J.J. a littled overrated in drafting | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

J.J. a littled overrated in drafting

CD13

FinHeaven VIP
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
0
Age
48
Location
Vestal NY
1999

1a TO SAN FRANCISCO in '99 draft trade-down (24)
1b TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (27)
2a J.J. Johnson (39) RB Mississippi State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
2b Rob Konrad (43) FB Syracuse
(from Kansas City in '99 draft trade-up)
2c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (54)
3a TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (70)
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3b x-Grey Ruegamer (72) C Arizona State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (84)
4 TO MINNESOTA for signing Hunter Goodwin (120)
5a Cecil Collins (134) RB McNeese State
(from San Francisco in '99 draft trade-down)
5b Bryan Jones (142) LB Oregon State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
5c TO SAN FRANCISCO for Kevin Gogan (157)
6 Brent Bartholomew (192) P Ohio State
7a TO N.Y. GIANTS for Tyrone Wheatley (231)
7b y-Jermaine Haley (232) DT Butte College
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
7c z-Joe Wong (244) T Brigham Young
(compensatory pick from NFL)

This draft is terrible -- all the tradedowns for what ? Konrad was alright, but even he was not a legit second round pick. Some of Dave's drafts were better than this one, and well that is kind of sad. I am very happy with Saban's first draft.
 

miami_mi

Scout Team
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
297
Reaction score
0
True, but he still was able to get a few gems for us, but all in all if you include the dallas years, he was a pretty good evaluator of talent. He can't be on the money all the time, it's to bad it was with us that year. I believe he did give Wanny a good team to build on. Wanny just wasn't the best at finding gems.
 

FIREMEDIC822

New Era
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
236
Reaction score
0
Age
46
Location
Seminole, FL
miami_mi said:
True, but he still was able to get a few gems for us, but all in all if you include the dallas years, he was a pretty good evaluator of talent. He can't be on the money all the time, it's too bad it was with us that year.

agree 100%. All JJ did was build the Dallas dynasty of the 90's and put our top 10 defense together through the draft.
 

LostInPatsLand

Pro Bowler
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
1,502
Reaction score
49
Age
47
You picked his worst draft to back up your point. That's not fair.
 

Ferretsquig

Perennial All-Pro
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Messages
8,003
Reaction score
558
Location
Carolina
I think every good evaluator is allowed 1 bad draft out of 10. JJ consistantly got 3 starters and 1 star out of every draft. I would of taken that over the crap that they have drafted since he left.

And Collins had talent. I know he turned out to be a headcase but I was certain he was going to be our starter that year. If that idiot could of just kept out of his girlfriends house he could of been a good player.
 

Buddwalk

The Jukebox Hero
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
14,118
Reaction score
90
Age
32
Location
East Berlin, PA
FIREMEDIC822 said:
agree 100%. All JJ did was build the Dallas dynasty of the 90's and put our top 10 defense together through the draft.

100% agreed...but as a coach he was never able to succesfully work with marino

JJ loved running the ball to death but we didnt have a runningback to do that and we had marino...so many times i remember marino having to bail jj out by coming back in the 4th quarter and winning games when they could of led by 2 tds going into the 4th if marino had been throwing the ball more
 

FIREMEDIC822

New Era
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
236
Reaction score
0
Age
46
Location
Seminole, FL
Buddwalk said:
100% agreed...but as a coach he was never able to succesfully work with marino

JJ loved running the ball to death but we didnt have a runningback to do that and we had marino...so many times i remember marino having to bail jj out by coming back in the 4th quarter and winning games when they could of led by 2 tds going into the 4th if marino had been throwing the ball more

That is true. The guy was talking about JJ as a drafter and that is what I was commenting on. I cant stand JJ for how he treated Marino. If he would of used him right he might of had another year in him.
 

dlockz

Hall Of Famer
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
52,028
Reaction score
3,868
Age
55
Location
Tampa Fl
1 bad draft in 10 surely u jest. He did pick some good players but wasted alot of high picks on pure busts.

1999 James Johnson high second round and Grey Ruegemeyer 3rd

1998 John Avery 1st round did ok but traded for a total scrub after one year ugh
Kenny Mixon 2nd round ok player who did little here and is almost out of league
Brad Jackson 3rd round did not make team
Larry Shannon 3rd round maybe 20 catches in career

1997 this draft produced some really great players that fell in draft but
Yatil Green 1st round no need to comment
Ronnie Ward 3rd round never played
Brent Smith 3rd rounder Is he still in nfl never was a good player

Jerome Daniels 4th round cut same year

1996 some real studs but some real high duds not even a contributer
Dorien brew 3rd round did not make team
Kirk Pointer 4th round did not make team
Lacurtis Jones 4th round did not make team

So even though he had some major hits his misses were major to our downfall

3rd rounders should at least make the team. He liked many of these guys better than the ones that turned out to be really good.
 

miami_mi

Scout Team
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
297
Reaction score
0
Larry Shannon didn't JJ say he was as good as Moss. Sounds like Matt Jones if you read his bio doesn't it:

LARRY SHANNON

This is a player that has dropped off the face of the earth on many draft boards after being fairly highly touted entering the 1997 season, and he certainly didn’t help his case by not working out at the combine...to his defense, he had a mediocre senior year because of ankle problems and never really played totally healthy...he only caught 21 passes per 308 yds. and 1 TD, after posting much bigger numbers in 1995 and 1996...the only reason he stays this high on the board is his potential, he has great size, he is a big time leaper (supposedly over 40 inches), and he has exc 40 times in his past background...he has always been a deep threat and he is such a big target he can out muscle and out jump many defenders...he has the ability to shield DBs from the ball and make the tough catch in traffic...however he is somewhat of a straight line player that doesn’t have great adjust and doesn’t look natural running his routes...he may be a guy that builds speed as he goes and is faster than quick...he does not look real natural catching the ball and is not consistant enough at this stage...it is difficult to know what you’re getting with this player on draft day...there is a lot of upside, in terms of raw AA and size, but he has not been productive in quite awhile and his lack of quickness and niftiness may prevent him from being anything more than a big WR that can deep on occasion...beauty is in the eyes of the beholder with this guy.
 

Dmarino110

Starter
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
2,192
Reaction score
44
The draft is all about Luck, but so is free agency. As we know so well, a player can blow his knee out the forst day of camp (Yatil Gree or David Boston)

Or we can pick guys like ZT and JT.

What Jimmy found out he couldnt do was Pull another Hershall Walker with Marino. Just like in cards, its better to be lucky then good, and JJ got lucky a lot
 

finfansince72

Starter
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
6,626
Reaction score
0
Age
49
JJ was terrible at judging offensive talent in Miami. That was his downfall. He got extremely lucky in Dallas having top draft picks like Aikman (nobrainer), having Emmitt fall into his lap, and getting a seriously lopsided trade for Herchel. He also had the luxury of an owner that spent more than anyone else in an era without the cap. JJ's problem was that he could never find great offensive players, they were almost all reaches. He was great however, at judging defensive talent. We always had legit franchise level talent on defense in his tenure.
 

Y-TownPhinVet

35 years and counting
Joined
Apr 11, 2004
Messages
536
Reaction score
0
Age
56
Location
Youngstown, Ohio
Here's what I think of Jimmy Johnsons ability to evaluate talent, and coach. :shakeno: No Dolphin SuperBowl trips, didn't let his players play to their talents (see Dan the Man), and lost his last game with all his evaluations 62-7! :fire: Anyone who defends him should really look at his accomplishments from a better set of glasses.
 

Ohio Fanatic

FinHeaven VIP
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
2,891
Reaction score
1
Location
Concord, MA
CD13 said:
1999

1a TO SAN FRANCISCO in '99 draft trade-down (24)
1b TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (27)
2a J.J. Johnson (39) RB Mississippi State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
2b Rob Konrad (43) FB Syracuse
(from Kansas City in '99 draft trade-up)
2c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (54)
3a TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (70)
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3b x-Grey Ruegamer (72) C Arizona State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (84)
4 TO MINNESOTA for signing Hunter Goodwin (120)
5a Cecil Collins (134) RB McNeese State
(from San Francisco in '99 draft trade-down)
5b Bryan Jones (142) LB Oregon State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
5c TO SAN FRANCISCO for Kevin Gogan (157)
6 Brent Bartholomew (192) P Ohio State
7a TO N.Y. GIANTS for Tyrone Wheatley (231)
7b y-Jermaine Haley (232) DT Butte College
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
7c z-Joe Wong (244) T Brigham Young
(compensatory pick from NFL)

This draft is terrible -- all the tradedowns for what ? Konrad was alright, but even he was not a legit second round pick. Some of Dave's drafts were better than this one, and well that is kind of sad. I am very happy with Saban's first draft.

:shakeno: Not fair to base his talent on a single year, matter of fact, it's pretty naive. Yes, this wasn't a good year, but look at our friggin defense, it's built around studs that Jimmy drafted (Zach, JT, Sam Madison) ALso, our 2nd round pick this year was from trading Pat, a person Jimmy drafted. Just the fact that they are still starting after this many years shows what kind of players he drafted. ANd even the 1999 draft, Konrad was very talented, but never used right by Wanny the idiot and you can't anticipate him being injured all the time, he was healthy in college. Ruegemer is still a quality starter in this league and is better than our current center. Jermaine Haley was a great player considering he was drafted in the 7th round.
 

OrangeCrush

☠️ Banned ☠️
Joined
Aug 21, 2004
Messages
274
Reaction score
0
Location
M-i-a-m-i
CD13 said:
This draft is terrible -- all the tradedowns for what ? Konrad was alright, but even he was not a legit second round pick. Some of Dave's drafts were better than this one, and well that is kind of sad. I am very happy with Saban's first draft.

Since you like to judge people in their worst year, then Billick (sp?) is an overrated coach....he was like 4-12 with the Browns. Very accurate assumption.
 
Top Bottom