J.J. a littled overrated in drafting | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

J.J. a littled overrated in drafting

JJ was a very solid drafter. Also, get over the "he ruined Dan" kick. He kept Dan for two years longer than he should have only out of respect to try and win a championship. I think Dan is the best, but the guy had no interest in building or using a running game - that's why Dan's audibles were taken away. I remember insiders posting, years ago, that Dan would actually get up and leave the offensive meetings when the topic turned to the running game.

Objectively looking at Dan over the last two seasons - he could barely walk, let alone run; couldn'y move to the RB quick enough to even attempt any form of play-fake and telegraphed every single hand-off. Coud he still throw? - Sure, but how many years of that not advancing the team in the playoofs had we seen? Take the Dan goggles off folks - he was overdue to be replaced.

IMO - and again all due respect to Dan - JJ's biggest mistake was staying too loyal to him and the Dolphin fans when it became obvious that Dan's injuries just took too much away from his game.

By the way - Cecil Collins was the real deal for the four games he started prior to getting hurt and then reverting to his bad ways.:shakeno:
 
CD13 said:
1999

1a TO SAN FRANCISCO in '99 draft trade-down (24)
1b TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (27)
2a J.J. Johnson (39) RB Mississippi State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
2b Rob Konrad (43) FB Syracuse
(from Kansas City in '99 draft trade-up)
2c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (54)
3a TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (70)
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3b x-Grey Ruegamer (72) C Arizona State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (84)
4 TO MINNESOTA for signing Hunter Goodwin (120)
5a Cecil Collins (134) RB McNeese State
(from San Francisco in '99 draft trade-down)
5b Bryan Jones (142) LB Oregon State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
5c TO SAN FRANCISCO for Kevin Gogan (157)
6 Brent Bartholomew (192) P Ohio State
7a TO N.Y. GIANTS for Tyrone Wheatley (231)
7b y-Jermaine Haley (232) DT Butte College
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
7c z-Joe Wong (244) T Brigham Young
(compensatory pick from NFL)

This draft is terrible -- all the tradedowns for what ? Konrad was alright, but even he was not a legit second round pick. Some of Dave's drafts were better than this one, and well that is kind of sad. I am very happy with Saban's first draft.
Click to expand...
Rob Konrad had loads of talent coming out of college. I still say Cecil Collins was a good pick in the 5th round he had his shot but ****ed it up himself. Jermaine was a good pick for the 7th round.
 
OrangeCrush said:
Since you like to judge people in their worst year, then Billichek (sp?) is an overrated coach....he was like 4-12 with the Browns. Very accurate assumption.
Click to expand...

It's not like Bellicheck's drafts are perfect either. He's made some really questionable moves last coupe years especially with Mankins and Watson, especially Watson. I hate it when someone says but they're perfect they won the Superbowl again. Well guess what that doesn't mean they draft perfectly so stop giving them A grades. They get their players out of FA heavily.
 
Jaj said:
It's not like Bellicheck's drafts are perfect either. He's made some really questionable moves last coupe years especially with Mankins and Watson, especially Watson. I hate it when someone says but they're perfect they won the Superbowl again. Well guess what that doesn't mean they draft perfectly so stop giving them A grades. They get their players out of FA heavily.
Click to expand...
:yes: once again jaj we completely agree. Why get watson so high when you have Graham and Fauria plus you like to use defensive players in goalline as TEs? I thought Mankins was better suited as a late second round pick. I thought Barnes and Terry were and will be better OTs.
 
JJ was a great--yes, I said great--draftsman during his time in Dallas and his earlier days in Miami. During his last two drafts, JJ started getting impatient when he was finding out it's much harder to make an above-average team great (Miami) than a crappy team (Dallas) because of the way the draft system works. He more recklessly sought to hit home runs in the draft, and ended up with many more strike outs. (Cecil Collins is the most obvious example). Of course, JJ burned out by the end of the third season but forced himself to linger for an additional year, which was a mistake. If he didn't burn out and if he didn't get desperate, I guarantee our drafts over the last 7 years would have been much, much better, and we eventually would have been made great by them.
 
Why is everyone defending JJ so much? We didn't do **** while he was here or since he's left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!aaaaahhh!!!! EEEhhhhhh!!!!!!!oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh1!!!!!!!!!
 
Johnson was anything but loyal to Marino, I have never seen any coach put so much blame on his qb as Johnson did with Marino. Even so called washed up Marino won two afc player of the week awards in his last season which was easily his worst although much of it can be contributed to injury. Marino said himself he would hand off all game if that's what it took to win unfortunately our line could not produce the running game that Jimmy was used to and running off tackle right three times in a row is not usually a good idea. Jimmy was an awful coach for us and and is nothing but a quitter who never took repsonsibility for our team not going to next level. I was one of the few people who cringed when we signed Johnson to coach.
 
dlockz said:
Johnson was anything but loyal to Marino, I have never seen any coach put so much blame on his qb as Johnson did with Marino. Even so called washed up Marino won two afc player of the week awards in his last season which was easily his worst although much of it can be contributed to injury. Marino said himself he would hand off all game if that's what it took to win unfortunately our line could not produce the running game that Jimmy was used to and running off tackle right three times in a row is not usually a good idea. Jimmy was an awful coach for us and and is nothing but a quitter who never took repsonsibility for our team not going to next level. I was one of the few people who cringed when we signed Johnson to coach.
Click to expand...

Thats right, I remember Karim Abdul Jabbar up the middle for 3 and out! Eventually Marino had to throw! KArim up the middle for 1 yard! 2nd and 9, Its Karim up the middle for a yard and a half! 3rd and long, will Marino throw? Nope its Karim up the middle for 2 and the Dolphins punt again!
 
You build your team through the first four rounds of the draft. And JJ was terrible at that in Miami. What was alarming was how many of his high picks never even made the team, or made the team but made no contribution whatsoever. Yes, he drafted JT, Zach, Madison, and Surtain. But, he wasted a lot more picks than he hit on.
 
CD13 said:
1999

1a TO SAN FRANCISCO in '99 draft trade-down (24)
1b TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (27)
2a J.J. Johnson (39) RB Mississippi State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
2b Rob Konrad (43) FB Syracuse
(from Kansas City in '99 draft trade-up)
2c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (54)
3a TO DETROIT in '99 draft trade-down (70)
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3b x-Grey Ruegamer (72) C Arizona State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
3c TO KANSAS CITY in '99 draft trade-up (84)
4 TO MINNESOTA for signing Hunter Goodwin (120)
5a Cecil Collins (134) RB McNeese State
(from San Francisco in '99 draft trade-down)
5b Bryan Jones (142) LB Oregon State
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
5c TO SAN FRANCISCO for Kevin Gogan (157)
6 Brent Bartholomew (192) P Ohio State
7a TO N.Y. GIANTS for Tyrone Wheatley (231)
7b y-Jermaine Haley (232) DT Butte College
(from Detroit in '99 draft trade-down)
7c z-Joe Wong (244) T Brigham Young
(compensatory pick from NFL)

This draft is terrible -- all the tradedowns for what ? Konrad was alright, but even he was not a legit second round pick. Some of Dave's drafts were better than this one, and well that is kind of sad. I am very happy with Saban's first draft.
Click to expand...


You really have to look at who he traded for and why, who else was available and who was already on the team...I don't have all the answers to refute this particular draft, but will say that Reugamer is still playing in the league, Konrad WAS a legit 2nd round pick but injuries and poor use of his skills cost us a better return for him. Haley was decent, but not spectacular and I believe is still playing in the league. Tyrone Wheatley never got a chance here, because we drafted JJ and the Diesel...the Diesel could have been more productive for us, but his off-field antics got in the way. JJ was just a bust. Hunter Goodwin and Gogan gave us a decent year or couple of years but moved on. Besides, JJ operated under the guise that if you picked enough players, some would work out for you...he had the base for a pretty solid team in place and wanted to add to it's depth...was it a fantastic draft ?? No, but it served it's purpose...
 
Besides that, I don't think that JJ was that good of an evaluator...I always felt he would have done better with a stronger personnel guy, but wouldn't relinquish the power on any of the teams he was with...BUT he was a hell of an X's and O's coach who knew how to motivate and coach his staff and his players.
 
Martel said:
Why is everyone defending JJ so much? We didn't do **** while he was here or since he's left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!aaaaahhh!!!! EEEhhhhhh!!!!!!!oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh1!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Because he fixed Shu's mess.

If he didn't lose his passion for football after his mother died in '97 odds are we have another title by now.
 
dlockz said:
Johnson was anything but loyal to Marino, I have never seen any coach put so much blame on his qb as Johnson did with Marino. Even so called washed up Marino won two afc player of the week awards in his last season which was easily his worst although much of it can be contributed to injury. Marino said himself he would hand off all game if that's what it took to win unfortunately our line could not produce the running game that Jimmy was used to and running off tackle right three times in a row is not usually a good idea. Jimmy was an awful coach for us and and is nothing but a quitter who never took repsonsibility for our team not going to next level. I was one of the few people who cringed when we signed Johnson to coach.
Click to expand...

Simply not true. And in fact both men were loyal to each other. That is why Marino and Huizenga begged JJ to stay for the '99 season.

I have NEVER seen something so misunderstood in my life. We can thank our lying local press for this one. JJ went after his QB's, that is just the type of coach he was. Personally I like HC's like that. I think they best way to handle most QB's to apply pressure to them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom