James Walker (ESPN) thinks Miami has a QB controversy

[hoops]

My honest opinion, and this is just an opinion, is that if Garrard wins the job then Matt Moore will not be happy about it and he might let his displeasure be known. He might be a distraction. He may even request a trade.

He's been waiting a while for the opportunity he had last year and from his perspective, after the first 3.5 games of suckitude which I'm sure he justifies to himself as reasonable because he was just trying to get used to the system and his players, he hit it out of the park over the last 9 games with 61% completion, 7.7 YPA, 15 TDs and 5 INTs with a 6-3 record and a 97.8 passer rating. He'd probably prefer you not think about the 136 sack yards he lost over that period, or his 10 fumbles, of course. He's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, and the clock is really ticking for him. Losing this competition and sitting third seat to Tannehill since they may want to get the young stud the primary backup's snaps, could be catastrophic to Moore's career.

Garrard on the other hand doesn't have much career left. If he loses, he loses. He seems very mature about it and the bottom line is his losing this competition isn't going to affect the next 7 years of his potential career, unlike Moore. It'll just affect the next 1 or 2 years he has remaining to him.

---------- Post added at 01:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------



Obviously you've never spoken to NFL veterans about injuries.

bingo...but what do you get for him in trade anyways...a 5th round pick MAYBE...that's probably pushing it to be honest

 

[ckparrothead]

Totally agree with Slimm and ck about Thomas. Very underwhelming guy at the time and has lived up to the billing so far.

I will say that both I and ck were very high on Delone Carter, taken in the 4th. If anything he's been even more disappointing, but at least he didn't cost the Colts a second like Thomas cost us.

Delone Carter was nothing special in Indy, but I think he was a sight better than Daniel Thomas. He played behind a worse line, in a worse offense, on a worse team. He broke more tackles on a per play basis. He gained more yards after contact. I know there's this excitement about Donald Brown but without that one 80 yard run Brown is a 4.2 yard per carry runner. We talked about excluding special situations late in a game up or down by 7+ points, and also excluding red zone, Brown is a 4.3 yard per carry runner in those non-special situation...whereas Addai was like a 3.6 yard per carry guy in those non-special situations...and so when you put that into context, it makes Delone's 4.0 yards per carry in non-special situations much more understandable than Daniel Thomas' 4.0 behind a Miami OL that paved 5.3 yards per carry for Reggie Bush.

I think Delone could resurface. We'll see on Daniel Thomas.

Think we've done DT to death at this point. What about the so-called QB controversy? Personally, can't see it myself, as per my past email, in the midst of the RB chat. Thoughts?

I've already addressed this in several posts, if you read up a little bit. It's a matter of opinion. I think there absolutely is a QB controversy.

 

[ckparrothead]

bingo...but what do you get for him in trade anyways...a 5th round pick MAYBE...that's probably pushing it to be honest

With him being on the last year of his contract, you'd be lucky to get anything for him...UNLESS Peyton Manning suffers a setback. In that case you could get a lot more for him than you'd think.

 

[NY8123]

I've already addressed this in several posts, if you read up a little bit. It's a matter of opinion. I think there absolutely is a QB controversy.

I don't like the term controversy, there isn't a controversy simply because no one can tell me who the starting QB actually is at this point. There was no named incumbent starter and from day 1 Philbin said it was a on open competition.

If it is an open competition than it cannot be a controversy. Controversies lead to headlines and more readers, competition is a daily venue navigated by everyone so it is less jaw dropping to read and that's the only reason it is labeled a "controversy" at this point.

 

[CANDolphan]

i take it you're not a michael egnew guy...me either...

Not. At. All. He's the textbook definition of a workout warrior. Even his "highlights" show VERY little separation against linebackers. In College. In a weak conference. How am I to expect him to RIP OPEN SEAMS against the likes of Mayo and Kirk Morrison? I just flat out do not understand the pick.

 

[ckparrothead]

Daniel Thomas had the only hamstring injury I've ever seen that lasted over a year. I'm not even trying to pick at him, that's literally the first time I've seen a hamstring problem last more than a year. He missed the January 2011 Senior Bowl because of it, missed the February 2011 Combine because of it, and dealt with it all the way through Week 17 (January 2012) of the regular season. No wonder he's excited to be healthy.

 

[hoops]

With him being on the last year of his contract, you'd be lucky to get anything for him...UNLESS Peyton Manning suffers a setback. In that case you could get a lot more for him than you'd think.

i wouldn't count on that...i hear peyton is blowing them away in workouts of late...i still don't think even if denver came a callin you get more than a 5th for him...

 

[hoops]

Not. At. All. He's the textbook definition of a workout warrior. Even his "highlights" show VERY little separation against linebackers. In College. In a weak conference. How am I to expect him to RIP OPEN SEAMS against the likes of Mayo and Kirk Morrison? I just flat out do not understand the pick.

that's what i'm saying...the guy doesn't play on tape to his combine #s...i have yet to see any real separation on any college tape from 2011...i like him better in 2010 when he was leaner more the 240 range...this 251 lb stuff i saw ehhh...and if he's never gonna block which is what he's never gonna do why not try and get yourself a less explosive version of aaron hernandez and ask him to drop some weight...i hated the pick...5th-6th round value in the 3rd round off combine #'s and measurables...i'm also concerned that his production reeks of a product of the system at missou

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I just do not know how you can say that especially when he played with through the injury anyway. Also (I have not counted them) but DT from what I watched was not asked to get fluff yardage last year. When they wanted to run the clock out or punch the ball in they took Bush out especially early in the year and brought DT in. Granted he was poor at getting it done too but lots of his running he was asked to do was not the style he was used to in college. Regardless before we start seeing a trend give it some time to see if there is really a trend again one of his positive traits from college was not getting injured or playing injured which he did do last year escpecially compared to the 4 backs drafted in front of him except Ingram whose stregths coming out of college was running between the tackles. If I remember right also Ingram plaing time came more at the end of the season than at the beginning of the season like Thomas if that was the case Ingram had more time to prepare to play in the NFL where DT was asked to carry the load early got beat us and paid the price. Regardless that excuse will go out the window this year with a full training camp so we will see the full story on DT barring a MAJOR injury.

That's simply not accurate. The bulk of Ingram's work came early in the season. He had 53 carries in weeks 1-4, and 32 carries in weeks 5-8. 85 of his 122 carries (or roughly 70%) came in the first half of the season. Ingram didn't have any carries in the last 4 games, and only had 37 carries total in the final 8 games.

Mark had to deal with injuries same as most everyone else in the league did.


I'm actually sitting directly on the fence with Daniel Thomas. He'll get another chance to show me he's a capable back. I liked Daniel Thomas as a prospect and had a 3rd round grade on him.

What I didn't like was the move to trade up for him when he wasn't even the best back on the board at the time, DeMarco Murray was. I made that point very clear from the start.

In fact, in this draft we have a thread in the draft forum partaining to this year's draft where I made the comment that I would prefer to see Ireland avoid doing something stupid on the 2nd day of the draft again. Wildbill asked me what would I consider a stupid move heading into the 2nd day..... I specifically said that trading up for a runningback who's not even the best back available would be a stupid move in my opinion, just like Ireland had done the draft prior when he traded up for Daniel Thomas..

You can find it all here...

.http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?319376-10-names-in-the-next-10-picks-you-want/page9



..low and behold, what did Ireland do... He traded up for a runningback that wasn't even the best runningback available. He traded up for Lamar Miller when Robert Turbin was still available. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Despite anyone who subscribes to the notion that Miami got a 1st round back in Lamar Miller, I vehemently disagree and always have. I believe the NFL essentially saw the same thing I saw in him, which is why he was still on the board in the 4th round.

 

[hoops]

i think lamar millers a little overrated around here also but i have a hard time watching that guys explosive qualities with the ball in his hands and seeing him on the board in the 4th round...that acceleration is sick...i heard there were some red flags for medical

can't argue with any robert turbin love...i think that guy ran like under 4.5 at like 240 lbs or something rediculous like that

 

[ckparrothead]

i wouldn't count on that...i hear peyton is blowing them away in workouts of late...i still don't think even if denver came a callin you get more than a 5th for him...

Hard to know who to trust. I've heard the opposite, that he's still 80-85 percent, and it's getting to the point Peyton will no longer put a percentage on it because he doesn't want the negative press. Daniel Jeremiah watched him throw at Manning Camp and said it was clear he wasn't cranking it up and was being very cautious with it.

 

[hoops]

Hard to know who to trust. I've heard the opposite, that he's still 80-85 percent, and it's getting to the point Peyton will no longer put a percentage on it because he doesn't want the negative press. Daniel Jeremiah watched him throw at Manning Camp and said it was clear he wasn't cranking it up and was being very cautious with it.

now that's interesting...come get matt moore denver ha ha ha

 

[ckparrothead]

Boy was I wrong about DeMarco Murray. I'll regret that one.

---------- Post added at 02:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

now that's interesting...come get matt moore denver ha ha ha

He knows the offense. He and Mike McCoy were together in Carolina. And of course his Head Coach was John Fox.

 

[hoops]

right now it looks like i was wrong about demarco murray also...but i don't think anyone envisioned him being a featured back...most looked at him as a 3rd down back and someone you'd give a few carries to here and there...ran with much better power and strength than i ever saw at oklahoma for dallas last year...i don't think the cowboys thought they were getting a 20 carry a game feature back when they took him in the 3rd round...but we'll see how healthy he stays...my biggest knock with him by far was health...didn't think he'd suit up enough to make it worth it...

 

[ckparrothead]

Well let me put it this way. There was a point in time when some were rating him a 1st/2nd round type of back, and I argued pretty squarely against that on the basis of him dancing too much for my tastes. I should have been arguing FOR that grade, based on what he's shown in the NFL. No two ways about it, wrong is wrong.