there are, but without good defensive play throughout a playoff run, teams, usually don't make it to the championship round.

This is true in all major sports, IMO.
 

Brad528

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Or Tua could be the next great QB as well. Nobody truly knows. It's all a gamble just like trading for Rosen was because he could end up being a bust too.[/QUOTE .we eseessentia got rosen for a fifth round pick and only pay him 6 million for three years. I don't really see a gamble at all
 

Ryan1973

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Well that makes my point even stronger that they would have no problem drafting a QB in the first round next year if they are in position to do so.
 

Mach2

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It's kinda like porn. There's not a definition for it, but I'll know it when I see it.
Though I like, and appreciate the analogy, it is still subjective.

What I might consider a tasteful nude photoshoot, a born again may consider hardcore porn.
 

fansinceGWilson

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Well if Rosen gets them to 10-6 they won't be in position to draft a QB unless they trade the farm to move up and get a QB. I doubt that would happen if Rosen gets this team to a 10-6 record. I'm talking about if they end up with a bad record where they can draft a QB without having to trade up for one.
Once more, I was responding to "play at an MVP level and lead us to a 10-6 record at worst"
 

darefugee

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Though I like, and appreciate the analogy, it is still subjective.

What I might consider a tasteful nude photoshoot, a born again may consider hardcore porn.
Indeed, but the title of the thread asks me for my subjective opinion, so there it is.
 

Mach2

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Indeed, but the title of the thread asks me for my subjective opinion, so there it is.
I agree.

My point was more to the the effect that not everyone will see it the same. Of course, the only opinions that matter, are Griers, and the coaching staff's.
 

phinfan40353

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Look at the QBs of the final four teams.......Brees, Mahomes, Brady, and Goff. Goff doesnt belong with the other three but he works in the best offensive system in the league. Their defenses by total defense:

New Orleans 14
Los Angeles 19
New England 21
Kansas City 31

Explain that. I am not completely ignoring defense but the bread is buttered with the QB now.
I have already agreed that the QB has not changed in the equation. He is the most important piece

I would be cautious with calling Mahomes "elite". Andy Reid is one of the better QB tutors in the game. Revisit Michael Vicks resurgent year with the Eagles.

Mahomes has talent, Reid tapped into that kids ability and custom built an offense for him. That's what great coaches do. They marry talent with a system.

And exactly what Super Bowl did Mahomes play in?

Goeff had an elite D around him. Proving my point.

However he ran into the two GOATs. McVey and Goeff were not going to win that Super Bowl. The score doesn't reflect it, but they were outclassed.

And to add to the Defense influence...the Rams lost because NE took away the running game. Goeff was exposed and made to win the game. Old school coaching to defeat a young QB. Same formula that has always been there.

New faces, same lessons.

Many of these "offense wins championships" arguments are based on stats. True Defense is about scheming and taking away what the opponent's offense needs to do at the core. Play action is still a QB's best friend. Without it he is one dimensional and very predictable.

He might score 7 TDs in a game . But if he doesn't score the game winning TD, it's for nothing. A good defensive scheme takes away what you do best at the precise moment you need it to work.

You can surrender 40 points, but if youve saved a defensive play call or scheme that shuts down the QBs tendencies on the final drive, he loses. Some D's dominate and entire game. Some D's keep the game close and save the right calls until the last when the Offense can't adjust. The man in the booth can be a great D Coordinator by letting you think you've won the entire game only to take it away at the last. Sometimes, that IS the scheme.

Why did you think KC purged their entire Day in one season? Apparently Mahomes can't do it all by himself. Even Brady can play DE.

QB, D and Running Game. The equation hasn't changed.

Don't worry about stats. Look at the results. For as much Offense as we are seeing now, it is still the team who's D can stop the other at the critical moment that matters.

Don't quote stats and trends, look at results.
 

Rowdy1972

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I have already agreed that the QB has not changed in the equation. He is the most important piece

I would be cautious with calling Mahomes "elite". Andy Reid is one of the better QB tutors in the game. Revisit Michael Vicks resurgent year with the Eagles.

Mahomes has talent, Reid tapped into that kids ability and custom built an offense for him. That's what great coaches do. They marry talent with a system.

And exactly what Super Bowl did Mahomes play in?

Goeff had an elite D around him. Proving my point.

However he ran into the two GOATs. McVey and Goeff were not going to win that Super Bowl. The score doesn't reflect it, but they were outclassed.

And to add to the Defense influence...the Rams lost because NE took away the running game. Goeff was exposed and made to win the game. Old school coaching to defeat a young QB. Same formula that has always been there.

New faces, same lessons.

Many of these "offense wins championships" arguments are based on stats. True Defense is about scheming and taking away what the opponent's offense needs to do at the core. Play action is still a QB's best friend. Without it he is one dimensional and very predictable.

He might score 7 TDs in a game . But if he doesn't score the game winning TD, it's for nothing. A good defensive scheme takes away what you do best at the precise moment you need it to work.

You can surrender 40 points, but if youve saved a defensive play call or scheme that shuts down the QBs tendencies on the final drive, he loses. Some D's dominate and entire game. Some D's keep the game close and save the right calls until the last when the Offense can't adjust. The man in the booth can be a great D Coordinator by letting you think you've won the entire game only to take it away at the last. Sometimes, that IS the scheme.

Why did you think KC purged their entire Day in one season? Apparently Mahomes can't do it all by himself. Even Brady can play DE.

QB, D and Running Game. The equation hasn't changed.

Don't worry about stats. Look at the results. For as much Offense as we are seeing now, it is still the team who's D can stop the other at the critical moment that matters.

Don't quote stats and trends, look at results.
My point was that not one of the teams that played in the AFC or NFC championship had a top 15 defense last year. All of those teams had great offenses. Below average defenses. Those defenses may have helped them win a game in the playoffs but they didnt get them there. Thats for sure.

Mahomes not elite? Stop it. He just carried the 31st ranked defense to AFC championship game and would have been the Super Bowl had he not gotten Brady'ed in Overtime.
 

Mach2

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My point was that not one of the teams that played in the AFC or NFC championship had a top 15 defense last year. All of those teams had great offenses. Below average defenses. Those defenses may have helped them win a game in the playoffs but they didnt get them there. Thats for sure.

Mahomes not elite? Stop it. He just carried the 31st ranked defense to AFC championship game and would have been the Super Bowl had he not gotten Brady'ed in Overtime.
While Mahomes impressed the hell out of me last season, 1 year does not an "elite" QB make.

The odds are surely in his favor, but lets give him another year, or two before we hang that moniker around his neck.
 

Rowdy1972

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While Mahomes impressed the hell out of me last season, 1 year does not an "elite" QB make.

The odds are surely in his favor, but lets give him another year, or two before we hang that moniker around his neck.
Umm I think I will go ahead and deem him a top 3 QB in the league. I dont need anymore evidence than one of the top 3 seasons by an NFL QB ever.
 
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