Joe-28th ranked coach?

[roy_miami]

So you honestly believe Ireland wanted to get fired? You think he wanted his livelihood taken away? You think he was so incompetent that he worked AGAINST the coach at every turn?

Ding ding ding.

I think he was taking a page from his mentor Bill Parcell's book when he turned the Giants around. At one point Parcells decided he would stop taking advice from the morons around him and everything would be done his way or he would resign. I believe Ireland decided it was his turn to be the decider.

 

[roy_miami]

So you honestly believe Ireland wanted to get fired? You think he wanted his livelihood taken away? You think he was so incompetent that he worked AGAINST the coach at every turn?

Technically it wasn't suicide but he did take an unnecessary gamble on his own life. He still had $22 million in the bank and drafted a bunch of injured, mostly defensive players. What did he think would happen?

 

[SkapePhin]

Ding ding ding.

I think he was taking a page from his mentor Bill Parcell's book when he turned the Giants around. At one point Parcells decided he would stop taking advice from the morons around him and everything would be done his way or he would resign. I believe Ireland decided it was his turn to be the decider.

LMAO what an inane, insane theory. So you would have us believe that from the MOMENT Philbin was hired Ireland was actively sabotaging him with bad players or questionable moves.

Likely story...

There is one rather large hole in your theory, if Ireland were indeed actively making moves to undermine the coach. If that were the case, he wouldn't have drafted the QB that Philbin's chosen OC coaches throughout his time as HC in college. He wouldn't have selected a QB that for his system and desired personality traits. He wouldn't have drafted a QB at all! Because of you really wanted your HC to fail, the fastest way to do that is to leave him bereft of talent at the QB position...

What a ridiculous theory devoid of any evidence whatsoever...


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[roy_miami]

LMAO what an inane, insane theory. So you would have us believe that from the MOMENT Philbin was hired Ireland was actively sabotaging him with bad players or questionable moves.

Likely story...

There is one rather large hole in your theory, if Ireland were indeed actively making moves to undermine the coach. If that were the case, he wouldn't have drafted the QB that Philbin's chosen OC coaches throughout his time as HC in college. He wouldn't have selected a QB that for his system and desired personality traits. He wouldn't have drafted a QB at all! Because of you really wanted your HC to fail, the fastest way to do that is to leave him bereft of talent at the QB position...

What a ridiculous theory devoid of any evidence whatsoever...

1. No evidence whatsoever? Ireland's rotting corpse is not evidence?
2. I clarified it wasn't technically suicide, it was a stupid unnecessary gamble on his life though which isn't much better. So maybe he didn't intentionally kill himself, he was playing a serious game of russian roulette though.
3. Thank you for giving Philbin credit for Tannehill. I'm sure I'll be pointing back to this quote many times for future debates.

 

[roy_miami]

This is awesome. One of the downsides to firing Ireland was losing out on the debates over him. Now I feel like I'm eating my cake and having it too. Weeeeeeeeee.

 

[SkapePhin]

1. No evidence whatsoever? Ireland's rotting corpse is not evidence?
2. I clarified it wasn't technically suicide, it was a stupid unnecessary gamble on his life though which isn't much better. So maybe he didn't intentionally kill himself, he was playing a serious game of russian roulette though.
3. Thank you for giving Philbin credit for Tannehill. I'm sure I'll be pointing back to this quote many times for future debates.

What in the ever-loving what? You sound completely delusional and unhinged. How is Ireland getting fired proof that he was actively sabotaging Philbin?

Ireland wasn't even technically fired, he was demoted by Ross and refused to accept it so he quit. So if he were actively undermining the coach, ether Ross is blind, or doesn't care, because he didn't fire him outright. So which is it?

The reason Ireland isn't here is because his tenure of mediocrity exceeded that of Philbin's. If both of them were here for the same length of time, they would both be gone.

You can see a clear change in types of players drafted during Sparano Era and Philbin Era. That says to me that the GM was drafting based on input from both coaches to find players who fit their needs and desires.

Using Occam's Razor, the most likely explanation is that everyone involved in the selection and development of talent has been remarkably mediocre for several years, thus the mediocre results on the field.

You are clearly too invested in Philbin to see that you have concocted an elaborate conspiracy theory to explain away everyone's failings.

Ireland had 2 special needs daughters and a career in the only thing he ever knew or liked - football. I think it's a pretty big stretch to believe he would jeopardize all that to actively undermine a coach. No one can be so dumb as to draft crappy players KNOWINGLY for the sole purpose of "trying" to make a coach look bad, when their own job performance is judged entirely upon, you know, drafting talent.

This conspiracy theory is up there with the likes of he fake moon landing and the grassy knoll.


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---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

And for the record, Philbin does get credit for Tannehill, just as he received credit and blame for every good or bad player acquired and developed during his tenure.


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[roy_miami]

Ireland wasn't even technically fired, he was demoted by Ross and refused to accept it so he quit. So if he were actively undermining the coach, ether Ross is blind, or doesn't care, because he didn't fire him outright. So which is it?

- We have reports that Ireland and Philbin hated each other.
- We have reports that Philbin wanted roster changes including Incognito and Martin, Ireland, who had final say on those matters reportedly refused.
- Stephen Ross, the guy, and one of the only guys, that knows whats going on behind closed doors strips Ireland of his final say powers.

Martin was a disaster and a giant embarrassment for Ross, doesn't it stand to reason that Ireland was losing his final say power because he ****ed up this one decision where he might have utilized his final say responsibility?

Where you see zany conspiracy theory, I see 2+2=4.

 

[SkapePhin]

- We have reports that Ireland and Philbin hated each other.
- We have reports that Philbin wanted roster changes including Incognito and Martin, Ireland, who had final say on those matters reportedly refused.
- Stephen Ross, the guy, and one of the only guys, that knows whats going on behind closed doors strips Ireland of his final say powers.

Martin was a disaster and a giant embarrassment for Ross, doesn't it stand to reason that Ireland was losing his final say power because he ****ed up this one decision where he might have utilized his final say responsibility?

Where you see zany conspiracy theory, I see 2+2=4.

I find it interesting that you trust these "reports" full heatedly but discount the coaches own words regarding Martin during the offseason, before and after the draft. It's also interesting that you would assign credit to Philbin for Tannehill, yet absolve him of any and all blame for the drafting of Martin which came in the same draft, 1 round apart. Furthermore, Martin didn't fit the profile of OT's Ireland drafted under Sparano (other than they were all underwhelming). Sparano liked tough, nasty meathead OL like Cog. Martin was the antithesis. How do you explain the cast difference in player drafted by the same person if it weren't for input or "fit" of the HC?

Make up your mind, was the 2012 draft Ireland's attempt to undermine Philbin or not? Because both Tannehill (good) and Martin (bad) were drafted in that same year.

And if Ireland were trying to sabotage the 2013 season, why did he spend all that money on offensive upgrades? Why didn't he just sit on that wad of cash to use with the next coach?

You really must think Ireland had Ross by the balls of you believe your own conspiracy theory, because he was planning one hell of a coup.


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[truedolfan57]

You can see a clear change in types of players drafted during Sparano Era and Philbin Era. That says to me that the GM was drafting based on input from both coaches to find players who fit their needs and desires.
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i don't know about clear. the majority of drafts by ireland were the same...which was bad, for the most part.

 

[SkapePhin]

i don't know about clear. the majority of drafts by ireland were the same...which was bad, for the most part.

The TYPES of players, it doesn't matter if they were both bad or not, but the traits of OL selected during Sparano and Philbin are different, and actually contributed toward Bullygate because a lot of the "Sparano guys" were still around.

The OL selected under Philbin were finesse, intellectual, well spoken types. The Sparano OL were brutes, road graders.

It's funny because James is in a similar mold to Martin (only hopefull less of a puss) and was selected by a GM other than Ireland.


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[roy_miami]

I find it interesting that you trust these "reports" full heatedly but discount the coaches own words regarding Martin during the offseason, before and after the draft. It's also interesting that you would assign credit to Philbin for Tannehill, yet absolve him of any and all blame for the drafting of Martin which came in the same draft, 1 round apart. Furthermore, Martin didn't fit the profile of OT's Ireland drafted under Sparano (other than they were all underwhelming). Sparano liked tough, nasty meathead OL like Cog. Martin was the antithesis. How do you explain the cast difference in player drafted by the same person if it weren't for input or "fit" of the HC?

Make up your mind, was the 2012 draft Ireland's attempt to undermine Philbin or not? Because both Tannehill (good) and Martin (bad) were drafted in that same year.

And if Ireland were trying to sabotage the 2013 season, why did he spend all that money on offensive upgrades? Why didn't he just sit on that wad of cash to use with the next coach?

You really must think Ireland had Ross by the balls of you believe your own conspiracy theory, because he was planning one hell of a coup.

You find it interesting that a NFL Head Coach doesn't disparage his players to the media? The same reports I believe said Philbin didn't trust Martin at LT, you think it would be wise for Philbin to say that for the world to see in front of the media "I don't trust Martin is good enough at LT?" Would you do that even if you thought Martin was terrible?

I'll say it again IRELAND WAS NOT PURPOSELY TRYING TO UNDERMINE PHILBIN, THAT WAS THE END RESULT. Quit being so melodramatic, of course I don't think Ireland was literally trying to kill himself.

And he spent "all that money" but still had $22 million in the coffers, fifth highest amount in the entire NFL. The four teams behind us had all just gone through regime changes that offseason. You don't think another player or two could have helped more on the field in 2013 than a bank note?

 

[SkapePhin]

You find it interesting that a NFL Head Coach doesn't disparage his players to the media? The same reports I believe said Philbin didn't trust Martin at LT, you think it would be wise for Philbin to say that for the world to see in front of the media "I don't trust Martin is good enough at LT?" Would you do that even if you thought Martin was terrible?

I'll say it again IRELAND WAS NOT PURPOSELY TRYING TO UNDERMINE PHILBIN, THAT WAS THE END RESULT. Quit being so melodramatic, of course I don't think Ireland was literally trying to kill himself.

And he spent "all that money" but still had $22 million in the coffers, fifth highest amount in the entire NFL. The four teams behind us had all just gone through regime changes that offseason. You don't think another player or two could have helped more on the field in 2013 than a bank note?

Nice flip flop. Now he wasn't trying to undermine Philbin, after you spent 4 posts saying just that. Gotcha.

And Philbin still has no input whatsoever on the talent acquired, gotcha. Yet you still credit Philbin for Tannehill, but not for Martin. Gotcha. Quite consistent! Excellent way to frame the discussion so that Philbin could not possibly be responsible for anything that led to the failure of this team the past two seasons.

Not one Philbin supporter has yet been able to give us all even one thing that Philbin excels at as a head coach. I see nothing but excuses, which is often the case when trying to defend an unsuccessful person.


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[KTOWNFINFAN]

So Ireland had a clear message from the coaches that Martin would be a fine LT yet he's negotiating to make the trade for Albert anyway. What precipitated even contemplating the trade then?

And even if your theory is true Ireland's job is to put together a good roster, thats Ireland's job, his only job. If he want's to listen to Philbin or Dawn or his cat or whoever as long as it works thats fine. But if Philbin tells Ireland Martin is a good player and he turns out to be a terrible player then its still Ireland's fault, because Ireland's job is to make sure our LT is a good player. THAT IS HIS ONLY JOB.

Seriously ??

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

Uhhhh, thats the point. Show me a quote where he's disparaged any player on the team ever to the media while they're still on the team. Do you think that means he has loved them all?

If you ask Philbin, or any coach, if he thinks his team is good I can already tell you what the response will be long before he takes the podium.

Reporter: Hey Joe, is Landry good?
Joe Philbin: He's an impressive athlete and he's picking up the playbook nicely. Can he be a great receiver? Absolutely.

Its sad that I have to explain this to you but that is coach speak.

No, whats sad is you use this to support your arguement when it's suits you and ignore it the rest of the time.

 

[roy_miami]

Nice flip flop. Now he wasn't trying to undermine Philbin, after you spent 4 posts saying just that. Gotcha.

And Philbin still has no input whatsoever on the talent acquired, gotcha. Yet you still credit Philbin for Tannehill, but not for Martin. Gotcha. Quite consistent! Excellent way to frame the discussion so that Philbin could not possibly be responsible for anything that led to the failure of this team the past two seasons.

Not one Philbin supporter has yet been able to give us all even one thing that Philbin excels at as a head coach. I see nothing but excuses, which is often the case when trying to defend an unsuccessful person.

Philbin has input and Ireland decides what to do with that input. In the case for Martin Ireland decided to trust his own instincts over Philbins. What do you think happens when the two of them happen to have a disagreement every once in a while? There is a reason one guy is given the responsibility of final say, because as you can tell from a day spent on finheaven its not always rainbows and lollipops even between people rooting for the same team and hoping for the same outcome, not everybody sees things the same way. So again, what do you think the process is if one of them liked Martin at LT and the other didn't?

And I didn't give Philbin credit for tannehill, you did.