It was a gimmick defense!!!! | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

It was a gimmick defense!!!!

Originally posted by 13isgr81


Ok then, let other teams do the same thing and we will beat them by at least 10 points as well. This games prove that the Dolphins CAN win even if the oppenent DOES contain Ricky AND Fielder has a bad day...

If anyone wants to repeat what the Giants line did they will have to hope the officials are as blind as the ones in the Giants game, because if what they say in the papers is true, them Giants was cheatin they arses off to mess up Miami's blocking schemes.

I'm sure the Dolphins will send MANY plays to officials for review and they will be sure to watch for that kind of crap in the future... At least I hope thats what happens.
Click to expand...

This had nothing to do with the officials...

I am willing to bet ALL of our opponents will now look at this tape and scheme their defense the same way with little quirks to match their personnel. And if they are succesful when our defense is having a bad game, you may see us get blown out.
 
They only have to look at December 2002.

24-10 at the half.

Ricky had 120 yards at the half against New England. After adjustments were made at the half the Dolphins saw eight in the box the entire second half.

Ricky (who dominates the second half) managed only 65 yards in the second half against that mediocre team.

There are alot of people that disagree with me about the significance of that half of football and the failings of the team but I don't think December was a choke.

I think we were outplayed from the neglect (all year) of the execution of the pass.

Forrest Gump-"Something just jumped right up and bit me"
 
Originally posted by dolfan4good
My point is... what happens when other teams play the same style of defense to stop Ricky and are succesful. You can bet you life that when other teams see what the Giants D was able to do to stop him they will try to copy it. What does this offense have to do to take advantage of their scheme and specifically what part of the offense is lacking? Why can't we change and make the quick outs and slant throws? Is it the WR not getting space or Jay not finding him?

There has to be an answer and a solution to keep other teams from stacking up and stopping Ricky.
Click to expand...


I thought you were saying that their defense was succesful? whats your angle? Were they succesful or not? they stopped ricky but they didnt stop everyone else! what is succesfull to you in the game of football? ya know, takeo spikes made the same mistake, he thought it was all ricky, but what he didnt know was that it was also Konrad, mcmicheal, chambers, fielder. So who cares? As long as all 11 guys are successfull in defeating the other team, that is all that matters!!!!!
 
No...

That's not all that matters...

If that was all that mattered I would have turned off my TV after the game, went to sleep, awaken this morning, and not tuned into Finheaven.com.

If you are not here to talk about the game. Plus, minuses, good play, bad play, and so forth-

WHAT IN SAM HELL ARE YOU DOING HERE?

Is it to right all of us down fans? Is it to steer the ship clear of the naysayers.

Damn people....Can football not be discussed around here?
 
Hey, personally one of my concerns heading into this season was the coaches inability to adapt to defensive and offensive schemes. This was really my only gripe about the coaching staff but so far Bates and Wan and the players have adapted quite well, IMO and as long as they do(and are successful) I'm content.
 
Originally posted by finfan54



I thought you were saying that their defense was succesful? whats your angle? Were they succesful or not? they stopped ricky but they didnt stop everyone else! what is succesfull to you in the game of football? ya know, takeo spikes made the same mistake, he thought it was all ricky, but what he didnt know was that it was also Konrad, mcmicheal, chambers, fielder. So who cares? As long as all 11 guys are successfull in defeating the other team, that is all that matters!!!!!
Click to expand...

Their defense was successfull at stopping Ricky. Opponents will try to mimick that defense and add wrinkles to stop the rest. All I'm saying is that we need to take a close look at this game tape and make sure that we come up with answers on how to score MORE points against this kind of defense. Eventually our defense will struggle and the offense will HAVE to post more than 23 points, whihc was the most all year by the way.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled with the win. I'm just "planning" for the future.
 
Putting 8 in the box to stop Ricky isn't some new fangled defense. Its what most teams do. The difference yesterday is that the Giants just happen to have a very talent front 7 so they were much more effective in doing it. Other teams will try to copy it much I doubt they have the same success.
 
Originally posted by dolfan4good


This had nothing to do with the officials...

I am willing to bet ALL of our opponents will now look at this tape and scheme their defense the same way with little quirks to match their personnel. And if they are succesful when our defense is having a bad game, you may see us get blown out.
Click to expand...

Funny, I'll bet almost every Dolphin O'Line player to a man would tell you differently... Are you saying they are all just making excuses? If they (the Giants) weren't doing it, then why did one guy get called for it twice after the Dolphins complained about it in the second half...? Is this the only team to ever stack the box with eight or more men? Hardly...

These two giants had spent the game being mauled by Giants linemen. ''They held illegally more than any team I've ever seen,'' Nails said. ``They'd just grab onto my helmet 30, 40 percent of the time.''
Click to expand...
(From this Article on the Herald site.)

But who knows... Maybe they are making excuses, I'll rewatch the game tonight and look more closely for these "holds" if for no other reason then to reassure myself of my point
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not everyone has the front 7 that the Giants do. Lets face it with Mike Barrow, Michael Strahan, Keith Hamilton (who surprisingly played, he was listed questionable), Cornelius Griffin, and Brandon Short the Giants have one of the better front 7's in all of football.

BTW, rushing 5 people is not a "gimmick" defense. A lot of teams rush 5 people. A lot of teams have at least one linebacker come in on a delayed blitz, or make his read and determine if any receiver will be his responsibility to cover and if not, he rushes. You can't sit there and say that rushing 5 people, even 6 people, is some special defense that no team is going to run all day. Most teams have the ability and the will to rush 5 for most downs if not all. The Eagles do it as easily as breathing. The offensive line works on blitz pickups constantly. They should have been prepared.

But like erralyn said, the defensive linemen were holding almost constantly all day not allowing OLmen to get out to their blocks. The refs actually called it TWICE which is a lot for one game. It just took a little while for the refs to wake up thats all. Its no big deal I don't see what people are complaining about. We scored 23 points and kept a damn near even time of possession. We ran the ball to the tune of 134 yards despite the fact that the Giants came in allowing only 90 yards rushing per game.

Did Ricky get those yards? No. Was he responsible for most of them? You're damn right he was. That 68 yard WR reverse not only displayed some HELLA good run blocking by the OL, WRs, and TE, but it also showed just how much the Giants were overpursuing Ricky Williams. Same thing with the fullback gives (3 for 15 yards) and Jay Fiedler's draw plays...as well as the fullback screens. I think other teams are going to look at that game and say to themselves fvck, I guess we can't just key on Ricky Williams because then Norv Turner will do THIS to us.
 
If I remember correctly, New England sold out to stop the run the first time they played the Dolphins last year. Ricky's stats were 36 rushes for 105 yards. Not a great yards-per-carry average, but enough to get the job done. So what happens in the first half of that fateful December game? New England is set up to stuff the run, and Norv kept them off-balance with several reverses and end-arounds early in that game. McKnight had a nice 15-20 yard one I think and Chambers had a huge 40+ yard one. I remember how much I loved the play-calling in that half. It was brilliant. Then in the second half they went away from that, the offense fell flat, and the game was lost.....

Having said that, I LOVED the reverse call yesterday. In fact, I think they should have called more of those. It might have kept the Giants' D off-balance and gotten Ricky some more yards. The most important thing, though, is that the Dolphins scored on two of their first three possessions of the second half, so the O got the job done when it had to.
 
Well you've just about got the nail on the head there. WR reverses are something that Norv has a history of doing when a team is overpursuing one runningback like Ricky Williams. He also does the FB gives but not so much with the Dolphins because despite Konrad's speed which is comparable to Ricky's, Rob is a fumbler even moreso than Ricky is.

In New England the front 7 really keyed on Ricky, made him go nowhere in the 1st quarter. In FACT, they nearly safetied him they were crashing into the backfield so consistently. Then Norv Turner decided to loosen them up by calling a WR reverse to Chris Chambers. Worked perfectly, he gained 30 yards I think. But the front 7 hadn't learned their lesson. So Norv called ANOTHER WR reverse immediately afterward, this one going for 10 yards. After that you could really see the defense deciding they needed to play honest. And the 2nd and 3rd Q is when Ricky did a whole lot of damage. But then in the 4th Q the Pats defense knew we were trying to run the ball out so they went back into stop Ricky mode...and instead of trying to burn them with WR reverses and fullback screens/runs etc, we continued trying to run Ricky until we were backed on our own goal line. That was when we were caught in a vice. Ricky damn near already got safetied once already so I can't blame the coaches for not wanting to run Ricky when the D was keying on him so heavily. They were also to close to the endzone to do an end-around, and running Rob Konrad would have been quite risky in itself. So they decided to see if our passing game could get us out of a bind but it was too late for that. The Patriots just by putting us in that situation with our backs to the goal line, already iced their opportunity to try and comeback to bring it to OT. Mark Royals helped them a bit tho.

I think the 2nd WR reverse was the real key in that game. Get burned once by an end-around and the D just thinks it could be a fluke cuz they were undisciplined. They continued to focus on Ricky even after the end-around. If Norv would have done it like twice in a row to prove to the D they were making a costly error, I think Ricky would have been freed up to run all over them. As it was, he did gain some good yardage when it counted, in the 4th quarter. He ran 8 times for 29 yards and a TD in the 4th quarter while the game was still up in the air (he ran twice for 2 yards on our last drive where there was only 2 minutes left and we were running out the clock purposely not trying to get a TD so as to be polite). Considering a couple of those runs were right on the goal line trying to get the TD, and he DID in fact get the TD, thats pretty good production in the 4th quarter compared to what he did the rest of the time.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
He ran 8 times for 29 yards and a TD in the 4th quarter while the game was still up in the air (he ran twice for 2 yards on our last drive where there was only 2 minutes left and we were running out the clock purposely not trying to get a TD so as to be polite). Considering a couple of those runs were right on the goal line trying to get the TD, and he DID in fact get the TD, thats pretty good production in the 4th quarter compared to what he did the rest of the time.
Click to expand...

Ricky's fourth quarter success could also have something to do with the fact that by this time the Refs were on to the Giants "holding tendencies" and after being flagged twice for it they had to stop, enabling our O'Linemen to get on their blocks and Ricky to get honest yards.
 
That is true. And also, the Giants defense this year is known for running out of gas in the 4th quarter. I'm sure that also had something to do with it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom