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Knight Lowers Demands

Listen all I will say is this...Sammy Knight makes plays, he isn't that fast but neither is Madison and Thomas, and they are cased as top 5 at their positions. Arturo Freeman last year got burned and did not make any INTs or any plays for that matter. Knight makes INTs, and if he gets burned, so what he is still doing better than Freeman. I would take INTs and getting burned and making plays (hard hits..Forcing Fumbles) then just getting burned. Wouldn't you?
 
Let's look at some quotes from an article i was reading.

"Knight, 27, was a Pro Bowl starting strong safety in 2001 but didn't play well in '02 and the Saints refused to meet his asking price of between $3 million and $4 million per year."

"He's got to rely on his instincts and his smarts because if he's out of position he just doesn't have that recovery speed. Just functional athletic skills defending the pass."

"Knight has natural ballhawking ability but was exposed at times last year by teams using spread offenses on early downs."

"He wanted big money coming out of the box," the scout said. "The market must be drying up and he's probably looking for a home. People are nibbling now after the draft."

"Despite being a three-year starter at USC, Knight wasn't drafted following a terrible combine workout in which he ran 40 yards in 4.89 seconds at 203 pounds. He scored 22 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. "

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/may03/138150.asp?format=print
 
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227


I'd say the only way signing Knight could be considered at all "risky" would be if it came with a high price tag. So long as his salary is in line with out other Safeties, I don't see how there's ANY potential downside to it. He either beats Freeman out for the starting job, or Freeman beats out a Probowler, and we get great depth, and a player to rotate in on obvious running plays. Saying that signing Knight is risky would be like saying that signing Zach Thomas is risky. They have the exact same plus's and minus's.

I agree with this Phinfan. The funny thing is im not against signing the guy, especially at a low price and with Freeman in the mix.
 
Originally posted by Dolphins2002
Knight makes INTs, and if he gets burned, so what he is still doing better than Freeman. I would take INTs and getting burned and making plays (hard hits..Forcing Fumbles) then just getting burned. Wouldn't you?

This is exactly what Im afraid of 2002. Thats the potential downside of him being signed.
 
Originally posted by Surferosa


Mike, I never made the statement about guarding the fastest WR's in the league. Just reread this entire thread. Look it up yourself.

Your entire premise is based on a sentence that I didnt say. ALL I SAID IS HES SLOW. Thats all. How slow? Again, I dont know. I also dont know the relative speeds each of the 64 starting safeties in the league and wouldnt venture a guess as to whos faster/slower. :rolleyes:

Again, Wanny and Spielman also think hes slow. The Saints think hes slow. Approximately 27 other teams also think hes slow because he happens to be a young, aggressive, fantastic, playmaking football player - and the only reason a team wouldnt want such a terrffic talent on their team is BECAUSE HES SLOW, which is all I said in this thread.

Ok. Fine. But based on my 18 years coaching experience, and having had more than a few players make it to play on Sundays, and having had actually been involved in timing Sammy I'll go back to my original statement. Sammy isnt slow if 4.55 or 4.6 is slow.
Lastly...you are adding a little to assume that "Approximately 27 other teams also think hes slow because he happens to be a young, aggressive, fantastic, playmaking football player - and the only reason a team wouldnt want such a terrffic talent on their team is BECAUSE HES SLOW, which is all I said in this thread"

Exactly where do you get this information that 27 other teams have not signed him because he is slow? Are you basing that on the fact that only 3 teams really courted him? I think you are. However, doesnt a teams cap room effect if they go after a FA or not? How about a teams deopth / skill at that position? Would that not effect a teams desire to land another DB? I think it would.

I think you are making some conclusions based on false assumptions. Sammy isn't slow. He also isnt fast. He is a Pro Bowler and leads the league in big plays over 3 straight seasons.
Those are facts. Not rumors or opinions. If you are going to say he's slower than most the other leagues SS then demonstrate that fact. If you are going to say he gives up alot of plays, show me. How do we know that. Don't say by watching the games because that doesnt mean anything unless you are familiar with the Saints scheme and responsibilities - every play.

I don't think those that say these negatives about Sammy can produce that proof.
I think it's propaganda straight from the saints office to justify him leaving them, and Miami's coaches wisely using that to lower his price.

Ricky williams was slow too according to the Saints organization and Fans...remember? The Saints typically bad mouth players they are letting go over the past 2-3 seasons. I'm not buying it.
 
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Originally posted by Saint Greg
Let's look at some quotes from an article i was reading.

"Knight, 27, was a Pro Bowl starting strong safety in 2001 but didn't play well in '02 and the Saints refused to meet his asking price of between $3 million and $4 million per year."

"He's got to rely on his instincts and his smarts because if he's out of position he just doesn't have that recovery speed. Just functional athletic skills defending the pass."

"Knight has natural ballhawking ability but was exposed at times last year by teams using spread offenses on early downs."

"He wanted big money coming out of the box," the scout said. "The market must be drying up and he's probably looking for a home. People are nibbling now after the draft."

"Despite being a three-year starter at USC, Knight wasn't drafted following a terrible combine workout in which he ran 40 yards in 4.89 seconds at 203 pounds. He scored 22 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. "

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/may03/138150.asp?format=print

great post Greg. thats all ive been saying this entire time. high risk/high reward player
 
Knight's agent counters: The agent for free-agent safety Sammy Knight made a counteroffer to the Dolphins. Wannstedt said Tuesday both sides were far apart and the Dolphins would sign Knight only if he agrees to a contract "we can afford."

If Knight signs, he would compete with strong safety Arturo Freeman and possibly free safety Brock Marion. Freeman, a first-year starter last year, is not worried.

"I welcome the competition," Freeman said. "It doesn't concern me. I just have to keep working hard. That's all I can do."
 
Whats the Saints problem here? They bad mouth the players they release and I think I read in another thread (by a Saints fan perhaps?) that they aren't looking to win the SB? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Unless they are still improving I suppose.
They didn't do bad last year though.
 
That is what your scared of? Maybe you should re-read the post...I am saying Freeman gets burned and makes no plays...Knight makes plays and MAY get burned. So who is the better SS? Knight..
 
Originally posted by Surferosa


great post Greg. thats all ive been saying this entire time. high risk/high reward player

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by XoPhinsoX
Whats the Saints problem here? They bad mouth the players they release and I think I read in another thread (by a Saints fan perhaps?) that they aren't looking to win the SB? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Unless they are still improving I suppose.
They didn't do bad last year though.

We are going younger and faster on defense....that's why i don't think they will win the sb this year....the oldest player on the D-line is howard with 3yrs experience.....they have two young starting OLBs with a combined 1yr starting experience....and a safety with no starting experience. 3 starters on defense were rookies last year. 1 is a rookie this year. 2 were rookies in 2001. So you see, its a young defense. So it's very tough to say how far we could go with that this year....one thing i do know is they can't do worse than our D last year.
 
Originally posted by DOLFANMIKE


Ok. Fine.

Fine


But based on my 18 years coaching experience, and having had more than a few players make it to play on Sundays, and having had actually been involved in timing Sammy I'll go back to my original statement. Sammy isnt slow if 4.55 or 4.6 is slow.

For the record, Sammy ran a 4.89 at the combine. Nonetheless, my opinion of his speed is not based on a 40 time but rather his speed on the football field.


Lastly...you are adding a little to assume that "Approximately 27 other teams also think hes slow because he happens to be a young, aggressive, fantastic, playmaking football player - and the only reason a team wouldnt want such a terrffic talent on their team is BECAUSE HES SLOW, which is all I said in this thread"

Exactly where do you get this information that 27 other teams have not signed him because he is slow? Are you basing that on the fact that only 3 teams really courted him? I think you are. However, doesnt a teams cap room effect if they go after a FA or not? How about a teams deopth / skill at that position? Would that not effect a teams desire to land another DB? I think it would.

I agree. I was being facetious. Dont take every word so literally, man. :cool:


I think you are making some conclusions based on false assumptions. Sammy isn't slow. He also isnt fast. He is a Pro Bowler and leads the league in big plays over 3 straight seasons.
Those are facts. Not rumors or opinions.

None of those are FACTS. "Sammy isnt slow" is a fact? "Sammy also isnt fast" is also a fact? Those are subjective opinions. How can that be fact? How is "leading the league in big plays" a fact? He went to the pro bowl once, I'll give you that :)


If you are going to say he's slower than most the other leagues SS then demonstrate that fact. If you are going to say he gives up alot of plays, show me. How do we know that. Don't say by watching the games because that doesnt mean anything unless you are familiar with the Saints scheme and responsibilities - every play.

Saint Greg just came up with a plethora of objective sources citing his lack of recovery speed and vulnerability to spread offenses. Do you want more?


I don't think those that say these negatives about Sammy can produce that proof. I think it's propaganda straight from the saints office to justify him leaving them, and Miami's coaches wisely using that to lower his price.

:confused:



Ricky williams was slow too according to the Saints organization and Fans...remember? The Saints typically bad mouth players they are letting go over the past 2-3 seasons. I'm not buying it. ]

According to most of the league actually, until Ricky proved em all wrong. :cool:
 
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Originally posted by DOLFANMIKE


I don't think those that say these negatives about Sammy can produce that proof. I think it's propaganda straight from the saints office to justify him leaving them, and Miami's coaches wisely using that to lower his price.

Ricky williams was slow too according to the Saints organization and Fans...remember? The Saints typically bad mouth players they are letting go over the past 2-3 seasons. I'm not buying it.

propoganda? You lost all credibility with this post, Mike.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Saint Greg just came up with a plethora of objective sources citing his lack of recovery speed and vulnerability to spread offenses. Do you want more?

I would also like to remind you that "source" is a Milwaukee,Wisconsin paper and wrote by BOB McGINN who has a BAD history of not reporting all of the facts or taking comments very poorly out of context. I just wanted to let you guys know that before you read to much into it.
 
Originally posted by Surferosa


propoganda? You lost all credibility with this post, Mike.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ok. I can live with you thinking that. But know this, i'm basing my comments on a.) actually having coached him, B.0 Having watched him play, C.) having timed him, D. ) watching how the Saints did the exact same to Ricky Williams last year.

I don't think most informed people would agree with you. Nor would the Pro Bowl or League office that tracks who is doing what statisitically.
 
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