Is Miami Done Adding on the Offensive Line? | Page 17 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Is Miami Done Adding on the Offensive Line?

MrClean said:
By all accounts, he was a great teammate and locker-room guy with the Rams and Ravens. A model citizen. No reason to suspect he'd be otherwise with Miami.
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Yeah, I think the turmoil in his early years with the Giants has affected what ppl think. TBH, the way I remember it the Giants were being Dbags to some extent.

In any case, I haven't seen/heard anything since that would give me pause on signing him.

Price is the only issue AFAIC.
 
Finswatch said:
Aren't DL and EDGE just as critical? Right now we're looking at Seiler and a bunch of guys who were cut by other teams. I like our OL depth and experience much better than what we have on the D line right now. No healthy pass rushers and a D-line that scares nobody isn't what I want to see in September.

How do you know we'll be passing on guys who are only "slightly less talented" if we take an OL in the first round? If we assume Fuaga and Fautanu might be gone when we pick, is Graham Barton only a little less talented than Byron Murphy, Brian Thomas, Chop Robinson? Do you take Jon Rahm (OL) or the field (DT, Edge, WR) in any given tournament? There's going to be many options at or around 21. Getting locked into one position doesn't work. It produces picks like J'Wan James. The difference between the 21st best player and the 30th or 32nd could be massive. What if a great talent like Brock Bowers or Johnny Newton or Rome Odunze drops? You're still going to take an offensive lineman?

And how many first round grade IOL guys are in this draft who we really have a chance to draft at 21? Barton and JPJ? Maybe Jordan Morgan? Morgan would be a stretch at 21, as said I'd be OK with the other 2 but think there's a real chance there's a better player at another position who will be there for them at #21.

And we had a 40.19% conversion rate on third down last year which was 12th in the league, certainly not awful.
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There is a substantial difference in a legitimate reach vs. Favoring a slightly lower ranked prospect. It's very easy to look back a previous drafts but hindsight is 20/20. The reality is there is a fair amount of grey area between prospects. To favor i o line in such a situation is far from unreasonable considering our deficiencies there and the depth of dl in later rounds. While the season wide conversion rate on third down appears okay, it fails to take into account how as the season progressed that number fell off a cliff (I think we were sub 10 percent against the chiefs) we started playing teams with a winning record.

Tldr o line has been a problem for a while. We made one solid move during fa but the current holes warrant drastic action during the draft.
 
Mach2 said:
Yeah, I think the turmoil in his early years with the Giants has affected what ppl think. TBH, the way I remember it the Giants were being Dbags to some extent.

In any case, I haven't seen/heard anything since that would give me pause on signing him.

Price is the only issue AFAIC.
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Agree. I think he'd be a great add. At the right price.
 
Feverdream said:
Domestic turkeys usually can't... especially when dropped from helicopters!
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I see you said "Domestic Turkeys usually can't (fly). This actually means they can fly but unusually don't.

It's like saying Basenji's can't bark. I've owned 4 Basenjis over the last 40 years and two of them did bark.

Consider what other folks say as questionable and particularly when their "proof" is a lame "usually can't", which implies that actually can.

I'm a wild turkey kind of guy.
They most certainly can fly.
They roost on the lower branches of trees in their habitats. They can't climb trees. - LOL
They are considered weak flyers.

About 10 years ago I found a female wild turkey on a chain link fence that surrounds the High Point American Legion that I go to in downtown High Point. It didn't get there by taxi! - LOL

As for domestic Turkeys, I have seen enough of them posing as "Lemmings" on this board to no longer care about them, except around Thanksgiving when they serve a meaningful purpose - like food! - LOL
 
Ray R said:
I see you said "Domestic Turkeys usually can't (fly). This actually means they can fly but unusually don't.

It's like saying Basenji's can't bark. I've owned 4 Basenjis over the last 40 years and two of them did bark.

Consider what other folks say as questionable and particularly when their "proof" is a lame "usually can't", which implies that actually can.

I'm a wild turkey kind of guy.
They most certainly can fly.
They roost on the lower branches of trees in their habitats. They can't climb trees. - LOL
They are considered weak flyers.

About 10 years ago I found a female wild turkey on a chain link fence that surrounds the High Point American Legion that I go to in downtown High Point. It didn't get there by taxi! - LOL

As for domestic Turkeys, I have seen enough of them posing as "Lemmings" on this board to no longer care about them, except around Thanksgiving when they serve a meaningful purpose - like food! - LOL
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After reading through that lengthy manifesto on turkeys, the part that made the most sense to me was that you must be a Wild Turkey kind of guy.


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Prince Flipper said:
There is a substantial difference in a legitimate reach vs. Favoring a slightly lower ranked prospect. It's very easy to look back a previous drafts but hindsight is 20/20. The reality is there is a fair amount of grey area between prospects. To favor i o line in such a situation is far from unreasonable considering our deficiencies there and the depth of dl in later rounds. While the season wide conversion rate on third down appears okay, it fails to take into account how as the season progressed that number fell off a cliff (I think we were sub 10 percent against the chiefs) we started playing teams with a winning record.

Tldr o line has been a problem for a while. We made one solid move during fa but the current holes warrant drastic action during the draft.
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How do you know that the OL you want is a "slightly lower ranked prospect" than a player at another position who might be there. I don't know that there is a fair amount of grey area between prospects. Don't have access to the Dolphins draft board or player rankings. They could like WR x or DE z over any OL prospect left on the board at #21. That's my whole point is that you can't lock into one position with your first (or in some fans' cases) or worse yet, first two picks. It would be crazy and probably not give your roster the best value it could with two valuable picks in a span where they haven't had many high picks to exercise lately.

Didn't you and others say this was a deep OL draft as well? So why shouldn't Miami take a better DL prospect over an O-line one?
Wilkins was a much bigger loss than Robert Hunt, imo, and I'd rather have Murphy or Newton over Latham, Barton, Guyton, Morgan or any of the prospects not named Fautanu. I think taking a guard who can't be expected to step in for Armstead at LT isn't the best use of the 21st pick. Nor is taking a college RT and saying "hey, we can just slot him in at guard or maybe he can play LT in a pinch" is a risky strategy. We can get a guard later in the draft and honestly I just don't see anybody within our reach that is good enough to play left tackle in his rookie year.

A 40.2% conversion rate on third down doesn't appear good, it IS good. I think blaming the OL for the playoff loss in KC is just a little too convenient. I'd blame Tua's performance in the cold and injuries to the secondary and pass rushers (we were counting on 38 year old guys just off the street to rush Mahomes) more than the OL for that loss.

I think the OL needs to get better and I hope they get the chance to draft the unicorn player who can step in and be effective at RG, LG and LT. If that guy isn't there in round 1 you take the better prospect at DT, EDGE, or WR. I have much more confidence they can get a guy who can play one of the guard spots in Round 2 or later.
 
"Tell me you haven't been watching the OL without saying that you haven't been watching the OL"
 
Finswatch said:
How do you know that the OL you want is a "slightly lower ranked prospect" than a player at another position who might be there. I don't know that there is a fair amount of grey area between prospects. Don't have access to the Dolphins draft board or player rankings. They could like WR x or DE z over any OL prospect left on the board at #21. That's my whole point is that you can't lock into one position with your first (or in some fans' cases) or worse yet, first two picks. It would be crazy and probably not give your roster the best value it could with two valuable picks in a span where they haven't had many high picks to exercise lately.

Didn't you and others say this was a deep OL draft as well? So why shouldn't Miami take a better DL prospect over an O-line one?
Wilkins was a much bigger loss than Robert Hunt, imo, and I'd rather have Murphy or Newton over Latham, Barton, Guyton, Morgan or any of the prospects not named Fautanu. I think taking a guard who can't be expected to step in for Armstead at LT isn't the best use of the 21st pick. Nor is taking a college RT and saying "hey, we can just slot him in at guard or maybe he can play LT in a pinch" is a risky strategy. We can get a guard later in the draft and honestly I just don't see anybody within our reach that is good enough to play left tackle in his rookie year.

A 40.2% conversion rate on third down doesn't appear good, it IS good. I think blaming the OL for the playoff loss in KC is just a little too convenient. I'd blame Tua's performance in the cold and injuries to the secondary and pass rushers (we were counting on 38 year old guys just off the street to rush Mahomes) more than the OL for that loss.

I think the OL needs to get better and I hope they get the chance to draft the unicorn player who can step in and be effective at RG, LG and LT. If that guy isn't there in round 1 you take the better prospect at DT, EDGE, or WR. I have much more confidence they can get a guy who can play one of the guard spots in Round 2 or later.
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I'm not sure you point about slightly lower players makes sense. In the draft players are scouted and ranked by teams. There is always grey area because none of these guys have played in the league before. Favoring a key need in your calculations makes sense. You're trying to make it out like I'm saying reach for a second round tier guy when the reality I'm saying if you have the choice between a first round ol guy and someone else you take the ol guy because the need is that high.

Dl is not as important as keeping our qb healthy and giving him time to throw. Tua has lots of flaws and for the team to have a competitive offense we need a much better line because Tua is not good enough to carry the load alone. Also, you need to reread what I said about third down, the chiefs game was one key example but in generally our third down conversion rate went way down against teams with a winning record. So looking at the season long percentage doesn't tell the real story. You need to look at game by game. The story those stats tell is that miami has an injury prone line that fails at pass protection against good teams. We have not picked up anyone on the interior line that solves that problem.
 
I sure hope not. We need at least one more legit Guard starter, or we will definitely see Eich at some point for extended playing time.
 
Finswatch said:
How do you know that the OL you want is a "slightly lower ranked prospect" than a player at another position who might be there. I don't know that there is a fair amount of grey area between prospects. Don't have access to the Dolphins draft board or player rankings. They could like WR x or DE z over any OL prospect left on the board at #21. That's my whole point is that you can't lock into one position with your first (or in some fans' cases) or worse yet, first two picks. It would be crazy and probably not give your roster the best value it could with two valuable picks in a span where they haven't had many high picks to exercise lately.

Didn't you and others say this was a deep OL draft as well? So why shouldn't Miami take a better DL prospect over an O-line one?
Wilkins was a much bigger loss than Robert Hunt, imo, and I'd rather have Murphy or Newton over Latham, Barton, Guyton, Morgan or any of the prospects not named Fautanu. I think taking a guard who can't be expected to step in for Armstead at LT isn't the best use of the 21st pick. Nor is taking a college RT and saying "hey, we can just slot him in at guard or maybe he can play LT in a pinch" is a risky strategy. We can get a guard later in the draft and honestly I just don't see anybody within our reach that is good enough to play left tackle in his rookie year.

A 40.2% conversion rate on third down doesn't appear good, it IS good. I think blaming the OL for the playoff loss in KC is just a little too convenient. I'd blame Tua's performance in the cold and injuries to the secondary and pass rushers (we were counting on 38 year old guys just off the street to rush Mahomes) more than the OL for that loss.

I think the OL needs to get better and I hope they get the chance to draft the unicorn player who can step in and be effective at RG, LG and LT. If that guy isn't there in round 1 you take the better prospect at DT, EDGE, or WR. I have much more confidence they can get a guy who can play one of the guard spots in Round 2 or later.
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I tried to just focus on the "bolded" portions of your entire post, but as it turns out, your entire post is excellent!
 
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