nyfinzfan
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It was a dumb pick ....just a terrible move. As little faith I have in Dion Jordan I have even less that Philbin or Coyle will ever put him in positions to suceed. Our coaching sucks balls period exclamation point.
Is it time to start asking what's up with Dion Jordan?
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Dr. Phin
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There have been threads this week defending him...
Gad, was Jordan sluggish. I'm impressed at the lack of overreaction to his one strip play.
He doesn't even deserve credit for that. The tackle #79 really should have been flagged for an illegal formation on that play. He took his stance more than a yard back from the line of scrimmage and angled his left shoulder so far back that it virtually invited Jordan to take his one preferred outside slant. That move is generally repelled easily and Jordan dips slightly inside, to the opposite side of the tackle's head. Once that variation is similarly thwarted, Jordan arm wrestles and is nullified.
He does use his hands well during the extremely rare occasions he manages to get within arm length of the quarterback. I'll give him credit for that. It's basically the only time he displays any instincts or fight. That guy Reed #48 wants to be out there 10x Jordan's current intensity level.
IMO, he's simply an overstated athlete. The frame and loping running style suggests a great athlete but it's not there. Too many scouts were fooled and now the adjusters will be fooled for several more years.
On the site footballsfuture.com one highly respected poster developed a method to evaluate the combine numbers like 40 time and vertical jump and standing broad jump, etc. to identify how explosive a player really is. He has an excellent track record, particularly with edge types like defensive ends and rush linebackers. Prior to the 2013 draft he posted his numbers. Jordan's were very ordinary. He labeled Jordan, "The Reach," given where Jordan obviously would be drafted. I took note of it but wasn't really concerned, considering we were drafting #12 and Jordan figured to be long gone.
Here is the link and the related summary. Looks very accurate toward Jordan at this point:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=521433
"Dion Jordan, OLB, MEI 70.23 – The reach. Jordan isn't a bad player, he just shouldn't be in consideration for a top five pick. He's tall but skinny, athletic but inert. His mediocre vertical of 32.5 inches likely portends a critical lack of explosiveness that will limit him as an edge rusher, given his wiry frame. Some guys can get away with less burst to their game by using length, power and leverage, but Jordan only possesses one of those traits. He'll probably have to stand up and work as a linebacker exclusively, as it's hard to see him enduring the wear and tear of working as a down lineman in the trenches regularly. He is still relatively young and has only played on the defensive side of the ball for three seasons, so there's a chance he grows into his body and puts it all together. But given his lack of production and rapid ascent in draft circles, I wouldn't want to be the one to take that chance with a premium pick."
He doesn't even deserve credit for that. The tackle #79 really should have been flagged for an illegal formation on that play. He took his stance more than a yard back from the line of scrimmage and angled his left shoulder so far back that it virtually invited Jordan to take his one preferred outside slant. That move is generally repelled easily and Jordan dips slightly inside, to the opposite side of the tackle's head. Once that variation is similarly thwarted, Jordan arm wrestles and is nullified.
He does use his hands well during the extremely rare occasions he manages to get within arm length of the quarterback. I'll give him credit for that. It's basically the only time he displays any instincts or fight. That guy Reed #48 wants to be out there 10x Jordan's current intensity level.
IMO, he's simply an overstated athlete. The frame and loping running style suggests a great athlete but it's not there. Too many scouts were fooled and now the adjusters will be fooled for several more years.
On the site footballsfuture.com one highly respected poster developed a method to evaluate the combine numbers like 40 time and vertical jump and standing broad jump, etc. to identify how explosive a player really is. He has an excellent track record, particularly with edge types like defensive ends and rush linebackers. Prior to the 2013 draft he posted his numbers. Jordan's were very ordinary. He labeled Jordan, "The Reach," given where Jordan obviously would be drafted. I took note of it but wasn't really concerned, considering we were drafting #12 and Jordan figured to be long gone.
Here is the link and the related summary. Looks very accurate toward Jordan at this point:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=521433
"Dion Jordan, OLB, MEI 70.23 – The reach. Jordan isn't a bad player, he just shouldn't be in consideration for a top five pick. He's tall but skinny, athletic but inert. His mediocre vertical of 32.5 inches likely portends a critical lack of explosiveness that will limit him as an edge rusher, given his wiry frame. Some guys can get away with less burst to their game by using length, power and leverage, but Jordan only possesses one of those traits. He'll probably have to stand up and work as a linebacker exclusively, as it's hard to see him enduring the wear and tear of working as a down lineman in the trenches regularly. He is still relatively young and has only played on the defensive side of the ball for three seasons, so there's a chance he grows into his body and puts it all together. But given his lack of production and rapid ascent in draft circles, I wouldn't want to be the one to take that chance with a premium pick."
Cool idea by that guy. Good read.
One of the best things coming out of the seeming overdrafting of Dion Jordan is that it helped to accelerate Ireland's exit. All last season, Kevin Coyle had to wrestle with what role is he best suited to make an impact. Coyle is surprisingly honest when he answers questions at the press conferences. When asked about Jordan's limited playing time last year, during last season, Coyle alluded to not playing him much because he needed to get stronger and he said that nothing would change in the short term. They had clearly made the decision to beef him up to be a DE, not an outside LB. So now Dion is over 30 lbs heavier than when we drafted him (244lbs up to 275). BTW, 30 lbs is a lot of extra muscle, he is not built like JT any more.
Jason Taylor is part of the "brainstrust" assisting in his development and our bona fide team leader, Cam Wake will give them honest assessments of Dion's development. Let's see what we have before throwing the baby out with the bath water. The good thing is that Olivier Vernon continues to look great in the DE role and Shelby also looked good the other night, too. Also interesting to see our 7th round stud rookie, Terence Fede continuing to flash in the role when on the field.
If Philbin, Coyle and Kacy Rodgers can't turn Dion into an on the field beast pretty quickly (even with the PEDs and the tips from Jason Taylor and Cam Wake), then they should probably cut bait and recommend that Hickey get what he can in a deal. Maybe that is now only a 3rd round draft pick? I have advocated patience re Jordan's development, but we can't sit on our hands forever and we need to see signs that he can be a good DE or his value will continue to quietly evaporate. Chip Kelly must be chuckling about what has transpired and he remains poised to exploit if Hickey gives him a call.
Ireland was simply too impressed with the athleticism shown in Dion's performance metrics when he should have been considering the fit with our 4-3 system. The great irony is that Olivier Vernon continues to exceed expectations at DE and he was already on the roster when Jeff got his rush of blood.
Jason Taylor is part of the "brainstrust" assisting in his development and our bona fide team leader, Cam Wake will give them honest assessments of Dion's development. Let's see what we have before throwing the baby out with the bath water. The good thing is that Olivier Vernon continues to look great in the DE role and Shelby also looked good the other night, too. Also interesting to see our 7th round stud rookie, Terence Fede continuing to flash in the role when on the field.
If Philbin, Coyle and Kacy Rodgers can't turn Dion into an on the field beast pretty quickly (even with the PEDs and the tips from Jason Taylor and Cam Wake), then they should probably cut bait and recommend that Hickey get what he can in a deal. Maybe that is now only a 3rd round draft pick? I have advocated patience re Jordan's development, but we can't sit on our hands forever and we need to see signs that he can be a good DE or his value will continue to quietly evaporate. Chip Kelly must be chuckling about what has transpired and he remains poised to exploit if Hickey gives him a call.
Ireland was simply too impressed with the athleticism shown in Dion's performance metrics when he should have been considering the fit with our 4-3 system. The great irony is that Olivier Vernon continues to exceed expectations at DE and he was already on the roster when Jeff got his rush of blood.
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I think that our coaches are set to take the team to the next level. With the talent assembled, the team has more depth than at any time in the past 15 years and you can't see it. The decision was made a long time ago to make him into a pass rushing DE in our 4-3 system. We have one of the best D-line coaches in the NFL in Kacy Rodgers, who definitely doesn't suck in his role. Jordan is a likely error by the GM, not the coach.
Which goes back to the notion that Jordan should have been playing OLB from day 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGIje72yCX4
The only stat that I saw referred to in the Football Future's post was Jordan's vertical of 32.5". As to the post itself, I'm not sure how that guy can say that Jordan lacks explosion, unless he's talking about exploding through OTs, ie power. Jordan is clearly an explosive and quick athlete in space, the tape proves that time and again. All of this goes back to the point that Jordan should have been at OLB all along, where his quickness, relative thinness and high center of gravity were fine. Btw that FF poster seems to favor verticals and broad jumps- I remember watching the combine and seeing Jamie Collins have a crazy broad jump and a good vertical- on tape I didn't see nearly enough explosion for the FF guy to label him "The Freak". I was underwhelmed by the film of a guy he talks up, DE Mike Catapano- nothing special there imo. I was also a bit confused by his comments on Sharrif Floyd, who looked very explosive and powerful to me at UF. But for the most part the analysis in that piece was good.
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eger
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I remember the argument "you can never have too many LB'ers/DE's when we had very big holes elesewhere. Trade this clown for something now before word gets out.
Who is "they"? And were "they" responsible for turning Vernon into a pass rushing force? Are "they" responsible for Terrence Fede looking better than Dion Jordan?
Draft status and contract aside, I think Jordan still has a chance of being a good player for us. He will never live up to the 3rd overall pick, especially in such a weak draft class, but he can still be a good player for us. I dont think any of the top 10 players in the 2013 could have gone top 10 this year.
I don't know about that. I still think Luke Joeckel would have been a top 10 pick and possibly Eric Fisher.
RobertHorry
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Luke Joeckel looked absolutely atrocious in the two preseason games this year for the Jags.
If Joeckel and Matthews came out in the same year, both Texas A&M OT products, Matthews would go first. Fisher wasn't as good a prospect as Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson imo. Those were the only two OTs selected in the top 10 in 2014, and I dont think Fisher was better than either. Bottom line is that there were no elite prospects in 2013 draft. There are usually at least 5 elite players in a draft, but 2013 had non imo.
There were elite players in 2013...they just weren't taken in top 10. Too early to say either way. I agree that 2013 was a weak draft all the way around but I can think of 5 guys who could have big seasons...Ziggy Ansah who was taken 5th had 8 sacks last year for Detroit, Star Lotulelei was a big reason the Carolina Panthers had one of the top rush defenses in the league last year, Tyler Eifert was a nice weapon for Cincy last year, Cordarrelle Patterson made some huge plays for Minnesota last year mostly in the return game but I think this year he could be a major impact in the passing game and Gio Bernard made some huge plays for Cincy last year...heck he almost killed us single handedly.
fininpsl
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Don't forget Keenan Allen who had a 1,000 yard season at WR for the Chargers.