Hyde says :

[Dolfan02]

Originally posted by RikWriter

Remember Tampa Bay? Everyone kept saying "Dungy's a good coach, it's just the players..."
And then Gruden came in and made those same players into a potential dynasty.
It's the coaching. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

This is EXACTLY what I've said many times before on some threads, and some people were quick to respond with "you don't know what you're talking about". How naive. A successful team is comprised 50/50 of great players and great coaching. We have great players with a mediocre head coach. Tampa Bay proved to us what step we need to take.

 

[Rick 1966]

Originally posted by phinphan


I have to admit, I dodn't see the postgame interviews. What did they say?

Several players were commenting on how they weren't prepared for the changes the Texans had made in their offense. Others commented that they had taken the team too lightly and the ones that didn't admit that kept saying how they couldn't beat anyone if they played like that, not giving Houston credit. They took them lightly, saw them as a sure win, and let their concentration get away from them. And mindset, concentration and mental preparation are the jobs of the coaching staff.

 

[Muck]

Tampa Bay always had the defense to win it all. It's always been stout. But Gruden didn't come in and just take the same offensive players to the SB. He went out and got Keenan McCardell and Joe Juravicious. He got rid of 180 lb Warrick Dunn and brought in Michael Pittman. He got Ken Dilger and Ricky Dudley. He moved Kenyatta Walker over to RT and brought in Roman Oben to play the left side. He ended the string of three consecutive horrible offensive coordinators and installed his proven and effective system.

And even after all that and playing a weak schedule, that offense did not get on track until very late in the regular season. Luckily they had that defense to prevent them from playing from behind (not their strongsuit).

Gruden is a fantastic coach. But to imply that he just waltzed in here with the same team and took them all the way is negligent. Heck, Tony Dungy was one botched referee's call away from the Super Bowl in 1999. Remember that??

 

[Dolfan02]

Originally posted by Muck
Tampa Bay always had the defense to win it all. It's always been stout. But Gruden didn't come in and just take the same offensive players to the SB. He went out and got Keenan McCardell and Joe Juravicious. He got rid of 180 lb Warrick Dunn and brought in Michael Pittman. He got Ken Dilger and Ricky Dudley. He moved Kenyatta Walker over to RT and brought in Roman Oben to play the left side. He ended the string of three consecutive horrible offensive coordinators and installed his proven and effective system.

All you've done is expand my exact point. Gruden came in and was able to see the voids on Tampa's team, something Dungy couldn't see for himself. Thus HE brought the few necessary players on offense. It was HIS vision and changes to the offense built on a team with outstanding defensive great players already there, then his "cover 2" defense installation sealed it. I never suggested Gruden just walked in and laid flat on his back as his team won the SB. My point is that he was able to recognize the cancers of a potential great team and make the necessary improvements. Something only a great coach can do. I'm not taking anything away from Dungy he's a good coach but he couldn't do it.

And even after all that and playing a weak schedule, that offense did not get on track until very late in the regular season. Luckily they had that defense to prevent them from playing from behind (not their strongsuit).

They started the season 5-1. Then went 9-2. Seems like to me they were on track since the beginning. Even defeating teams like the Packers, Falcons, and Vikings.

 

[XoPhinsoX]

Originally posted by RikWriter


The bad news is, our coaching staff has shown no indication they can put those adjustments into affect.

Our coaching staff didn't take bad angles, our coaching staff didn't miss the tackles, our coaching staff did not have anything to do with NOT getting any kind of pressure on the QB, the coaching staff didn't drop a possible INT, the coaching staff didn't play like crap on ST. We did what we said we were going to do, and that was blitz more, which we did.

 

[XoPhinsoX]

Originally posted by Dolfan02


All you've done is expand my exact point. Gruden came in and was able to see the voids on Tampa's team, something Dungy couldn't see for himself. Thus HE brought the few necessary players on offense. It was HIS vision and changes to the offense built on a team with outstanding defensive great players already there, then his "cover 2" defense installation sealed it. I never suggested Gruden just walked in and laid flat on his back as his team won the SB. My point is that he was able to recognize the cancers of a potential great team and make the necessary improvements. Something only a great coach can do. I'm not taking anything away from Dungy he's a good coach but he couldn't do it.



They started the season 5-1. Then went 9-2. Seems like to me they were on track since the beginning. Even defeating teams like the Packers, Falcons, and Vikings. [/B]

Cause their D was dominate. They could score 14 points and still win.

 

[Dolfan02]

Originally posted by XoPhinsoX


Cause their D was dominate. They could score 14 points and still win.

Uhhh... try 25, 26, 35, and 21 points to win their first four games. Then 38 points to win their 6th game. Sounds like good offense to me.

 

[Muck]

Originally posted by Dolfan02
All you've done is expand my exact point. Gruden came in and was able to see the voids on Tampa's team, something Dungy couldn't see for himself. Thus HE brought the few necessary players on offense. It was HIS vision and changes to the offense built on a team with outstanding defensive great players already there, then his "cover 2" defense installation sealed it. I never suggested Gruden just walked in and laid flat on his back as his team won the SB. My point is that he was able to recognize the cancers of a potential great team and make the necessary improvements. Something only a great coach can do. I'm not taking anything away from Dungy he's a good coach but he couldn't do it.

What are you talking about?? I wasn't even responding to you. I was responding to the person who implied that Gruden took the same players Dungy had and made them a potential dynasty. Regardless, I don't see anything in your initial response to the same quote that correlates with my post. I didn't expand on anything.

They started the season 5-1. Then went 9-2. Seems like to me they were on track since the beginning. Even defeating teams like the Packers, Falcons, and Vikings.

So because they started 9-2 automatically means their offense was on track?? Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about here. As I stated above, their offense did not get on track until late in the season. The offensive line was just that....offensive. That defense held the fort in the meanwhile. And they usually struggled to score TDs. Usually didn't reach the endzone until late in the 3rd or early in the 4th.

They beat the Packers at home with 246 yards total offense. Close game until late in the 4th.

They beat Minnesota at home facing one of the league's worst defenses and a QB who struggled, throwing more INTs than TDs last year despite the league's #1 rushing attack.

They beat Cincy. They beat a bad Baltimore team. They narrowly escaped Carolina. They beat a floundering Cleveland. They got killed in Philly. They got beat by the Saints at home.

They weren't good early on. The D did it's job. Then the offense caught on.

 

[Muck]

Originally posted by Dolfan02
Uhhh... try 25, 26, 35, and 21 points to win their first four games. Then 38 points to win their 6th game. Sounds like good offense to me.

20 at home against the Saints (28th ranked D)....which was a LOSS

16 points against Baltimore (Defense scored 9 points). (22nd ranked D)

35 against Cincinnatti (no explanation necessary). But the D gets a TD.

19 at home against the Rams, who started 0-5 (Defense scores TD). Defense also forces a TO to give offense the ball on the 1 for another TD. So the D essentially scores 14 of the 26 points.

13 points at home on Atlanta (23rd ranked D). Defense scores another TD.

38 points at home vs Vikings..in their 7TH WIN (you skipped the 12-9 FG fest at Carolina). Good point total against the league's 26th ranked D.

 

[XoPhinsoX]

Originally posted by Dolfan02


Uhhh... try 25, 26, 35, and 21 points to win their first four games. Then 38 points to win their 6th game. Sounds like good offense to me.

We were averaging 30 points a game as well before Fiedler went down..plus I wasn't saying they couldn't score more then 14..I was just making an example that they don't HAVE to score 21+ a game cause their D is dominant.

 

[M-REAL]

All during the offseason, most of us here agreed that this team needs HELLFIRE from Wan to send them out there with killing instinct and to dominate with this Defense. So far, yet wayyy too early to tell, that it's still the same old song from the C. staff. Hyde is right, Wan needs to get really pissed off, and not from the penalties that were made, but from a passion standpoint instead.:fire: :fire: :yell: :D

 

[Muck]

SOMETHING needs to happen.

 

[rickykicks@$$]

Well I would like to say a team with a new head coach and in a second year franchise came into our house and beat us bottom line.
As for the Bucs the bottom line is as defending SB champions they went into Phily and shut them out. While our coach is standing on the sideline holding his head, looking confused, and wondering why we lost and got penalized out the wazoo, Gruden was storming up and down the sidelines pumping his fist and grining from ear to ear while his team tore it up. Is it just me or does anyone else see the difference here?

I know some do, but the ones that argue that it's not the coaching staff....Let me tell you this you can take a gun and lay it on a table as long as that gun is on the table it's pretty much worthless,on the other hand if you pick up the gun and aim at a target squeez the trigger it becomes quite deadly. The team or (players) are the gun and right now they are just laying on the table. I am not a pro football player but I have played many years of football from Pop warner
threw college and coaching is IMO, the problem with this team.

I know some are loyal to Dave and thats ok, it's your right. I hope I dont offend you. I feel I see things by the way the team performs that would lead me to belive it's coaching.

 

[CRAZYDOLFAN305]

Originally posted by RikWriter


The bad news is, our coaching staff has shown no indication they can put those adjustments into affect.

I am putting you in charge of finding us a new coaching staff, since you are so good at analyzing our current staff..!!

 

[Rick 1966]

Originally posted by CRAZYDOLFAN305


I am putting you in charge of finding us a new coaching staff, since you are so good at analyzing our current staff..!!

That's simple.
Fire Wanny and Bates now, along with the special teams coach.
Put Norv in as the interim head coach, promote from within to fill the other two positions.
Tell all of them that they have the rest of the season to win those jobs permanently.
If they can't do the job, there are a lot of other fish in the sea in the offseason. Saban, Willingham, lots of now-no-name assistants who might make great head coaches, etc...