I said it before but it bares repeating after today.

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by PhishyPhishy, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. PhishyPhishy

    PhishyPhishy Well-Known Member

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    Draft Shaq Griffin! Don't care when don't care where just get it done. Work ethic to the max and making all other combine participants look silly. Fastest lb 40 time ever are you kidding me! 20 reps on the bench! Tannenbaum go get us this kid!
     
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  2. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Not invited to combine because he on tape is lower than prospect # 200, work out warrior amazes the world and now he' a must Get? Speed and athleticism is great, and we desperately need it on D, but now this guy proves at combine what most people already knew and he' a must get?

    Maybe a late round flier, don' get sucked into eye raising combine performance, look at his performance, his performance didn' get him invited initially.

    Vernon Gholston says there' more to linebacking in the NFL than just speed and strength.

    Also, his 2nd forty, while still fast was appallingly lower than his first run. How many others say such a huge drop from initial forty time? That' a res flag to me as well, much prefer getting a legit talent like Edmunds, Smith, Esch or Leonard imho.
     
  3. PhishyPhishy

    PhishyPhishy Well-Known Member

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    Have you watched any of his tape. I'll wait we can revisit youre idiotic post once your done.
     
  4. PhishyPhishy

    PhishyPhishy Well-Known Member

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    His late invitation has nothing to do with his on the field ability and everything to do with predjudice and ignorance from the NFL. Very glad they fixed the oversight as it is very clear that this kid belongs.
     
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  5. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Ah you can't debate without issuing childish insults. Pretty sure there' not much in my post that was idiotic, go ahead and get all googly eyed for a workout warrior. I have seen some games, I am no guru but being a 4 year college athlete I know talent when I see it, he is gifted as an athlete and makes plays in his weak conference, and made some wow plays in big games too, but I've seen a lot of inconsistency and still view him as a late round selection fue to his athletic gifts. Should make a solid special seamer and 2 deep depth imo.
     
  6. PhishyPhishy

    PhishyPhishy Well-Known Member

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    He will be a starter in this league. But you do you, your doubt only makes him stronger.
     
  7. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Right, so your lack of doubt does something for him as well, some telekinesis stuff right there.

    He struggles disengaging blocks which for an ILB is a killer and all the speed in the world can't make up for that weakness.

    I love that he is courageous and tough, and I hope he does prove the world and me wrong too for his sake! I have mad respect for him, but I call it like I see it and to me he's a depth guy who may excel on specials coverage. And there's nothing wrong with that he may carve out a nice career that way.

    I'd be shocked if he's drafted before middle of the 5th round, although there are GM's who love athletes and may take a chance sooner and for his sake I would be happy for him....but I just don' see him being a productive player nor a starter, I see depth and specials.

    You are entitled to your opinion as I am too, obviously you'e a big fan of his and that's cool.

    Now his teammate Hughes he's a starter in this league for sure imo.
     
  8. ozman

    ozman Rookie Hammered

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    He’s two time defensive player of the year. MVP of bowl game. What tape are you watching. I’d draft him in second rd and never look back.
     
  9. Oraclepz

    Oraclepz Seasoned Veteran

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    Weak conference? stop talking about things you don't know than man really. His team gave Auburn the business and that WEAK conference is 3-0 in BCS bowl games.. put some respeck on it... just sayin
     
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  10. Hoot

    Hoot Keeper of the Old Code Finheaven VIP

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    I would like to see him in a Fins uniform. Solid player with a ton of heart and leadership to boot.
     
  11. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Have you ever heard of John Alston, the last LB to run a 4.4 forty? Apparently in 2003, neither have I, it takes more than speed and strength to play LB in NFL.

    Tell me I'm wrong about inconsistency and struggling to disengage blockers. When he' clean he does make wow plays, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that before, but in big boy league he will be engaged with the big uglies.

    Y'll can hate and mock all you want it doesn' bother me, I know what I see and he' depth and specials to me, heck I'd be up like I said in first post to take a late round flier on him....

    No way would anyone in their right mind would use a 2nd on him, that' straight buffoonery and not using value!
     
  12. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Yes UCF did beat Auburn and they had a great year, but come on man really you think the AAC is a powerhouse conference, let' be real! Yes they went undefeated and beat Auburn and they get props for that but you really going to believe it' a power conference? I know USF is in that conference and you have pride and love for your team, but let' be real, is it known as a top tier conference?

    I shouldn't have said weak, but by no means would any team in AAC be a powerhouse on any of the powerhouse conferences. I'm just being real man.

    There definitely good players in that conference, ones I really like, but as a whole those teams wouldn'
    Have been highly ranked in the SEC, ACC, BIG 10 or the other power 5 conferences. Am I off base, if I am educate me.
     
  13. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    What are you talking about? He was at the combine.
     
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  14. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    I'm rooting for Shaquem to succeed and he would look great in an aqua jersey. For all the obstacles the kid has overcome, there is a chance that he can really help to build great team spirit and pride. Maybe he will make it and maybe he won't, but there is a solid chance that when given the chance this kid will deliver. I can see many NFL owners encouraging their GMs to give him strong consideration. He is potentially good for business and would be a source of inspiration for people around the world. People love someone who has overcome great odds. Little downside and great upside.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  15. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    I'm of the opinion that there's middle ground here.

    Shaquem isn't just a workout warrior like Gholston. He's more than that. If that is genuinely your opinion, I'd recommend that you look harder.

    And yes, he struggles disengaging from blocks. Finding his role in the NFL isn't easy; he seems suited for a hybrid LB/Safety role. What *concerns* me is that one of the teams who could decidedly put him in that role and use him successfully plays in the AFC East and just lost the Super Bowl.

    Second round? No. But all it takes is one team to say "That kid is special, and I want him now." I would bet a decent amount that he doesn't make it past Seattle in the fourth.
     
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  16. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    I get that you like the kid, but do not go overdrafting him in the process. He's not a 2nd rder. 4-5 rd. is where his value is. I like the kid and I see him making a team, initially, on ST. Eventually he may be able to break into a starter position. His hand is the only thing I see as an impediment, if it is even that. One could make the argument that it may make it more difficult to engage on tackles. But he has been living with it his whole life and he has played at a high level, so may be you can dismiss that argument. You just do not find many guys at the LB position that run a 4.38. He is a little undersized at the 6'0" 227, but in this days league with all the passing, he, in my estimation, would be perfect as a 5th defender in the nickel. There is no need to bring in another DB because he can fill that role. He can play off the ball. He can play on the edge. He can move out to the slot. He can play safety. Just my two cents worth.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  17. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    If you read the entire comment i stated he wasn' invited initially.

    I'e also stated several times in rooting for him and hopes he proves me wrong, but personally I don' see him more than depth and specials.
     
  18. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    No. If you read your comment and I qoute, "Not invited to combine because he on tape is lower than prospect # 200, work out warrior amazes the world and now he' a must Get?". Nowhere do you say initially.
     
  19. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Keep reading the post bro, towards end of 2nd paragraph....of course he was at combine we all watched him and saw that explosive performance, I already saw that he was explosive and wasn' stunned by his performance, well maybe the 4.38 but he' certainly 4.5 speed when you watch him.

    I hope he overcomes and does become a player with his arm issue but he does struggle with disengaging and I don' feel as I'm off base with that opinion. Especially considering the talent level he played agai st for most part. Again, I hope he is better than I think, I've been wrong before and I have been right before in my evaluation of players. I hope he become a player, but I feel he may be just a work out warrior who may be just a depth guy and special teamer.
     
  20. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    And as a later round selection that's not a bad thing being depth and specials, how many players will be out of the league in a few years that go top 100?

    Maybe saying he wasn' top 200 was off, but I believe they brought around 180 to combine, am I off on That? I' open to being educated.
     
  21. BlueUndertow

    BlueUndertow Well-Known Member

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    He played pretty well when matched up against "real" competition.

    Shaquem Griffin's school, Central Florida, went 13-0 in 2017. Here are the last three games of his last season all against ranked opponents:

    11/24/17 Win vs South Florida (AP Ranked #22) - 49-22 (Griffin 9 tackles, 0.5 sacks, 1 PD)
    12/2/17 Win vs Memphis (AP Ranked #17) - 62-55 (Griffin 6 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 2 sacks, 1 PD, 1 fumble recovery)
    1/1/18 (Peach Bowl) Win vs Auburn (AP Ranked #7) - 34-27 (Griffin 12 tackles, 3.5 tackles for loss, 1.5 sacks)

    Not bad for a team playing in a weak conference.

    I'm not saying draft him and obviously the one handed thing is the weird "red flag"... I was actually wondering if he can get interceptions so I checked and he's actually got 3 interceptions in his last 3 years.
     
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  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    I question your instincts to identify instincts in a football player.jmo.

    Griffin is smart as hell on the field, he will survey the offense, figure out what their trying to do, then the playmaking ability commences, with explosive speed to the ball.

    As a pass rusher he is unique, hi level skills in this Dept..

    There are linebackers who wait for the action to come to them, like a Malik Jefferson, and there are linebackers that initiate disruption, Griffin is the latter.

    Griffin has what I call counter athleticism, the last time I saw it this good in a player it was in the honey badger and joe Schobert, this athletic ability allows his body to quickly counter any block and still find himself at the ball.

    Before all this started I pegged him as a star at the next level, I feel confident about that eval even more.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    even though you like him your underrating him imo.
    I’ll bet money he doesn’t reach the 4th, doesn’t deserve to reach the 4th...
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    He was the best player on the field and dominated the game..
     
  25. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I would love to see him on Miami. Love his story, his work ethic and dedication. I think, at the very least, he'd contribute early on with special teams. Most scouting reports have him 5th round or later so it will be interesting to see if he is indeed drafted. I hope so.
     
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  26. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    DJ I know he makes plays, but he makes next to none while engaged with blocking and I look for LB'ers abilities to disengage, especially ILB'ers...he struggles with it which is a fact. Tell me how often does an inside backer get no engagement with big offensive lineman?

    Until he proves he can do it he won't be in base defense...maybe some nickel defense, but he's a liability against the run, and imho until he fixes that my instincts and understanding of the game tells me he's depth and specials. He won't be roaming with out blockers as an LIB in the NFL.

    Not sure I care what you think of my recognition skills, but my feeling is that he won't make an impact the way you think he will until he proves he can fight through blocks, disengage and let his extreme athleticism and plus instincts take over.

    I haven't said he was terrible or doesn't make plays.....he does, a lot, with out engagement from blocking. That's my concern for this particular extraordinary football player, and all other inside backers no matter their athletic ability if they can't do it, disengage, they will not make the impact plays, because they won't be trusted to make plays which leads to my prognosis of him being depth and specials due to his athletic abilities and his vision.
     
  27. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Saying that Shaquem Griffin doesn't have "top 200 tape" automatically dismisses you from any conversation involving him. Because that is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever seen regarding him as a player.

    He wasn't invited to the combine because of his hand. Period. If you want to bring level of competition into the equation, why not mention players like Josh Allen or Marcus Davenport who played significantly weaker competition than UCF did all year.

    I'm doubting you actually watched much Shaquem Griffin tape, or recognized the impact he had on the team in the last two years, both in terms of defensive production and leadership. Saying his tape is not in the top 200 is quite possibly one of the worst draft takes that I've seen in my entire life.

    Roquan Smith also has problems disengaging from blockers, but it's frequently brought up that his speed will make it hard for blockers to get a hand on him. Which, in the same light, is the exact same argument that should be made for Shaquem Griffin because he routinely does beat blockers with his speed, IE his high number of sacks and TFL.

    It's cool though, for all the scouts who claim he's a late-round or undrafted player, there are just as many saying he should be a 3rd-4th round selection.

    Might want to open your eyes a little bit, though. Shaquem might nub you in the face on his way to NFL stardom.
     
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  28. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Again you are completely entitled to your opinion, your opinion differs from mine.

    I haven't bashed him (other than maybe calling him a workout warrior) so I don't really understand all the backhanded snarky responses but I get it, y'all are infatuated with him due to his impediment and it is a wonderful feel good story to root for an under dog.

    Re-read my posts fully and you'll see over and over where I got respect for him, hope he makes it, hope he proves me wrong and how he does make plays....some really respected posters in here showing over and over again that you only read what you want to read and addresing a negative comment in a whole post...and jump on a poster who doesn't share your opinion...its quite ignorant. It's all good tho, I do not share your opinion that he's a star in the making....

    But when the day cones that he does, I'm a humble motha****a and I will admit that I didn' see it, that doesn't bother me...i just see him as a very athletic and instinctualt guy with a glaring weakness that will prevent him from making the impact you all think he will. God forbid someone sees something different than you do lol!
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  29. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Look just 7 post above your post as I stated maybe #200 was off, but with 180 participants at combine he wasn't initially invited....again maybe he' closer to #150 but again he is widely been considered a late round pick and some had said prior to combine a possible UDFA...so is #200 really that off based???!!!!
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    I meant no disrespect when I said that, I apologize if it came off that way, I understand your point..but check this out, Roquon Smith is a fine linebacker prospect, who struggles to take on blocks and disengage..he's still going top 20.

    Griffin did not play on the inside unless he was blitzing the gaps, he's a space player who can drop with good technique, or rush the passer, cover the flat with explosive speed or drop and cover the tight end..He's an off the ball linebacker with hi end pass rush skills..Not a mike.

    I understand there might be some issues with tackling and making an Int when it presents itself, but the hi end instincts and versatility, alongside elite speed and hunger, combined with impact in the locker room and teammates, give him a 2nd day grade imo..I will live with a few missed tackles because I know he knows how to get his body into position to make plays, He's a disrupter of offense, an iniatiater if you will..

    lets remember, this kid didn't start til later in his college career, just started rushing the passer in his last, but man, the instincts are hi-level stuff, so he's gonna learn the NFL game quickly, and he will adjust..and remember, he has a trait that only a few have, and thats what I call counter athleticism, which is the ability to react spontaneously to an offensive players move to escape..I know it when I see and it always translates..

    sometimes certain players are worth the risk..
     
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  31. cullenbigcstill

    cullenbigcstill FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    DJ I am going to watch more of his tape with relation to what you'e said. I am a bit stubborn so I will come back to this. I do hope he makes it cuz he' be such an inspiration. I don' necessarily judge him on the missed tackles as I do with disengaging. I am no self proclaimed expert or draft guru but as a former...20 years ago...4 year college athlete I do know difference between athlete and a player.

    In the games I had seen where he made wow plays, and a bunch at that, there was clean release with no blocking near him, he was ridiculously left alone in space....if I coached against him I would have gamepland to always engage him....anyways I will check him out some more, but I am really biased in my interpretation of linebackers ability to block shed, if they struggle with it I very usually tend to write them off in my opinion.

    Some mentioned nickel lb/s hybrid, I could see him do well in that role but he' need more seasoning and better disengagement but I could imagine him to be developed into that role down the line and be effective,but he better be drafted with big DL in front of him imho.

    I do hope he becomes a player and inspires people and give them courage to follow in his foot steps, and I understand why he has such a following and I think that' awesome, but again my stubbornnss to the position is big on disengagement, vision and pursuit angles...which he has vision and pursuit without a doubt....and would definitely take a 6th on it, even a trade up to the 5th if still there.
     
  32. gunn34

    gunn34 Pro Bowler

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    I see him as a 4th or 5th round talent. He'll be playing on Sundays.
     
  33. Perfect23

    Perfect23 A True Fan

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    I think he last a couple of rounds in the draft, but yea I do like Shaq Griffen as well.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    you can see all you need to see against Auburn.. the entire skillset is on display against hi level comp..his impact on the game goes right down to the last play even though he isn’t credited for anything except a pressure.
     
  35. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yep, I was clamoring for them to pressure Auburn on that last drive and they finally dialed it up and it forced an INT, thanks in much part to Griffin's ability to quickly get to the QB.
     
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  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    as stated, he just learned this year hot to rush the QB..ceiling is high..
     
  37. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    No he didn't. He had more sacks last year than he did this year.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    On point there..

    Check this out courtesy of Ck

    Most efficient pass either in college football

    In terms of pass rush efficiency....here's what I have:

    SHAQUEM GRIFFIN UCF 21.6%
    BRIAN WOMAC Rice 21.3%
    MARCUS DAVENPORT UTSA 20.3%
    JEFF HOLLAND Auburn 19.5%
    EASY ANYAMA Texas St 18.1%
    LORENZO CARTER Georgia 17.7%
    JUSTIN LAWLER SMU 16.8%
    JA'VON ROLLAND-JONES Arkansas St 16.7%
    ARDEN KEY LSU 16.5%
    SAM HUBBARD Ohio State 16.3%
    SHAREEF WHITE Memphis 15.9%
    OLASUNKANMI ADENIYI Toledo 15.8%
    JOE OSTMAN Central Michigan 15.7%
    ANTHONY WINBUSH Ball St 15.4%
    AUSTIN PAULHUS Nevada 14.9%
    MARCUS WILLIAMSON Coastal Carolina 14.9%
    MAT BOESEN TCU 14.8%
    COREY THOMPSON LSU 14.8%
    BRADLEY CHUBB NC St 14.7%
    TOBENNA OKEKE Fresno St 14.6%
    UCHENNA NWOSU USC 14.5%
    DEANDRE' MILLER Arizona 14.4%
    DA'SEAN DOWNEY UMass 14.0%
    JACOB MARTIN Temple 13.7%
    GARRET DOOLEY Wisconsin 13.7%
    PETER KALAMBAYI Stanford 13.6%
    BUNMI ROTIMI Old Dominion 13.3%
    FRANKIE LUVU Washington St 13.2%
    NICK INTERNICOLA FAU 13.2%
    MEFFY KOLOAMATANGI Hawaii 13.1%
    OGBONNIA OKORONKWO Oklahoma 13.0%
    KEMOKO TURAY Rutgers 12.9%
    DEREK MCCARTNEY Colorado 12.8%
    MIKE LOVE USF 12.6%
    CHAD THOMAS Miami 12.6%
    SETH CALLOWAY Troy 12.5%
    SHARIF FINCH Temple 12.5%
    HAROLD LANDRY Boston College 12.4%
    MARQUIS HAYNES Ole Miss 12.4%
    DWAYNE EUGENE Arkansas 12.2%
    DUKE EJIOFOR Wake Forest 12.0%
    EVAN COLORITO Colorado St 11.8%
    TREVON YOUNG Louisville 11.8%
    MIKE TYLER Stanford 11.7%
    DANTE SAWYER South Carolina 11.7%
    MARCELL FRAZIER Missouri 11.7%
    KIANTE ANDERSON East Carolina 11.6%
    STODY BRADLEY NMSU 11.6%
    DANNY EZECHUKWU Purdue 11.6%
    JIMMIE GIPSON South Alabama 11.3%
    TRENT HARRIS Miami 11.0%
    D.J. PALMORE Navy 11.0%
    ANTONIO SIMMONS Georgia Tech 10.8%
    RASHAAD TOWNES Appalachian St 10.7%
    JALYN HOLMES Ohio State 10.6%
    ALEX AUKERMAN Army 10.6%
    LEONARD HAZEWOOD Idaho 10.6%
    KYLIE FITTS Utah 10.5%
    JEREMY SMITH Tulsa 10.3%
    DAVIN BELLAMY Georgia 10.3%
    MARQUES MOORE Kent St 10.2%
    LUKE JACKSON Tulane 10.2%
    DEMONE HARRIS Buffalo 9.7%
    WENDELL DUNN Wake Forest 9.6%
    DELDRICK CANTY La Tech 9.6%
    TREV MILLER Louisiana 9.6%
    JOSH SWEAT Florida St 9.4%
    XAVIER THIGPEN Southern Miss 9.2%
    JOSHUA WHEELER North Texas 9.1%
    DAVON DURANT Marshall 9.0%
    JAMES HEARNS Louisville 8.8%
    ALANI LATU Arizona St 8.7%
    SHAQ JONES UAB 8.5%
    DAVID MANOA Hawaii 8.3%
    JONAH MOI Oregon 8.0%
    AIKEEM COLEMAN Idaho 8.0%
    JACOB PUGH Florida St 8.0%
    JOE SANDERS Northern Ill 8.0%
    GREG GOOCH Indiana 7.9%
    CALEB TUCKER Louisiana-Monroe 7.8%
    FINESSE MIDDLETON South Alabama 7.7%
    RUSSELL WILLIAMS Hawaii 7.5%
    SHA-KI HOLINES UMass 7.5%
    DORANCE ARMSTRONG Kansas 7.5%
    NEWTON SALISBURY FIU 7.4%
    JARRETT JOHNSON Texas A&M 7.4%
    JORDAN HAROLD Missouri 7.2%
    AUSTIN ROBINSON Houston 7.1%
    DEON'TAE MOORE Akron 7.1%
    CHANDLER BURKETT Maryland 7.1%
    JAY HENDERSON San Diego 7.0%
    JAHMAL JONES Middle Tenn 7.0%
    ANDREW TRUMBETTI Notre Dame 6.9%
    DERIK OVERSTREET WKU 6.9%
    JARVIS JEFFRIES Louisiana 6.8%
    TANNER WOOD Kansas St 6.8%
    TRALUND WEBBER Oklahoma St 6.7%
    ROBERT STANLEY Fresno St 6.6%
    KEVIN ROBBINS Ohio 6.6%
    KENTAVIUS STREET NC St 6.5%
    ZACH DUNCAN Charlotte 6.4%
    JULIAN JACKSON UTEP 6.4%
    CONNOR O'BRIEN Washington 6.3%
    BRIAN NANCE Baylor 6.0%
    JESSE BRUBAKER Tulsa 6.0%
    ZACH QUINN Toledo 6.0%
    DAJAUN DRENNON North Carolina 5.9%
    J.D. WAGGONER Iowa St 5.9%
    MARK FINAU UNLV 5.8%
    TRENT SMART Ohio 5.5%
    MASON GENTRY SMU 5.1%
    BLAKE KELLER Marshall 5.0%
    NAASHON HUGHES Texas 5.0%
    KESHUN FREEMAN Georgia Tech 4.9%
    AUSTIN LARKIN Purdue 3.8
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Perennial All-Pro

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    sorry I meant pass rush efficiency, not ''either''...spell check on my phone.

    how bout that Griffin..kid has special traits.

    don't sleep on this kid, he's gonna be better than most everyone predicts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  40. PhishyPhishy

    PhishyPhishy Well-Known Member

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    Never mind stay far far away from Miami Griffin. Where ever you land I will follow. I don't want to see your career ruined by this embarrassment of a franchise.
     

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