jake long is not joe thomas

[PerfectTeam]

I know and respect Gil Brandt's opinion above many. But because one person says that about him doesn't mean there are no negatives. Have you not heard the "experts" say that you should beware of athletes who have big senior seasons when their production before that was average at best. That throws a lot of ? marks into Chris Long, don't you think? My point being, there is no candidate that hasn't had some criticism about their abilities or production. Period. End of Story. We could argue all day LONG (no pun intended) about this but the fact remains that the draft is nothing but a crap shoot.

Take into account again, the fact that Long played at a positioin which isnt known for producing big sack numbers. Yet he did it. The years leading up to that, he had something like 50 QB pressures. Pressures are almost as good as sacks. They usually disrupt the timing of the play and force a mistake or an errant throw. Plus he had good amount of tackles the first couple of years. So to see he was a one year wonder would be incorrect. So kind of eliminates your question mark about him.

As for the Gil Brandt thing, tell me where he or anyone else has said that about any other prospect this year?

 

[PerfectTeam]

I'm glad you like it, because it proves you are wrong about him only playing RE. it also shows that if he got sacks from LE, he no doubt got his pressure from the other side too. sorry to use facts to debunk your swayed opinion.
Heyward blew him back? great, too bad he couldn't finish.

Did I say he only played RE or did I say he played it most of the game? Might want to read more carefully. So Heyward didnt get to the QB because he got rid of it in a hurry? Tell me again what your trying to prove, because your argument is looking fairly weak again. Point is Heyward and Shaughnessy got pressure on the QB thru Long. Again your using an overrated stat to further a weak argument. Here is an interesting quote from PFW.

However, as illustrated against Wisconsin last week, and even against the Buckeyes last year, Long will struggle with speed off the edge and may best project to the right side on the next level. He does not have the feet to consistently contend with speed rushers, and if off balance, does not have the agility to recover. Against relatively slow-footed Wisconsin DE Matt Shaughnessy, Long struggled to keep his feet, and was at times top-heavy, lunging in pass protection rather than engaging the defender.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/College+Football/College+Football+Extras/2007/wellner111507.htm

Again illustrating my points about him. Like I said, sacks can be an overrated stat. If thats the only argument you can make though, I guess thats fine.

 

[PerfectTeam]

projections are simply predictions, we will see who is better. in terms of college careers, you have already conceded Jake is better

where did he say that again? Dont quite see how he conceded that.

 

[The Juggernaut]

Every scout in the world knows Thomas is a better prospect b/c he can deal with speed rushers which you need as a LT in the NFL, college stats at that level are not as important as what these guys actually show on tape. Thomas has the abilities to be an elite LT in the NFL because of his combination of speed, good footwork and strength, Jake Long is still questionable because of his lack of athleticism and foot work.

 

[PerfectTeam]

Every scout in the world knows Thomas is a better prospect b/c he can deal with speed rushers which you need as a LT in the NFL, college stats at that level are not as important as what these guys actually show on tape. Thomas has the abilities to be an elite LT in the NFL because of his combination of speed, good footwork and strength, Jake Long is still questionable because of his lack of athleticism and foot work.

but he only gave up 2 sacks.

 

[Marino Forever]

Take into account again, the fact that Long played at a positioin which isnt known for producing big sack numbers. Yet he did it. The years leading up to that, he had something like 50 QB pressures. Pressures are almost as good as sacks. They usually disrupt the timing of the play and force a mistake or an errant throw. Plus he had good amount of tackles the first couple of years. So to see he was a one year wonder would be incorrect. So kind of eliminates your question mark about him.

As for the Gil Brandt thing, tell me where he or anyone else has said that about any other prospect this year?

First of all, what position on defense would produce more sacks than a DE? And from reading your other comments, all stats could be considered a bad way to evaluate a player, especially a pressure. A DE can pressure a QB and he can still throw a TD but the DE is still credited with a pressure. So what does that do to your 50 pressures stat? How many times did Chris sack the QB before his senior season? Not many, 8 to be exact in those 3 seasons compared to his 14 his senior year.

Besides Gil Brandt, have you heard any other expert say that Chris is a no miss prospect?

 

[PerfectTeam]

First of all, what position on defense would produce more sacks than a DE? And from reading your other comments, all stats could be considered a bad way to evaluate a player, especially a pressure. A DE can pressure a QB and he can still throw a TD but the DE is still credited with a pressure. So what does that do to your 50 pressures stat? How many times did Chris sack the QB before his senior season? Not many, 8 to be exact in those 3 seasons compared to his 14 his senior year.

Besides Gil Brandt, have you heard any other expert say that Chris is a no miss prospect?

Well in the 3-4 they play at Virginia, an end doesnt pressure or sack the QB that often. Thats usually the job of the OLB.

My point about the stats is thats all he used. He had no other argument other than to read off a stat sheet. Where did I say all stats are overrated by the way as well? Just looking at stats is overrated.

Point I was making about the pressure stat is that he was in the backfield plenty. You dont need a sack to interrupt a play.

As for the Gil Brandt comment, we can back and forth about finding another quote about having no negatives. Again though I ask, find one quote that says that about any other prospect.

 

[Marino Forever]

Well in the 3-4 they play at Virginia, an end doesnt pressure or sack the QB that often. Thats usually the job of the OLB.

My point about the stats is thats all he used. He had no other argument other than to read off a stat sheet. Where did I say all stats are overrated by the way as well? Just looking at stats is overrated.

Point I was making about the pressure stat is that he was in the backfield plenty. You dont need a sack to interrupt a play.

As for the Gil Brandt comment, we can back and forth about finding another quote about having no negatives. Again though I ask, find one quote that says that about any other prospect.

You definetly know what you are talking about, and I am not being sarcastic. The funny thing is I would be happy with either Long. I just think we have a greater need on the OL than we do on defense, especially an OLB. There is no doubt in my mind that Chris will be a monster, I was only playing devils advocate about him because I think Jake will be a huge upgrade for our OL. Thank you for your insightful comments and for not making this personal.

 

[PerfectTeam]

You definetly know what you are talking about, and I am not being sarcastic. The funny thing is I would be happy with either Long. I just think we have a greater need on the OL than we do on defense, especially an OLB. There is no doubt in my mind that Chris will be a monster, I was only playing devils advocate about him because I think Jake will be a huge upgrade for our OL. Thank you for your insightful comments and for not making this personal.

I agree completely that OL is a huge need for this team. The thing is I want it done right. I dont want to take an OL for the sake of taking an OL. I want to know that we are getting a LT that is going to protect the blindside and do it well. Can Jake Long do it? He very well could. Is he a franchise LT? No. I dont think so. Thats my problem with him. At the top of the draft with that kind of money being spent, I want it spent on a franchise LT. To me right now Jake Long is no better than Vernon Carey at LT spot.

 

[rent this space]

Jake had a better college career but Thomas didn't have questions about his athleticism and ability to handle speed rushers in the NFL at this point. Thomas combine showed he would be elite at the NFL level where he put on an amazing performance. Jake will be a great run blocker but pass protection against strong speed rushers like the majority of pass rushers in the NFL?

since you asked...

 

[PerfectTeam]

since you asked...

fair enough.

 

[rent this space]

Every scout in the world knows Thomas is a better prospect b/c he can deal with speed rushers which you need as a LT in the NFL, college stats at that level are not as important as what these guys actually show on tape. Thomas has the abilities to be an elite LT in the NFL because of his combination of speed, good footwork and strength, Jake Long is still questionable because of his lack of athleticism and foot work.

if every scout in the world thinks Long is questionable, why is he at he top of a draft with the best OT talent in years, some say the best in a generation? none of us has access to the real scouting reports done by people actually working in the NFL. those guys seem to disagree with your point of view. we can only see and hear what the media types write or say. if they really were that good at it, they wouldn't be writing for a website.

 

[PerfectTeam]

if every scout in the world thinks Long is questionable, why is he at he top of a draft with the best OT talent in years, some say the best in a generation? none of us has access to the real scouting reports done by people actually working in the NFL. those guys seem to disagree with your point of view. we can only see and hear what the media types write or say. if they really were that good at it, they wouldn't be writing for a website.

Wow. In a generation? Really? I absolutely would love to see one credible source that has said that. To make that kind of assertion is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[rent this space]

Wow. In a generation? Really? I absolutely would love to see one credible source that has said that. To make that kind of assertion is absolutely ridiculous.

is the General Manager of the Pittsburgh Steelers good enough for you?

"It's the best group I've seen in 24 years collectively," Pittsburgh Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert said. "It was a good group before the juniors were added to it. Those guys enhanced what we think is a really strong group."

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10758110/rss

as I said, the people who are actually employed in the NFL seem to disagree with your sportswriters and bloggers

 

[PerfectTeam]

is the General Manager of the Pittsburgh Steelers good enough for you?

"It's the best group I've seen in 24 years collectively," Pittsburgh Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert said. "It was a good group before the juniors were added to it. Those guys enhanced what we think is a really strong group."

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10758110/rss

as I said, the people who are actually employed in the NFL seem to disagree with your sportswriters and bloggers

Fair enough. I stand corrected. However here is a quote from personnel directors on Long from your article.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Most scouts I spoke to don't think Long is quite in the same class. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] "He's not as tough," one personnel director said. "Long's a good player, but not Thomas good."[/FONT]


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