Is The Most Recent Mel Kiper Mock Draft Plus The Palm Beach Post Worrisome?

[MrChadRico]

I wouldn’t worry too much. The pundits once outside of the top 5-10 pick have a remarkably low hit rate in terms of success if their predictions.i say this based on me following this in great detail for the past 24 years or so, they get it wrong all the time outside of the obvious top 6 or 7 picks.

Having said that, Barton would be a tremendous selection for us. I would predict that the dolphins would use the first round pick on a premium position which on the offensive line would be a tackle, probably to take over for Terrin Armstead when he’s injured and when he retires probably next year if he’s not outright cut this year.

This also means, wr, and edge would also be in play here but probably not defensive back just because the rating of that class seems to not be very high this year.

Center could be possible too based on player rating and what happens with Conner williams.

Trading back would be great too.

Do you remember the year like 10 years ago or so where Mayock had like 11 of the first 12 picks correct. That was the most accurate I remember a mock being from a TV guy.

 

[ThePeopleShow13]

Drafting a college LT who projects as a center over a true center prospect seems like a very “Dolphins” move to make. It’s disappointing how little effort we have put into the position since Pouncey left.

 

[FinFaninColorado]

I’m usually against trading up, unless it’s for a QB that is a can’t miss prospect.

Or Dion Jordan is sitting there

 

[1972forever]

Mel is a national treasure.

It's no secret Miami wants to trade down. Mel doesn't do trades.

I lean impact players early in the draft. You can find average offensive lineman anywhere.

I hate to disagree with you regarding your comment that Kiper is a “National treasure”. Your view of what a national treasure is must be very low if you believe Kiper is a national treasure. Because the vast percentage of the American population have no idea who Mel Kiper is.

He has been able to make a decent living being wrong more than right in regards to players in the draft but that certainly doesn’t make him a, “National treasure”.

 

[Feverdream]

Do you remember the year like 10 years ago or so where Mayock had like 11 of the first 12 picks correct. That was the most accurate I remember a mock being from a TV guy.

Mayock was always better at figuring out what teams would do... than in actually evaluating which prospects would succeed.

He always had a blind spot about character when it came to prospects. This is what killed him when he actually got a job.

 

[Feverdream]

Mel Kiper is a huckster... plain and simple.

He identified an untapped market (draft analysis) and filled it (poorly).

Sort of like McDonald's does with food. I mean... it isn't GOOD food.

 

[Feverdream]

Drafting a college LT who projects as a center over a true center prospect seems like a very “Dolphins” move to make. It’s disappointing how little effort we have put into the position since Pouncey left.

Part of the problem is that by running a zone-blocking system, we absolutely have to have a Center that can pull... that can get to the second level.
Many college Centers... can't. They tend to be phone booth players who just don't fit in any scheme but a power/gap system.
It makes their analysis tough.

 

[ThePeopleShow13]

Part of the problem is that by running a zone-blocking system, we absolutely have to have a Center that can pull... that can get to the second level.
Many college Centers... can't. They tend to be phone booth players who just don't fit in any scheme but a power/gap system.
It makes their analysis tough.

I agree that many college centers do not fit our current scheme. My point was the long history we have ignoring the position. Flores ran a power scheme and we had the ability to draft a number of guys who became successful pros while he was here.

That being said, I don’t think a lot of guys with little to no center experience transition to the position successfully in the NFL either. I think a lot of casual fans over look the football IQ needed to be a successful center. The position is the “brain” of the OL much like MLBs are traditionally the brain of the defense. Just look at a guy like Jerome Baker who has all the athleticism in the world, but zero instincts. It is rare to see a guy guess and take himself out of a play more than him.

If JPJ is off the board I could live with taking a flyer on Barton (especially if we trade back). But I would still take the best natural center over a college LT.

 

[gofins60]

Why in the hell would we pick this guy from Duke being he's coming off of INJURIES??? Actually that's the most Dolphin thing to do so he's probably right, even though he shouldn't be.

I thought the same thing.

 

[Feverdream]

I agree that many college centers do not fit our current scheme. My point was the long history we have ignoring the position. Flores ran a power scheme and we had the ability to draft a number of guys who became successful pros while he was here.

That being said, I don’t think a lot of guys with little to no center experience transition to the position successfully in the NFL either. I think a lot of casual fans over look the football IQ needed to be a successful center. The position is the “brain” of the OL much like MLBs are traditionally the brain of the defense. Just look at a guy like Jerome Baker who has all the athleticism in the world, but zero instincts. It is rare to see a guy guess and take himself out of a play more than him.

If JPJ is off the board I could live with taking a flyer on Barton (especially if we trade back). But I would still take the best natural center over a college LT.

For the most part, I would too...

But one of the issues that I have is that after P-J, the next Center is generally thought to be Frazier and I'm not sure that he can be a successful ZB player. There are questions about his range.

Barton... despite his more limited Center experience does not have that problem. He is expected to be able to move.

Like I said earlier... it's a tough call. ...and it's made even worse by the fact that Connor Williams and his agent have openly said that they will probably wait until late to attempt to find a team because of his injury.

Hell... we'll probably HAVE to draft a Center just because we are unsure of whether we could entice Williams to return.

 

[phinsforlife]

For the most part, I would too...

But one of the issues that I have is that after P-J, the next Center is generally thought to be Frazier and I'm not sure that he can be a successful ZB player. There are questions about his range.

Barton... despite his more limited Center experience does not have that problem. He is expected to be able to move.

Like I said earlier... it's a tough call. ...and it's made even worse by the fact that Connor Williams and his agent have openly said that they will probably wait until late to attempt to find a team because of his injury.

Hell... we'll probably HAVE to draft a Center just because we are unsure of whether we could entice Williams to return.

seems to me it is easier just to keep and pay the guys we have, that we know are good, in cook and hunt. but i guess since the dolphins are lining up to give tua all that money, we have to start letting our known good players go. it also sounds like wilkins will be gone too now on top of it all. sadly i have a hard time seeing how this team will be better when all is said and done

 

[Feverdream]

seems to me it is easier just to keep and pay the guys we have, that we know are good, in cook and hunt. but i guess since the dolphins are lining up to give tua all that money, we have to start letting our known good players go. it also sounds like wilkins will be gone too now on top of it all. sadly i have a hard time seeing how this team will be better when all is said and done

If we lose Hunt, Wilkins, and Van Ginkle, we could actually get three 3rd round picks for them in the 2025 draft.
Yes, we'll be weaker in the short run (and many brothers will cry), but that's how the cap works. That's how the comp pick system works...
Watch the board, those who understand this the least will cry the loudest. They'll scream that it's all Grier's fault and demand his head... then start completely over and begin complaining because we aren't good yet.

I call this, "the cycle of doofus".

 

[phinsforlife]

If we lose Hunt, Wilkins, and Van Ginkle, we could actually get three 3rd round picks for them in the 2025 draft.
Yes, we'll be weaker in the short run (and many brothers will cry), but that's how the cap works. That's how the comp pick system works...
Watch the board, those who understand this the least will cry the loudest. They'll scream that it's all Grier's fault and demand his head... then start completely over and begin complaining because we aren't good yet.

I call this, "the cycle of doofus".

the cycle of doofus is the last 23 years of this team, those that cry have been right!

 

[gofins60]

Part of the problem is that by running a zone-blocking system, we absolutely have to have a Center that can pull... that can get to the second level.
Many college Centers... can't. They tend to be phone booth players who just don't fit in any scheme but a power/gap system.
It makes their analysis tough.

But one of the issues that I have is that after P-J, the next Center is generally thought to be Frazier and I'm not sure that he can be a successful ZB player. There are questions about his range.

If zone-blocking Centers at the college level are rare, then maybe Miami shouldn't be running a zone-blocking scheme. I say this because Miami's o-line problems basically started when Philbin came and wanted zone-blocking. While Sparano (RIP) didn't have a great o-line, it was usually decent, with the exception of a few turnstiles at RT in his last few seasons. Sparano's o-lines usually fared well against the tough, physical d-lines of the Jets and Bills, with Miami winning most of those games.

Then came Philbin with his fancy zone-blocking, and all of a sudden Miami's o-line was physically dominated by those tough Jets and Bills d-lines, with Miami losing more of those games. What's significant here is that Philbin still had Sparano's interior o-line in 2012 and 2013 (LG Incognito, C Pouncy, and RG Jerry). On one hand, this shows that either Philbin's zone-blocking schemes were ineffective, or that those o-linemen weren't very good at it. On the other hand, when Philbin finally replaced those three with his own guys, nothing changed. Miami's o-line was still pushed around and physically dominated by tough, physical d-lines, and that has continued to this day.

So, IMO, Miami needs to go back to having an old-school, smashmouth o-line. I did just read that most teams use some zone-blocking, with some teams more than others. If so, then I'd prefer a tough, physical o-line that can do the occasional zone-blocking rather than a "finesse" zone-blocking o-line that can't play smashmouth when necessary.

 

[Feverdream]

If zone-blocking Centers at the college level are rare, then maybe Miami shouldn't be running a zone-blocking scheme. I say this because Miami's o-line problems basically started when Philbin came and wanted zone-blocking. While Sparano (RIP) didn't have a great o-line, it was usually decent, with the exception of a few turnstiles at RT in his last few seasons. Sparano's o-lines usually fared well against the tough, physical d-lines of the Jets and Bills, with Miami winning most of those games.

Then came Philbin with his fancy zone-blocking, and all of a sudden Miami's o-line was physically dominated by those tough Jets and Bills d-lines, with Miami losing more of those games. What's significant here is that Philbin still had Sparano's interior o-line in 2012 and 2013 (LG Incognito, C Pouncy, and RG Jerry). On one hand, this shows that either Philbin's zone-blocking schemes were ineffective, or that those o-linemen weren't very good at it. On the other hand, when Philbin finally replaced those three with his own guys, nothing changed. Miami's o-line was still pushed around and physically dominated by tough, physical d-lines, and that has continued to this day.

So, IMO, Miami needs to go back to having an old-school, smashmouth o-line. I did just read that most teams use some zone-blocking, with some teams more than others. If so, then I'd prefer a tough, physical o-line that can do the occasional zone-blocking rather than a "finesse" zone-blocking o-line that can't play smashmouth when necessary.

Almost no one runs this in the NFL any longer.

It's 'old technology'.