La Canfora says RT is a third tier QB...ouch!

[royalshank]

What you are saying is Ryan needs perfection in order to succeed. he needs a RB averaging over 5 YPC, a D shutting everyone down then he can win. a type 10 type doesn't need perfection to win.



He did more than manage the game in their SB run. That TB D may have been better than Baltimore 2000 or Chi '85 but they still needed good QB play to win.

to be fair about that game vs. Joey harrington he was at the end of his career and just holding on. he was 38 yrs old.

If they are on the same team Ryan is his backup. in seasons Brad started at least 5 games he only had 2 losing seasons(7-9 and 6-8) and 7 winning seasons including 4 playoff apps w/ 3 different teams. Again, Brad wasn't great but he was a good starting QB that you could win with. It's TBD if a team can win w/ Ryan.

i guess it's possible that he was decent and I just never noticed. I can't dismiss the records you cite when he played more than 5 games. For some reason the guy just never was on my radar. I likely never had him on my fantasy team could be the reason.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

yes, maybe the guy who never even rushed for 900 yds in a season was the difference maker. You got me.

Maroney 2007: 185-835, 4.5, 6 TDs
Morris 2008: 156-727, 4.7, 7 TDs

average of 12.2 is not better than 11 in one season after they were 16-0? I appreciate your effort but you are like Ryan Tannehill in a big game.

20078 undefeated SB app
2008 10-5 and no playoffs, watching a team that won 1 game in 2008 win the division in 2008. In 7 seasons w/o Brady Belichick has ONE playoff app and one WC playoff win.

You can't get around the fact that a Cassel-led team was 1 win off the average number of wins of a Brady-led team.

 

[nyjunc]

You can't get around the fact that a Cassel-led team was 1 win off the average number of wins of a Brady-led team.

yep, 5 less wins against a much weaker sched. Congrats Matt! BB could win w/ anyone! I guess Todd Haley must be a better coach b/c he actually made the playoffs w/ Cassell.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

yep, 5 less wins against a much weaker sched. Congrats Matt! BB could win w/ anyone! I guess Todd Haley must be a better coach b/c he actually made the playoffs w/ Cassell.

It's ALL ABOUT THE QB. A god was replaced with a bottom tier QB. The pats should have collapsed.....

 

[Chuck Willie]

First of all, thanks for the level headed response even though we disagree.

I have no problem with criticisms of Tannehill when the criticisms point to things he did. I have an issue with the blame game that goes on around here. There are too many examples of people saying Tannehill when they should be saying "the offense". The offense has been very inconsistent. Tannehill, specifically, has been less inconsistent than many of the other players on the offense.

Let's say I agree that the offensive production over the last few years has been average. What does it imply when it can be shown that some critical parts of the offense have been far below average?

You see a QB that is merely average. I see a QB that is over coming a lot of crap to get his offense to average. Last season from weeks 4 - 16, I did not see average QB play.

I rank Tannehill in the 10- 15 range of current starters.

One question for you. What did you see from Tannehill in the two games this season where the pass protection and running game were good and they didn't fall behind?

You're referencing the Titans and Texans games correct? He played well in those games, no doubt about it. My problem with that is you're not going to always get those kind of performances from the running game and defense. We shouldn't have to have those things clicking to get good performance from a "franchise QB" who just got the huge contract. He needs to be able to carry the team when those things are struggling sometimes and will us to victory and I have serious doubts that he'll ever be able to do that and that's a problem for me.

There's alot to like about Ryan as a QB, I'm not going to sprout all of those things off but he leaves a lot to be desired in other areas.

I'm looking forward to landing an OC who knows what the hell he's doing next year to see if Tannehill makes strides. I agree with you that he was well above average last year. He has regressed this year in my opinion. I'm not a Tannehill hater what so ever, I just have doubts as to whether he's the answer or not.

 

[hoops]

Look at the hit he takes and the throw he makes 929 2nd quarter...3rd and 10

I cant for the life of me understand how so many damn delayed blitzers come free to the qb...its got to be a protection thing and a flaw in lazors scheme...

Zone scheme responsible for areas more than the man and miamis just letting no show so no hot site adjustment blitz lbs clean to the damn qb on repeat

Anything delayed is a freaking problem for this team that shows up repeatedly on tape

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Look at the hit he takes and the throw he makes 929 2nd quarter...3rd and 10

I cant for the life of me understand how so many damn delayed blitzers come free to the qb...its got to be a protection thing and a flaw in lazors scheme...

Zone scheme responsible for areas more than the man and miamis just letting no show so no hot site adjustment blitz lbs clean to the damn qb on repeat

Anything delayed is a freaking problem for this team that shows up repeatedly on tape

That was a ridiculous throw.

The sequence that follows just ticks me off. 1 yard run. Attempt to throw with a free blitzer coming right down the throwing lane. Another blitz that doesn't give the QB time to find Matthews open for a TD in the corner of the end zone.

Both passes have the QB attempt the pass from nearly the same spot of the field. No moving of the pocket. No RB kept in to block. Just snap the ball, take two steps, and hope you get it off in time. The blitzers have absolutely nothing to worry about. No blockers, no need to hesitate.

What is hilarious is that I was rewatching the coaches film. After writing what I did above, I switched to the game broadcast. Right before the third down throw, Gannon comments that it would be "a good idea to move the QB".... WTF....

 

[Phinsfan93]

I'm sort of torn between Tannehill; on one hand, its pretty obvious he is getting dealt a bad hand with a bad OL and a sub-par OC/offensive staff. I'm not a master of playcalling or anything but some of the routes our receivers run don't do Tannehill any favors. Its also pretty obvious that he is much better in a 2 minute situation. On the other hand, there have been numerous occasions where there is a play to be made and he just doesn't make it or a rusher(s) is coming at him and he "won't" even try to avoid them and will take the sack instead of throwing it away. A lot of times he could probably run for 5+ yards but maybe its too late before he realizes it.

I'd say 2nd tier(with Dalton, Carr, Stafford, Bridgewater, etc.) but he's pretty much spot on. Unless everything is perfect or near perfect, Tannehill won't(because I believe he can)get it done.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

You're referencing the Titans and Texans games correct? He played well in those games, no doubt about it. My problem with that is you're not going to always get those kind of performances from the running game and defense. We shouldn't have to have those things clicking to get good performance from a "franchise QB" who just got the huge contract. He needs to be able to carry the team when those things are struggling sometimes and will us to victory and I have serious doubts that he'll ever be able to do that and that's a problem for me.

First, they weren't good performances, they were elite performances. Second, why can't we expect excellent performances from our running game and defense often? Other teams do it. Why not Miami? Have we really given up hope for a competent roster and coaching staff? Why can't we put together teams like Seattle and Carolina?

There's alot to like about Ryan as a QB, I'm not going to sprout all of those things off but he leaves a lot to be desired in other areas.

The same can be said for all but a very small number of QBs.

I'm looking forward to landing an OC who knows what the hell he's doing next year to see if Tannehill makes strides. I agree with you that he was well above average last year. He has regressed this year in my opinion. I'm not a Tannehill hater what so ever, I just have doubts as to whether he's the answer or not.

He has regressed in some areas and improved in others. He has improved so far in yards, YPA, TDs. INTs are up. He has had 93+ QB rating in 6 of 9 games. He had 7 all of last year. 5 of his high QB rating games have come on the road. He only had 2 of those on the road last season.

They have 5 more home games. His average rating at home last season was 97.6.

I think he has a strong second half and finishes up in every category, except INTs.

 

[Chuck Willie]

First, they weren't good performances, they were elite performances. Second, why can't we expect excellent performances from our running game and defense often? Other teams do it. Why not Miami? Have we really given up hope for a competent roster and coaching staff? Why can't we put together teams like Seattle and Carolina?



The same can be said for all but a very small number of QBs.



He has regressed in some areas and improved in others. He has improved so far in yards, YPA, TDs. INTs are up. He has had 93+ QB rating in 6 of 9 games. He had 7 all of last year. 5 of his high QB rating games have come on the road. He only had 2 of those on the road last season.

They have 5 more home games. His average rating at home last season was 97.6.

I think he has a strong second half and finishes up in every category, except INTs.

Why can't everybody put together teams like Seattle and Carolina? It can be done but it's not easy do. We have to draft well and hit on free agents here and there, not try to build the whole team through free agency.

I don't think it's too much to ask to have a solid running game and play good defense. What I'm trying to say is there will be games that our running game gets shut down and Ryan will be forced to throw more and I'm not confident in his ability to lead us to victory under those circumstances.

The areas where Ryan leave more to be desired are alarming IMO. His fourth quarter performance, coming up small in big games, his pocket awareness are all very concerning. Can he improve on them? That remains to be seen... I'm hoping he does because as he improves so does the team. In hoping he shuts me and the rest of his critics up for the rest of the season. We shall see

 

[Mike13]

The only person dumber than JLC is anyone who listens to a word he says about anything.

 

[hoops]

That was a ridiculous throw.

The sequence that follows just ticks me off. 1 yard run. Attempt to throw with a free blitzer coming right down the throwing lane. Another blitz that doesn't give the QB time to find Matthews open for a TD in the corner of the end zone.

Both passes have the QB attempt the pass from nearly the same spot of the field. No moving of the pocket. No RB kept in to block. Just snap the ball, take two steps, and hope you get it off in time. The blitzers have absolutely nothing to worry about. No blockers, no need to hesitate.

What is hilarious is that I was rewatching the coaches film. After writing what I did above, I switched to the game broadcast. Right before the third down throw, Gannon comments that it would be "a good idea to move the QB".... WTF....

The first down inside run doesnt bother me although its 9 in the box for them vs 8 for us not counting the qb...the 2nd down play is a lazor special...he loves releasing the backside edge rusher to the qb...its not even like the play action pitch fake is even coming to that side to make the edge man hiccup he just comes forward full gallop to the qb and if he keeps it hes got a rusher in his face immediately.,.sure if the ball gets thru there to miller hes got a shot at the front pylon but those lbs i think take him out short...

The 3rd down play thill has zero chance to look to the corner route...you cant do that when you release clean edge rushers on the los to the damn qb...these plays are asking to be intercepted by design vs a clean released on the los edge rusher...and like you said the qb is always in the same spot cause we dont do any moving of the pocket or qb run pass options on the move

And that 3rd down play is the exact same splits top side we come out on first and goal at the 4 in later in the game and get the tipped ball landry td

 

[hoops]

The first td to miller that balls 2 yards past the los but that is exactly what the oc wants on that play...its not a qb taking the under thing that is a complete play design thing relative to the coverage being played

So it really irks me when i read thill cant do anything but dink and dunk...the intermediate routes he hits say different hes throwing the ball 30 plus yards true verticals at a very efficient clip this year it is all completely offense based that we throw short so much...it is what the o wants under lazor...the fact we rarely take vertical shots is by play design

He is executing the offense exactly like the oc calls it from a where the ball goes aspect relative to coverage

 

[hoops]

After the tipped ball td to landry jarvis is on the sideline talking to thill and lazor about how philly is overplaying the quick slant in tight red and basically asking for the quick in step shoulder and head fake inside and then fade to the back pylon for the over the top throw there

Qb has to read man first and then the first in step and then he can throw it to a spot...you can run that route vs a clean release edge player provided the qb releases it early...you cant run the other option vs overaggressive in step coverage the pivot cause you dont have time

Miami needs to employ both going forward...i wouldn't be surprised if this sunday we saw the in step and fade to the pylon in tight red in the route combos vs clean release edge players and the pivot to the outside pylon vs accounted for edge rushers in tight red sets provided we get the right looks pre snap

Time to change it up...also lets get some front pylon back shoulder if over the top on the fade or if deep enough in off...press the db and bang them back shoulder when they open up to the fade

Run some iso

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

After the tipped ball td to landry jarvis is on the sideline talking to thill and lazor about how philly is overplaying the quick slant in tight red and basically asking for the quick in step shoulder and head fake inside and then fade to the back pylon for the over the top throw there

Qb has to read man first and then the first in step and then he can throw it to a spot...you can run that route vs a clean release edge player provided the qb releases it early...you cant run the other option vs overaggressive in step coverage the pivot cause you dont have time

Miami needs to employ both going forward...i wouldn't be surprised if this sunday we saw the in step and fade to the pylon in tight red in the route combos vs clean release edge players and the pivot to the outside pylon vs accounted for edge rushers in tight red sets provided we get the right looks pre snap

Time to change it up...also lets get some front pylon back shoulder if over the top on the fade or if deep enough in off...press the db and bang them back shoulder when they open up to the fade

Run some iso

They also need to change up their blocking on those plays. They have to account for that free blitzer. The TE or RB has to be kept in to block. Cut that guy at the knees and get his hands down. We run a play like that with 3 guys in the pattern to the left with no chance of ever using them. There isn't time to ever look that way. Keep one of those guys in to block.

I swear Lazor only knows a few plays for each situation. Maybe time to take the play calling away from him and give it to Saunders.