Jared Odrick: Underrated.

[So Be]

Not doing better than Jared Odricks is why Dolphins fans have had a bad taste in their mouth for 24 years. More like 34 years, actually. Not being able to point to his draft position as part of the evaluation is like saying that it shouldn't be part of the evaluation of a running back that he's making, say, $10 million a year. It's not just a talent evaluation, it's a cost/benefit analysis.

Like I said, I like Odrick. He's a high effort guy and a capable all around defender. But he's also -- at best -- the fifth DT in our division. I'd actually put him sixth, behind Starks, Wilkerson, Richardson, Dareus and Kyle Williams (I'm sure a few Patriots fans would quibble about me putting him above Wilfork, but at this point he's the better player, imo). I mean, if you really want to talk underrated, the guy you're looking for is Kyle Williams. He's the fastest DT off the ball the NFL has seen since Leon Lett.

When the player you want to flag as being underrated is fifth or sixth at his position in his own division... it speaks volumes about why we continue to have the kinds of seasons we have.

I agree on Starks and Darius. not the others and Williams played DE in Buff.

 

[TheWalrus]

I agree on Starks and Darius. not the others and Williams played DE in Buff.

Well then we completely disagree, because Dareus is probably the "worst" of the -- at minimum -- four DTs who are better than Odrick. Wilkerson is the best DT in the division without a doubt and is one of the best DTs in all of football. He's not quite JJ Watt but he's in the same conversation, imo, as much as it pains me to say.

Kyle Williams is a DT. You might be thinking of Mario Williams, who is a DE.

 

[So Be]

Well then we completely disagree, because Dareus is probably the "worst" of the -- at minimum -- four DTs who are better than Odrick. Wilkerson is the best DT in the division without a doubt and is one of the best DTs in all of football. He's not quite JJ Watt but he's in the same conversation, imo, as much as it pains me to say.

Kyle Williams is a DT. You might be thinking of Mario Williams, who is a DE.

In Buff's 3-4, Mario was an OLB, and Kyle a 3-4 DE. Same with Wilkerson. True story.

 

[TheWalrus]

In Buff's 3-4, Mario was an OLB, and Kyle a 3-4 DE. Same with Wilkerson. True story.

That is simplistic. The closest approximation of the role of a 3-4 DE is a 4-3 DT. There are teams that actually run a one gapping variant of the 3-4 where the comparison is even more one to one. In any case both the Bills and the Jets play with a multiple fronts, switching primarily to an four man front on passing downs/situations, where Wilkerson and Williams move inside to play the 3 tech (or one tech).

Fwiw the new defensive coordinator of the Bills is Jim Schwartz, who will move the Bills to a 4-3 full time.

 

[So Be]

That is simplistic. The closest approximation of the role of a 3-4 DE is a 4-3 DT. There are teams that actually run a one gapping variant of the 3-4 where the comparison is even more one to one. In any case both the Bills and the Jets play with a multiple fronts, switching primarily to an even front on passing downs/situations, where Wilkerson and Williams move inside to play the 3 tech.

Fwiw the new defensive coordinator of the Bills is Jim Schwartz, who will move the Bills to a 4-3 full time.

While true to a degree, the positions are defined as being different. Odrick was fair at best, as a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DE but is much improved as a 4-3 DT. IF the players mentioned were moved to 4-3 DT on most all snaps, their stats and game would change. You can't compare the positions.

 

[TheWalrus]

While true to a degree, the positions are defined as being different. Odrick was fair at best, as a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DE but is much improved as a 4-3 DT. IF the players mentioned were moved to 4-3 DT on most all snaps, their stats and game would change. You can't compare the positions.

By who? Statistical services? Ooookay, then.

Defining Wilkerson as a 3-4 DE and Odrick as a 4-3 DT is reductive and silly. Both players will two gap and one gap in the course of a game. They'll both play the five tech, three tech and one tech, depending on the situation. It is the nature of the job of an interior defensive lineman in the NFL today to be multiple and play in multiple fronts with multiple techniques. Defensive linemen like Geno Atkins -- who almost always single gaps as a one or three tech -- are more the exception than the rule.

If you want to stick to hard and fast definitions of these positions be my guest but it does not reflect reality.

 

[So Be]

By who? Statistical services? Ooookay, then.

Defining Wilkerson as a 3-4 DE and Odrick as a 4-3 DT is reductive and silly. Both players will two gap and one gap in the course a game. They'll both play one tech at times. It is the nature of the job of an interior defensive lineman in the NFL today to be multiple and play in multiple fronts with multiple techniques. Defensive linemen like Geno Smith -- who almost always two gaps as a one or three tech -- are more the exception than the rule.

If you want to stick to hard and fast definitions be my guest but it does not reflect reality.

Wilkerson had 11 sacks, 9 hits, and 32 hurries playing mostly as a 3-4 DE. Odrick had 5 sacks, 13 hits, and 28 hurries playing as a 4-3 DT. Which was more impressive in rushing the QB? Think Wilkerson would have done the same playing mostly inside? I do not.

 

[TheWalrus]

Wilkerson had 11 sacks, 9 hits, and 32 hurries playing mostly as a 3-4 DE. Odrick had 5 sacks, 13 hits, and 28 hurries playing as a 4-3 DT. Which was more impressive in rushing the QB? Think Wilkerson would have done the same playing mostly inside? I do not.

If you knew what you were talking about you'd be aware that the responsibility of a 5 technique (the technique associated with a 3-4 DE) is to be responsible for two gaps... which actually makes it harder for them to rush the passer, not easier. Wilkerson makes most of his plays on the quarterback when he's single gapping in a four man front (sometimes they go to a 4-3 over or under -- which looks like a five man front -- depending on the situation, but it's still one gapping), since that's what the Jets shift to most often in passing situations.

There are about a million online resources for you to read about the responsibilities and techniques of the various fronts and positions. Feel free to avail yourself of one of them.

 

[spiketex]

When you watch the best FS and arguably the best young WR in the game do things at positions of need for us . . . it just defines the type of mindset we had and the reason why we have underachieved for so long. I mean we traded down to draft what was already arguably our strongest position on the team and passed on difference makers at the skill positions.

It sucks . . . it doesn't take anything away from Jared Odrick, who is a good player, but when you have a chance to take a top 5 BPA, you do have to make that move. This team has lacked difference makers and were allergic to them for quite some time.

Yes, they turned out to be elite players, but you should not look at Odrick as a bust. He should not have to wear the responsibility of a comparative what might have been and the fact is that we ended up with two good players (Odrick and Koa Misi) for trading down.
There are many other draft picks that can correctly be called busts, but it isn't Jared Odrick's fault that he's not as good as Earl Thomas. You were a better judge of talent than Jeff Ireland, that year, but to carry around your hate for Odrick all of these years later is waste of effort and not too smart. Please leave the past behind and be thankful that Odrick and Koa Misi are good long term contributors.

 

[hoops]

Not doing better than Jared Odricks is why Dolphins fans have had a bad taste in their mouth for 24 years. More like 34 years, actually. Not being able to point to his draft position as part of the evaluation is like saying that it shouldn't be part of the evaluation of a running back that he's making, say, $10 million a year. It's not just a talent evaluation, it's a cost/benefit analysis.

Like I said, I like Odrick. He's a high effort guy and a capable all around defender. But he's also -- at best -- the fifth DT in our division. I'd actually put him sixth, behind Starks, Wilkerson, Richardson, Dareus and Kyle Williams (I'm sure a few Patriots fans would quibble about me putting him above Wilfork, but at this point he's the better player, imo). I mean, if you really want to talk underrated, the guy you're looking for is Kyle Williams. He's the fastest DT off the ball the NFL has seen since Leon Lett.

When the player you want to flag as being underrated is fifth or sixth at his position in his own division... it speaks volumes about why we continue to have the kinds of seasons we have.

it's hard to argue with that although i think dareus has not really lived up to the hype as a prospect...good player and he gobbles up more blockers so kyle williams who is completely underrated gets good one on one looks to exploit...wilkerson i'm with you best in the division could be a little more consistent at times but that dudes legit...he's the only guy you can line up at de in that 34 and him work over tackles at times and win consistently much better on the edge talent rush wise than odrick was when asked to perform the same edge rush role for us 2 years ago...and i think starks is the one that gets a little too much love also personally...he does nothing when he gets extra attention...richardson is a premium talent for sure...he's just not a complete player right now but the ceiling is hellaciously high...

i don't have a problem with odrick being rated the 6th or later dt in the division...especially when odrick gets blown out in the run game every time he's doubled...but that's not his game anyways...it's not any of our dts game and teams will exploit it this year...

none of these guys are in jj watt territory though...closest right now would be wilkerson but that's a long shot at this point...watts provided he stays healthy going down as one of the best of all time...no one wrecks you like jj watt

if you are looking for underrated look no further than cam jordan of the saints...he's a complete 34 de now that he's been cast in the right system in new orleans...he just doesnt get a lot of help

 

[keithjackson]

I didn't think Jared Odrick was underrated until I read this thread. He's a vital piece of our defense, and, daresay, the most important cog of our Dline. He received 856 defensive snaps last year, which was 74.8% of all defensive snaps. Compare that 728 def snaps for Starks and 523 def snaps for Soliai.

I have mixed feelings about the 2010 draft. It would've been nice to get a star player like Earl Thomas, but I think people forget we drafted Reshad Jones late. The same Reshad Jones who outplayed Earl Thomas in 2012. The same Reshad Jones who was #5 DB in tackles this year, and only one of three DBs who played in 100% of their teams's defensive snaps (and only Dolphins player). I would dare to conjecture that if you put that Reshad Jones in the best secondary in the best defense in football, he'd put up similar numbers that Earl Thomas did this year.

Adding Koa Misi's upcoming role in the middle this season, that draft gave us the three linchpins of our defense.

And I would say all three are underrated.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

While I can't consider him a bust (martin was a bust) I don't think he has lived up to his draft status. I guess he is pretty much exactly the definition of a Ireland draft pick, safe, not flashy, not a game changer. Been in the league long enough to crack the starting lineup and hasn't. I fully expect Mitchell to start and wouldn't be surprised if Johnson pushes him for snaps. Would bother me in the least if he wasn't resigned.

Will never be a star. But he does seem to have a pretty good personality.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I didn't think Jared Odrick was underrated until I read this thread. He's a vital piece of our defense, and, daresay, the most important cog of our Dline. He received 856 defensive snaps last year, which was 74.8% of all defensive snaps. Compare that 728 def snaps for Starks and 523 def snaps for Soliai.

I have mixed feelings about the 2010 draft. It would've been nice to get a star player like Earl Thomas, but I think people forget we drafted Reshad Jones late. The same Reshad Jones who outplayed Earl Thomas in 2012. The same Reshad Jones who was #5 DB in tackles this year, and only one of three DBs who played in 100% of their teams's defensive snaps (and only Dolphins player). I would dare to conjecture that if you put that Reshad Jones in the best secondary in the best defense in football, he'd put up similar numbers that Earl Thomas did this year.

Adding Koa Misi's upcoming role in the middle this season, that draft gave us the three linchpins of our defense.

And I would say all three are underrated.

R. Jones doesn't have the skill set to operate as the single-high in the cover-3 with press looks or cover-1. ET allows that Seattle D to contest the short stuff - while also limiting the big play.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Odrick is better than Watt.

 

[MRojas4]

Odrick is better than Watt.

:confused: