John Clayton on ESPN Radio | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

John Clayton on ESPN Radio

Originally posted by CirclingWagons
(in the voice of the old knight), "You have chosen...WISELY."

I agree Noland, that'd be a smarter play for Miami
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I would rather have Rivers or Henson but I don't think that is possible Rivers will be gone and I think the Texans will be asking for to much to get Henson. So if Rivers aint there why not go after a WR or O-Lineman. I would not trade our first for Ramsey that is to big of a chance.
 
Rivers Rivers Rivers baby.

Actually I would not mind using the pick on Ramsey, but only if we lose out on Rivers. I think the rumor that we offered the #20 pick to the Skins for Ramsey is just a rumor actually.

I have a feeling this coaching staff is very sensitive to the criticism that they've only had 1 first rounder in 4 years and he turned out to be Jamar Fletcher. Wanny did come out and say they will not be giving a first for anyone this year, and yeah I know its not his decision but it could have been what they all had decided...if not something that Huizenga himSELF said to all of them. It would be wise for Spielman not to come right out and say what Wanny did because you never wanna lay your chips on the table, meanwhile Dave is in a position where he needs to try and get back as much trust from Wayne as he can so repeating a Wayne directive like mantra to the press will only show Wayne that Dave is completely on board.
 
I just wish there was some way we could trade up in the draft to get Rivers. It would be cool to trade Ogun for a better pick to get Rivers and the 20th get a WR that would be the bomb.
 
I'd be happy with Ramsey, Rivers, or Henson. I want Rivers most, but I feel we need one of the three. Or like, Marc Bulger if the Rams are dumb enough to give him up.

With the Ramsey thing entering the fray its a much better either/or scenario with Rivers than like, the Henson situation believe it or not just because of the timing.

Henson HAS to be traded before the draft. If it were just Henson or Rivers, if we don't get Henson, its Rivers or bust...all the while not knowing ir Rivers lasts until pick #20. But we MIGHT want Rivers even more than Henson, still we dont know if Rivers will fall to #20 so we might be induced to go with the "sure thing" in Henson even if it means overpaying for a guy that wont be as good as Rivers will be.

Meanwhile if its Ramsey or Rivers, we could even trade for Ramsey right on draft day should we see Rivers get selected by someone else above us. Either way we could put things off in negotiations til after the draft so that we're trading like 2005 picks instead of 2004 picks. Thats ultimately what I would like to do is give like a conditional 2005 pick for Ramsey.
 
If Spielman and Trestman think that highly on giving away a 1st round pick for Ramsey.. I'm all for it!!! Last time Miami tried trading a 1st rounder away, it was for Matt Hasselbeck, and that cat just rifled his way into the Pro Bowl this past year not to mention his WR's dropped ALOT of passes that should of made Hasselbeck look even better than he does right now..

Hasselbeck was said to have a rifle arm when he was a backup with Green Bay and frankly, that's what Ramsey was said to have coming out of Tulane.. Hell, Ramsey has shown his arm in NFL games..

If Miami does get Ramsey in a trade, I will be very very very excited about this Miami offense for 2004.. Considering his cap number
 
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I'll be excited, but I'd also be crossing my fingers that it takes Ramsey a lot less time to become a good QB than it did Hasselback.

Hasselback had like 2 pretty bad years I think before becoming good this year. I'm not TERRIBLY convinced about Hasselback. He's got a great (not good...GREAT) LT keepin people off him, he's got two very good WRs in Koren Robinson and Darrell Jackson (though you're right, the dropped balls), and he's got a very good RB running in that system. Everyone seemed to mature at the same time this year...Jackson, Robinson, and Alexander.

Still it so far seems like a credit to Spielman's name even though a year or two ago it seemed like we came very close to making a huge blunder.

I'll be excited about Ramsey though. He's a player. He can make stuff happen on his own. Spend some $$$ on the OL and man you got somethin to be excited about.

You know who I'd love that we maybe can't afford but also maybe would try to make a run at him anyway? Walter Jones. Orlando Pace has unreachable contract demands, but Walter Jones will probably settle for a $12 million signing bonus. The Hawks might franchise him a third time in a row though.
 
yea, i'd love having Ramsey here....hes got a gun, hes really tough and i've heard he makes good decisions. Plus, hes cheap and young. Most definately worth a 1st rounder, especially the #20.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
You know who I'd love that we maybe can't afford but also maybe would try to make a run at him anyway? Walter Jones. Orlando Pace has unreachable contract demands, but Walter Jones will probably settle for a $12 million signing bonus. The Hawks might franchise him a third time in a row though.
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Jones is definetely a player, but seems as though Spielman and Wanny are banking on Wade Smith to improve VASTLY for next year.. Our LT position is looked at as a bright spot at the line with Smith's potential being there, not to mention that the other 4 positions on the O-line are going to be looked at for upgrades or replacement for high demands (Todd Wade)..

With our o-line practically in disarray, Wade Smith has more than secured his starting spot for next year..
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
I'll be excited, but I'd also be crossing my fingers that it takes Ramsey a lot less time to become a good QB than it did Hasselback.

Hasselback had like 2 pretty bad years I think before becoming good this year. I'm not TERRIBLY convinced about Hasselback. He's got a great (not good...GREAT) LT keepin people off him, he's got two very good WRs in Koren Robinson and Darrell Jackson (though you're right, the dropped balls), and he's got a very good RB running in that system. Everyone seemed to mature at the same time this year...Jackson, Robinson, and Alexander.
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Hasselbeck went to Seattle with zero starting experience, so the rough start was inevitable.. Very few are like Marino.. Koren Robinson had an off-year in 2003, the guy was being disciplined by the team with a 1 or 2 game suspension but either way, Darrell JAckson and Bobby Engram did very well as starters as well as in reserved roles.. I do agree though, in Seattle most of their money is spent on offensive players than defensive players, so he does have an excellent supporting cast..

I feel Ramsey with Ricky would be a bigger threat than MAtt Hasselbeck and Stephen Alexander but it's only my opinion and basically all hype until it hits the field..
 
Ramsey would have a MUCH better RB, a better FB, an elite TE, and a pretty darn good WR to work with (although he isn't on Coles' level yet). Still, he'd pretty much be in a better offense overall. I'm assuming that we address the OL of course.

Rivers is still my guy though. He's just fantastic. But Ramsey ain't a bad consolation prize at all. And he represents a chance THIS year.
 
I'm starting to think less and less that Ramsey is ready to win this year. He's got some learning to do still. I'm lookin at his stuff on STATS Inc. He's not in the Top 20 league wise in most any of the good categories, and he's got a high percentage of "poor passes" per attempt...a lot like Fiedler this season.

He's shown potential but he's got a lot to learn before he puts it together IMO. Gibbs isn't stupid, he's won 3 super bowls for cryin out loud. He doesn't think Ramsey is ready this year either.

Ramsey, like Rivers and Henson, would be more of a future prospect but Ramsey can actually start and do semi-well this year whereas its not a good idea to start rookie Rivers or Henson
 
First off, I don't care what a talking head like John Clayton SPECULATES. Gibbs has said he's not trading Ramsey, and that he'll be given the chance to compete for a starting spot. Ramsey is saying he doesn't won't to be traded and is looking forward to winning the starting spot in training camp. Wannstedt is saying they are not trading their 1st rd pick for anyone.

Miami is not trading their 1st rd pick in this year's draft for Ramsey, enough already!

Now, when training camp opens in July, and should the Redskins not give Ramsey an equal shot at winning the starting QB position, or if he just flat out loses it in an open competition, then maybe he will ask to be traded. But Gibbs is still not going to want to do that because Ramsey would make a very affordable backup. By the time all of this happens, I would hope Miami has settled on their QBs for this season.

Nevertheless, should the unlikely happen and Ramsey seeks and gets permission to be traded before the draft, I don't think he's worth a 1st rd pick. From what I've read, he takes a 5 step drop and just sits there holding the ball waiting for an open receiver until he gets hit. He got sacked 33 times in 11 games. You can blame it on the OL or Spurrier's lack of blocking schemes, but Hasselback ran the same offense and was more successful in it. You can blame his lack of mobility on a brokem foot, in which that would just make another reason not to give away so much for him, his durability. He sounds like another Brian Griese, good arm, you just have to block very well for him. Let's not give up our 1st rd pick for a QB we already have.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
I'm starting to think less and less that Ramsey is ready to win this year. He's got some learning to do still. I'm lookin at his stuff on STATS Inc. He's not in the Top 20 league wise in most any of the good categories, and he's got a high percentage of "poor passes" per attempt...a lot like Fiedler this season.

He's shown potential but he's got a lot to learn before he puts it together IMO. Gibbs isn't stupid, he's won 3 super bowls for cryin out loud. He doesn't think Ramsey is ready this year either.

Ramsey, like Rivers and Henson, would be more of a future prospect but Ramsey can actually start and do semi-well this year whereas its not a good idea to start rookie Rivers or Henson
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Where do you get all your STATS INC. info from??
 
but Hasselback ran the same offense and was more successful in it.
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No, he wasn't. Not in any way shape or form. I know that the Skins weren't exactly GOOD when Ramsey got injured but they were about 4-6. When Hasselbeck came in they went 1-5.

On top of the winning percentage drop, Ramsey's statistics were also much better than Hasselbeck. Timm was 53% (95 of 177) with a 5.7 yard per attempt (1012 yd), with a 2.8% TD percentage (5 TDs), and a 4.0 INT percentage (7 INTs).

Ramsey was 53% (179 of 337) with a 6.4 yard per attempt (2166 yds), with a 4.2% TD percentage (14 TDs), and a 2.8% INT percentage (9 INTs).

Not only that, but the Redskins offense averaged 19 points a game under Ramsey, and more like 15 points a game under Hasselbeck.

The ONLY category, and I do mean the ONLY meaningful category that Hasselbeck actually outperformed Ramsey in was in the sack department. Ramsey was dropped 8.2% of the time he dropped back. Hasselbeck was dropped 4.8% of the time he dropped back. But a lot of that may also have had to do with responsibility. Spurrier scaled back his passing offense when Hasselbeck took the reins. Tim averaged about 30 dropbacks a game, while Patrick average more like 37 dropbacks a game. Ramsey was responsible for more checkdowns than Tim...and despite Tim's being less willing to take a sack, the offense ran much worst with him in the game.

He sounds like another Brian Griese, good arm, you just have to block very well for him
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Brian Griese has one of the weakest arms among starting NFL QBs. Jay Fiedler's arm is stronger than Griese's. The fact that you think that Hasselbeck outperformed Ramsey, and that Griese is a Drew Bledsoe replica, pretty much discredits your ENTIRE post, IMO.
 
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