Interesting Dolphins Superbowl stat

[royalshank]

Valid debate...of course they had Minnesota and Washington shutout at the half...and the Washington score was a freak bobble by our kicker.

Dallas outclassed us in Superbowl 6 for the whole game.

Super Bowl 17 we had no QB.

Super Bowl 19 we were beaten by the greatest Niner team in history and they were simply a far more complete team than we were.

I think the only significance you can take away from the five Superbowls is that we got beaten by superior teams 3 times.

This. Nothing less, nothing more.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Yeah, QB was surely one area WASH was better. A tad of irony there, considering Theismann was drafted by MIA.

Interesting anecdote that some may not know, but Joe Theismann‘s last name was actually pronounced ”thees-mann”, not “thighs-mann” as it has been widely pronounced for 50 years now.

He agreed to go along with the new pronunciation as part of a Heisman Trophy campaign while at Notre Dame.

The reason he eventually agreed to go along with the change was because his german grandmother advised that the correct pronunciation is actually “TICE-mann”. So she gave Joe her blessing on the change because “Thighs-mann” was closer to the correct pronunciation.

I never knew any of that until quite a while after Joe had retired.

Had Theismann signed with Miami, I wonder if they would have drafted Marino. It may have been Theismann who followed Griese in Miami. Also, if Woodley had fared better in the super bowl, I wonder the same thing.

I always felt bad for Woodley. He had played very well in the postseason win over San Diego two weeks prior and, at that time was considered a young, ascending talent. After the super bowl, that all changed.

Looking back, I'm not sure any adjustments would have worked against San Francisco. Shula did counter with an additional offensive lineman when Walsh put in seven corners, or six. Whatever it was. But then Miami only ran the ball nine times. Credit Walsh there. The Dolphins might have put up 40 points the way Marino was playing at the start of the game. Hard to imagine, but Miami led 10-7 and were looking unstoppable early on.

This narrative is definitely an interesting. But look at Sean McVay and Andy Reid. Both are considered offensive guru's and yet neither of their teams scored an offensive touchdown in the past few super bowls. And we're talking about an ERA when nobody blinks when a quarterback puts up 400 yards, or when two teams combine for 1,000 yards.

 

[EJay]

Had Theismann signed with Miami, I wonder if they would have drafted Marino. It may have been Theismann who followed Griese in Miami.

I don’t believe so from the standpoint that Theismann was drafted in 71. It would have been a long while until he got a shot.

Even then, he was 33 by the time Marino was drafted. I don’t think believe he would have affected their draft plans had he been the QB by then. And at worse, MIA’s draft position would have been 28 instead of 27.

 

[royalshank]

Had Theismann signed with Miami, I wonder if they would have drafted Marino. It may have been Theismann who followed Griese in Miami. Also, if Woodley had fared better in the super bowl, I wonder the same thing.

I always felt bad for Woodley. He had played very well in the postseason win over San Diego twp weeks prior and, at that time was considered a young, ascending talent. After the super bowl, that all changed.

Looking back, I'm not sure any adjustments would have worked against San Francisco. Shula did counter with an additional offensive lineman when Walsh put in seven corners, or six. Whatever it was. But then Miami only ran the ball nine times. Credit Walsh there. The Dolphins might have put up 40 points the way Marino was playing at the start of the game. Hard to imagine, but Miami led 10-7 and were looking unstoppable early on.

This narrative is definitely an interesting. But look at Sean McVay and Andy Reid. Both are considered offensive guru's and yet neither of their teams scored an offensive touchdown in the past few super bowls. And we're talking about an ERA when nobody blinks when a quarterback puts up 400 yards, or when two teams combine for 1,000 yards.

Someone knows how that game went down. Shula did counter w the extra OL when Walsh went 7 DBs plus Keena Turner as the spy. And yet their 3 or 4 rushers penetrated our O-line and dropped Bennett and Nathan at or behind the LOS every time. We simply couldn’t win 1:1 or 2:1 match ups for some reason. I believe pro bowl guard Ed Newman got hurt and missed the 2nd half IIR. Shula and Walsh coached it right, respectively. The players either executed or didn’t. Better team won.

 

[Marino420TD]

Someone knows how that game went down. Shula did counter w the extra OL when Walsh went 7 DBs plus Keena Turner as the spy. And yet their 3 or 4 rushers penetrated our O-line and dropped Bennett and Nathan at or behind the LOS every time. We simply couldn’t win 1:1 or 2:1 match ups for some reason. I believe pro bowl guard Ed Newman got hurt and missed the 2nd half IIR. Shula and Walsh coached it right, respectively. The players either executed or didn’t. Better team won.

Exactly, not to mention SF had >37min time of possession. Clayton losing a 1:1 jump ball and Marino winging a bad pass in the endzone towards the end didn't help either in terms of scoring. Didn't matter to the outcome, however.

 

[royalshank]

I started hearing this stat from wise guys in Las Vegas before the 1984 season Super Bowl. They were ridiculing the heck out of Shula and his lack of adjustments, certain it would happen again versus the 49ers. One older guy in particular named Jack was ripping Shula every day regarding this trend. I was surprised because I had never heard the stat before. Then you should have seen the stampede to the betting windows when somehow the Dolphins were made the second half favorite against the 49ers. I didn't believe it then and I still have a difficult time believing that number. Most joints had Miami -3.5 for the second half but downtown at Union Plaza the famed Jackie Gaughan actually used Miami -4.5.

I was at the small wise guy joint called Churchill Downs. It was near the current site of Paris Las Vegas. When they posted Dolphins -3.5 at halftime an eccentric redheaded Canadian guy nicknamed Super Dave (after Dave Osborne) ran up there and came back with the ticket on San Francisco. He said, "If anyone watches that first half and can't bet on the 49ers I don't know why they are in this town. And that doesn't even include Shula in the second half."

It's actually worse than the numbers from the OP. Shula's teams never scored a second half point in a competitive Super Bowl. The only scores were a late touchdown drive from Johnny Unitas with 3 minutes remaining in Super Bowl III while the Colts trailed the Jets 16-0, and the opening drive of the second half in the 1973 season Super Bowl when the Dolphins extended the lead from 17-0 to 24-0.

Interesting AD, but we both know that w Wash and Minny we weren’t trying all that hard to score in the 2nd half. We threw 7 passes in each of those SBs or thereabouts. We were in COMPLETE control and were milking the clock. And Wash should have ended 17-0. 24-7 in those days was a total blowout.

The other 3 SBs, our opponents were A LOT better than us. The closest one was thanks to Shula’s brilliance in finding and manufacturing a game plan to exploit the skins poor KO coverage as Fulton Walker scored the only legit TD in the game and took 2 other kicks back to mid field or so.

That game was close even though their O-linemen on average weighed 40 pounds per man more than our D line yet we bent and bent and hung in there until the big Riggins run on 4th and 1. That game was closer due to Shula making lemons out of lemonade against a FAR bigger, more physical, powerful team - we had a similar team as them - power running w Andra Franklin that year and great D. But that was the era that began where the NFC won 15 SBs in a row (minus the ‘83 Raiders) w the same formula - big, physical teams pushing the Dolphins, Broncos, Bills, Bengals around - very few of these games were remotely competitive. The Skins, 9ers, Giants and Cowboys (early 90’s) were all better than the best team the AFC could serve up. The real “Super Bowl” was the. NFC title game from ‘84-‘97.

In those 3 SBs Denver got themselves wiped across the floor, how many 2nd half points did they score in 55-10, 42-10 and whatever the score is was when the Giants blew them out?

This had nothing to do w Shula. What a joke. The man coached 33 years and had 2 losing seasons. Had the playoff format been as large as what BB has enjoyed, he’d have been in more than 6 SBs (which is still ducking incredible). I’m certain we make it in ‘77 where 10-4 wasn’t good enough to get us in w Griese the top rated passer in the NFL.

I can’t sit here and not respond to pot shots at the winningest coach of all time. He won the SBs he was supposed to win (actually, we were underdogs in ‘72) and lost the ones he wasn’t supposed to win.

I guarantee if he had the 2007 Pats against the 10-6 Giants his team doesn’t choke and get psyched out in the run up “Plax playing defense now?” - Tom Brady and he wins that game handily.

Shula was the GOAT. Anyone who wants to put BB ahead of him has to explain how you overlook all of the cheating, Tom Brady (can’t win without him), losing to the 10-6 Giants when you are 18-0, losing to Nick Foles etc.

I can’t get behind any post or narrative that someone suggests Shula held his teams back in those SB losses.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Someone knows how that game went down. Shula did counter w the extra OL when Walsh went 7 DBs plus Keena Turner as the spy. And yet their 3 or 4 rushers penetrated our O-line and dropped Bennett and Nathan at or behind the LOS every time. We simply couldn’t win 1:1 or 2:1 match ups for some reason. I believe pro bowl guard Ed Newman got hurt and missed the 2nd half IIR. Shula and Walsh coached it right, respectively. The players either executed or didn’t. Better team won.

Exactly. And that really was my point. Sometimes it's just a talent issue.

 

[royalshank]

Wow. That is ugly.

Weird because Don Shula's teams had a lot of comebacks.

I think you have to look at each game individually. In Super Bowl VII, the Dolphins were protecting a 14-0 lead and the defense was playing lights out. Washington's biggest play was a 15-yard gain.

Miami did have a second half drive, highlighted by a Csonka 49-yard run, that reached Washington's 5-yard line. But Griese threw an interception in the end zone on a nice play by Fisher.

Of course, there was also Garo's Gaff with 2:07 to play. Easily the Dolphins could have won 17-0 or even 24-0. It certainly wasn't a second half meltdown by any means.

Super Bowl VI just had an unusual vibe when Csonka lost a fumble early. I believe it was the only fumble he lost all year. I've always wondered if playing KC in the longest game, just two weeks earlier, had an effect on the players.

The most disappointing second half had to be the loss to Washington. That was a winnable game with the defense giving Miami chance after chance. I remember thinking, we just need one first down, a couple of plays.

In retrospect, Shula should have gone to Strock earlier as Woodley just really struggled.

Washington was only winnable because we played over our heads on ST and D. We should have gotten curb stomped. And still, one tipped ball that could would have been a TD away from stealing that game.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Interesting AD, but we both know that w Wash and Minny we weren’t trying all that hard to score in the 2nd half. We threw 7 passes in each of those SBs or thereabouts. We were in COMPLETE control and were milking the clock. And Wash should have ended 17-0. 24-7 in those days was a total blowout.

The other 3 SBs, our opponents were A LOT better than us. The closest one was thanks to Shula’s brilliance in finding and manufacturing a game plan to exploit the skins poor KO coverage as Fulton Walker scored the only legit TD in the game and took 2 other kicks back to mid field or so.

That game was close even though their O-linemen on average weighed 40 pounds per man more than our D line yet we bent and bent and hung in there until the big Riggins run on 4th and 1. That game was closer due to Shula making lemons out of lemonade against a FAR bigger, more physical, powerful team - we had a similar team as them - power running w Andra Franklin that year and great D. But that was the era that began where the NFC won 15 SBs in a row (minus the ‘83 Raiders) w the same formula - big, physical teams pushing the Dolphins, Broncos, Bills, Bengals around - very few of these games were remotely competitive. The Skins, 9ers, Giants and Cowboys (early 90’s) were all better than the best team the AFC could serve up. The real “Super Bowl” was the. NFC title game from ‘84-‘97.

In those 3 SBs Denver got themselves wiped across the floor, how many 2nd half points did they score in 55-10, 42-10 and whatever the score is was when the Giants blew them out?

This had nothing to do w Shula. What a joke. The man coached 33 years and had 2 losing seasons. Had the playoff format been as large as what BB has enjoyed, he’d have been in more than 6 SBs (which is still ducking incredible). I’m certain we make it in ‘77 where 10-4 wasn’t good enough to get us in w Griese the top rated passer in the NFL.

I can’t sit here and not respond to pot shots at the winningest coach of all time. He won the SBs he was supposed to win (actually, we were underdogs in ‘72) and lost the ones he wasn’t supposed to win.

I guarantee if he had the 2007 Pats against the 10-6 Giants his team doesn’t choke and get psyched out in the run up “Plax playing defense now?” - Tom Brady and he wins that game handily.

Shula was the GOAT. Anyone who wants to put BB ahead of him has to explain how you overlook all of the cheating, Tom Brady (can’t win without him), losing to the 10-6 Giants when you are 18-0, losing to Nick Foles etc.

I can’t get behind any post or narrative that someone suggests Shula held his teams back in those SB losses.e second hal

I agree. Have no issue whatsoever with the second halves in Super Bowl VII and VIII. The way Miami's defense was playing, sticking to a conservative game plan was the right call.

Minnesota's defense, in particular, had the ability to change games and they were tough to pass against.

 

[royalshank]

Exactly, not to mention SF had >37min time of possession. Clayton losing a 1:1 jump ball and Marino winging a bad pass in the endzone towards the end didn't help either in terms of scoring. Didn't matter to the outcome, however.

Clayton dropped a bomb that came in perfectly over the top (he was covered) and went right down his chest / through his arms in the 2nd half. W 22 min TOP because we couldn’t get SF off of the field, we only had so many chances in the 2nd half. And anyone wondering why we didn’t score more when we beat Wash and Minny could ask Montana how after 28 straight first half points he only mustered 10 in the 2nd half... err... perhaps because they were in total control and focused on clock time? Walsh said before the game that “20 points would be enough to win”. Anyone recall that? He was right. I’m sure Shula knew it too. That 9ers team was the best of that era - better than the ‘85 Bears by a lot.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Clayton dropped a bomb that came in perfectly over the top (he was covered) and went right down his chest / through his arms in the 2nd half. W 22 min TOP because we couldn’t get SF off of the field, we only had so many chances in the 2nd half. And anyone wondering why we didn’t score more when we beat Wash and Minny could ask Montana how after 28 straight first half points he only mustered 10 in the 2nd half... err... perhaps because they were in total control and focused on clock time? Walsh said before the game that “20 points would be enough to win”. Anyone recall that? He was right. I’m sure Shula knew it too. That 9ers team was the best of that era - better than the ‘85 Bears by a lot.

To go a step further, if Atlanta ran the ball on every play in the second half against New England the probability of the Falcons winning the super bowl was something like 99.999 percent.

That SF super bowl hurt the most for several reasons.

One, I think that 1984 team would have beaten most teams around that time period. Two, just how dominant the 49ers were. Three, living in the Bay Area and the general lack of respect they have for Marino and that team.

But mostly because Miami never got back to the super bowl in the Marino years.

That would be like Mahomes never getting back to the super bowl after the ugly loss to Tampa Bay.

 

[royalshank]

To go a step further, if Atlanta ran the ball on every play in the second half against New England the probability of the Falcons winning the super bowl was something like 99.999 percent.

That SF super bowl hurt the most for several reasons.

One, I think that 1984 team would have beaten most teams around that time period. Two, just how dominant the 49ers were. Three, living in the Bay Area and the general lack of respect they have for Marino and that team.

But mostly because Miami never got back to the super bowl in the Marino years.

That would be like Mahomes never getting back to the super bowl after the ugly loss to Tampa Bay.

Yep on Atlanta. I was incredulous at how they called the game after going up 28-3. Snapping the ball w 0:12 on the play clock, passing etc. As you say, had they gone conservative, NE didn’t have enough possessions to tie it. They get 1 less and they needed ALL of them just to tie. That was an epic failure in coaching.

 

[juniorseau55]

Something that's always bothered me for years is the 2nd halves of the Superbowls that Miami has played in.

After looking at some stats, these are the 2nd half scoring numbers in each of the SB's Miami has been in

Dallas 14 - Miami 0
Washington 7 - Miami 0
Minnesota 7 - Miami 7
Washington 17 - Miami 0
San Francisco 10 - Miami 0

They have been outscored 55 to 7 in the 2nd half of the Superbowls. That stat speaks for itself. That has to be a considered a big factor of why there are 3 Superbowl losses.

Garo Yepremian is the only Dolphin to throw a TD pass in the second half of a Super Bowl.

Interesting facts lol

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Yep on Atlanta. I was incredulous at how they called the game after going up 28-3. Snapping the ball w 0:12 on the play clock, passing etc. As you say, had they gone conservative, NE didn’t have enough possessions to tie it. They get 1 less and they needed ALL of them just to tie. That was an epic failure in coaching.

It was a coaching loss in my book. I think Atlanta was getting 5.5 yards a pop in their run game. But even if New England shut it down, it was a clock game at that point. Not enough ticks for the Patriots to come back.

 

[royalshank]

It was a coaching loss in my book. I think Atlanta was getting 5.5 yards a pop in their run game. But even if New England shut it down, it was a clock game at that point. Not enough ticks for the Patriots to come back.

100%. And no excuse for snapping the ball each play w > 0:10 on the play clock. That was horrid.