Justin Herbert signs- Will Tua make more next year? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Justin Herbert signs- Will Tua make more next year?

Ruckus45 said:
He certainly has talent, but hasn't performed to earn that contract. However, I'm not the one cutting the check so I guess my opinion doesn't mean all that much.

I have a feeling Tua's contract will be a normal Grier special. Team friendly after 3 years and easily restructured to massage the cap. Also, years 4 & 5 will be high but will probably be considered a deal once those years come (see Mahomes contract).

So yeah, I see Tua getting that kind of contract and being the Fins QB until 2029. Not sure why, but that year just seemed very futuristic to me. Like flying cars. Oof, I'm old
Click to expand...
Grier actually doesn’t structure the contracts as to the pay structures and such. From what I understand, that is handled by Brandon Shore.
 
E30M3 said:
Market should correct itself. If a team is willing to absorb 25% at the QB position, it will only hamstring the entire team. Cap is there for this exact reason.
Click to expand...
Is there an example in sports of caps on salaries for individual positions? I understand the free market with a cap is supposed to regulate this(limited assets to allocate) but owners/gms just can't help themselves it seems (e.g. browns and deshaun, broncos and russel)...bad deals have a cascading effect across the league, can't go on like this
 
Soxfinatic said:
This! Herbert absolutely earned this deal. If he was in a dolphins uniform, people would be comparing him to Dan. Tua has not played on his level to earn this type of deal. This year will determine whether or not he gets that money.
Click to expand...

If you think Herbert deserves this deal, then Tua does also.

Herbert has played in 13 more games then Tua. Yet only has 2 more wins overall then Tua. Herbert has 1 losing season, Tua has never. Had a losing record.

TDS- Herbert 94
Tua- 52

Ints- Herbert- 35
Tua- 23

Rating-Herbert- 96.2
Tua- 95

Completion % Herbert- 66.9
Tua- 65.7

YPA- Herbert 7.2
Tua- 7.4

YPC- Herbert- 10.7
Tua- 11.3

TD% Herbert 4.8%
Tua-4.8%

Int% Herbert- 1.8%
Tua- 2.1 %

Herbert obviously has the raw numbers with 13 more played games, but it's categorically false to claim Tua has not played on Herbert's level.

Last year alone, Tua was vastly superior in almost every metric.

Of course, claiming Herbert is not a good QB is not a wise opinion in my belief
But claiming Tua hasn't played at Herbert's level is equally not a wise opinion.

Fact is 1 QB has stayed the same and not progressed ( Herbert), where the other ( Tua) has improved and progressedevery season.

Of course, Herbert will make Chargers fans happy for Many years.

However, the trajectory implies Tua is the QB on the rise.

Of course, injuries not withstanding
 
If he puts up a healthy season that is statistically on par with this past one he's probably due for a payday.

The Dolphins can play him on the 5th year option next year and then franchise him in 2025 i believe, but i would have to imagine they will work out an extension with him before that if they want him here long term.
 
GRYPHONK said:
If you think Herbert deserves this deal, then Tua does also.

Herbert has played in 13 more games then Tua. Yet only has 2 more wins overall then Tua. Herbert has 1 losing season, Tua has never. Had a losing record.

TDS- Herbert 94
Tua- 52

Ints- Herbert- 35
Tua- 23

Rating-Herbert- 96.2
Tua- 95

Completion % Herbert- 66.9
Tua- 65.7

YPA- Herbert 7.2
Tua- 7.4

YPC- Herbert- 10.7
Tua- 11.3

TD% Herbert 4.8%
Tua-4.8%

Int% Herbert- 1.8%
Tua- 2.1 %

Herbert obviously has the raw numbers with 13 more played games, but it's categorically false to claim Tua has not played on Herbert's level.

Last year alone, Tua was vastly superior in almost every metric.

Of course, claiming Herbert is not a good QB is not a wise opinion in my belief
But claiming Tua hasn't played at Herbert's level is equally not a wise opinion.

Fact is 1 QB has stayed the same and not progressed ( Herbert), where the other ( Tua) has improved and progressedevery season.

Of course, Herbert will make Chargers fans happy for Many years.

However, the trajectory implies Tua is the QB on the rise.

Of course, injuries not withstanding
Click to expand...
From the last 3 seasons since entering the league... Herbert's efficiency numbers are flat out average...

Rating- 15th
YPA- 19th
TD%- 16th
INT%- 9th
Sack%- 11th

Sure people look at the total TDs and its impressive, especially on on your FF roster, but they're a function of the Chargers making the offense run through him. Like I've been saying for a long time now, total stats don't really matter much when it comes to winning football games if you're not doing it efficiently, which is reflected in Herbert's W/L record: 25-24. In other words paddding Herbert's stats has been priority number one for the Chargers, and its backfired into a big ass contract to a QB you haven't found a way to win with.

What's even more concerning is the way he's been evolving, let's look at those same stats from year to year... 20-21-22

Rating: 98.3 - 97.7 - 93.2
YPA: 7.3 - 7.5 - 6.8
TD%: 5.2 - 5.7 - 3.6

And I'm not even using this to compare him with Tua, Im very glad the Fins still have another 2 years to make a decision on him because of his injury issues. My point is the Chargers would have been wise to wait it out a bit to see if Herbert is going to keep regressing or actually turn it around.
 
MrChadRico said:
Mahomes ain't redoing his deal for years, the guy has said he already has generational wealth and isn't playing football for the money anymore.

If he does redo his deal it'll be to take less not more. He's making so much in endorsement deals anyway, I believe him when he says stuff like this. Mahomes saw what Brady did playing for well below market value and he's gonna copy that.
Click to expand...
When a deal is redone its never for less.just converted to bonuses
 
NBP81 said:
From the last 3 seasons since entering the league... Herbert's efficiency numbers are flat out average...

Rating- 15th
YPA- 19th
TD%- 16th
INT%- 9th
Sack%- 11th

Sure people look at the total TDs and its impressive, especially on on your FF roster, but they're a function of the Chargers making the offense run through him. Like I've been saying for a long time now, total stats don't really matter much when it comes to winning football games if you're not doing it efficiently, which is reflected in Herbert's W/L record: 25-24. In other words paddding Herbert's stats has been priority number one for the Chargers, and its backfired into a big ass contract to a QB you haven't found a way to win with.

What's even more concerning is the way he's been evolving, let's look at those same stats from year to year... 20-21-22

Rating: 98.3 - 97.7 - 93.2
YPA: 7.3 - 7.5 - 6.8
TD%: 5.2 - 5.7 - 3.6

And I'm not even using this to compare him with Tua, Im very glad the Fins still have another 2 years to make a decision on him because of his injury issues. My point is the Chargers would have been wise to wait it out a bit to see if Herbert is going to keep regressing or actually turn it around.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with you.

I am one that doesn't believe any of these athletes are worth the money they are making lol.

But I agree and see the same thing with Herbert. To me he appeared to enter the league at his ceiling. Which was good. The problem is, he hasn't progressed or improved.

Also, as you post indicated, he has regressed.

In the same way it makes sense to wait and see if Tua can stay healthy before offering a big contract, it makes sense to wait to offer a big contract to a player who appears to have regressed every year in the league.
 
Stats and wins aside, the bottom line is can the qb in question move his team down the field to win games when needed? Doesn't matter if he had 350 passing yards or 100 passing yards. When needed, what's your believe in his ability to get it done? I think Herbert, Tua and Burrow have passed that test. Their coaching staffs know they can get it done. Their teammates know they can get it done and even their opponents know they can get it done. Once you've reached that point stats don't matter, your a legit NFL qb.

When I say can they move their team, I mean if put in that situation 10 times do you generally believe they're going to get it done more times than not. I think most qbs can produce 1 or 2 clutch drives out of 10 attempts. I'm talking about the guys who take the field in those situations and people are shocked if the drive fails.
 
Last edited:
gregorygrant83 said:
Stats and wins aside, the bottom line is can the qb in question move his team down the field to win games when needed? Doesn't matter if he had 350 passing yards or 100 passing yards. When needed, what's your believe in his ability to get it done? I think Herbert, Tua and Burrow have passed that test. Their coaching staffs know they can get it done. Their teammates know they can get it done and even their opponents know they can get it done. Once you've reached that point stats don't matter, your a legit NFL qb.
Click to expand...

When opponents, coaches and your team know you can get it done, you are there.

Sharp and insightful comment. Love it!
 
If Tua has a full healthy season it would be an outlier, and it would be a problem to base a contract's numbers on the outlier.
 
Tua would have to lead the Dolphins deep into the playoffs before he’d get a contract.

Him staying healthy also is part of that equation.

I wish he does stay healthy all year. But you gotta follow history and the trend and not your heart on these matters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom