Lack of Conditioning in Week 1 wasn't just a Miami problem, it was a LEAGUE problem

[mega-fin-love]

I think that it is very clear that the lack of conditioning played a large role in the defenses allowing so many points. There may have been other factors as well but to say that the conditioning doesn't correlate to the high scores is silly

 

[chevysales]

I posted this in another thread but figured it was worthy of its own thread.

I compared the opening weeks of the past 2 years.

2011:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 15
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 8
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 1

2010:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 8
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 8

The difference is GLARING. Its obvious that lack of conditioning has led to sloppy and weak play from the defenses around the league.

We should be encouraged by this. Our defense will get into football shape within the next 2 weeks and we (hopefully) wont see a repeat performance of a defense completely gassed by the 2nd half.

wow what your numbers show is this is more of a passing league than ever before. and that more teams have taken to the air more often than not.

 

[silvrwrx]

I agree totally, I dont think this is the defense we'll see the entire year. The best secondary and the two best NFC defenses got carved up on Thursday night...Brees and Rogers both had crazy stat lines...oh yea who's the other elite QB who is IMO better than both? Brady...Coaches and players needs to get their act together, i get the entire you paid millions of dollars to play a sport be in shape yada yada yada...if you had their money you'd take extended vacations too. I feel that defensive players use more energy on any given play, because the offense players know if its a run or if its a pass so therefore they can release the gas pedal a bit. But defense you have no idea what the play is so you have to hustle every sec of the down.

 

[UHHS]

I posted this in another thread but figured it was worthy of its own thread.

I compared the opening weeks of the past 2 years.

2011:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 15
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 8
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 1

2010:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 8
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 8

The difference is GLARING. Its obvious that lack of conditioning has led to sloppy and weak play from the defenses around the league.

We should be encouraged by this. Our defense will get into football shape within the next 2 weeks and we (hopefully) wont see a repeat performance of a defense completely gassed by the 2nd half.

You cannot compare just 2010 to 2011. For an accurate picture, go back the last five seasons prior to 2011 and you will get a more accurate picture. Youmust also take into account, summer of 2011 set several records around the country for heat and humidity. Not saying you are not right but by far, comparing only one preceding season will not give you an accurate picture.

 

[GoonBoss]

Those numbers could just as well point to a lack of
cohesion as a lack of conditioning.

 

[Jamaicankid21]

guys...the pats shredded us twice last year...they know how to expose our Defense...

even after getting shredded by them twice...we still had the #6 D

Patriots shredded almost everybody last year except the Chargers defense.

 

[mega-fin-love]

Those numbers could just as well point to a lack of
cohesion as a lack of conditioning.

It points to both. No question......by the way CLINT EASTWOOD > JOHN WAYNE

 

[SkapePhin]

You cannot compare just 2010 to 2011. For an accurate picture, go back the last five seasons prior to 2011 and you will get a more accurate picture. Youmust also take into account, summer of 2011 set several records around the country for heat and humidity. Not saying you are not right but by far, comparing only one preceding season will not give you an accurate picture.

I will give data for the past 5 seasons when I get a chance...

 

[SkapePhin]

You cannot compare just 2010 to 2011. For an accurate picture, go back the last five seasons prior to 2011 and you will get a more accurate picture. Youmust also take into account, summer of 2011 set several records around the country for heat and humidity. Not saying you are not right but by far, comparing only one preceding season will not give you an accurate picture.

OK, I added data for the last 5 years. It still supports my argument that something was clearly off with the defenses across the league.

2011:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 15
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 8
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 1

2010:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 8
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 8

2009:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 12
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 4

2008:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 12
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 5
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 4

2007:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 11
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 5
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 5

 

[GoonBoss]

OK, I added data for the last 5 years. It still supports my argument that something was clearly off with the defenses across the league.

2011:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 15
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 8
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 1

2010:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 8
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 8

2009:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 12
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 4

2008:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 12
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 5
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 4

2007:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 11
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 5
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 5

I can grant SOMETHING was off...But you stated something as a fact that you
really can't prove. Is it possible that everyone was poorly conditioned?

Certainly.

As I pointed out it could just as easially, and more likely be the lack of
time to game plan and install new schemes. Doesn't matter if you can run
10 miles at a 4 minute/mile pace if you don't know where the start and finish
lines are.

I watched a pretty good ammount of football this weekend and I didn't see
any team's players look as poorly conditioned as ours. That's not to say
they weren't...It's simply that I saw no compelling visual evidence to lack
of conditioning manifest like on monday night.

 

[SkapePhin]

I can grant SOMETHING was off...But you stated something as a fact that you
really can't prove. Is it possible that everyone was poorly conditioned?

Certainly.

As I pointed out it could just as easially, and more likely be the lack of
time to game plan and install new schemes. Doesn't matter if you can run
10 miles at a 4 minute/mile pace if you don't know where the start and finish
lines are.

I watched a pretty good ammount of football this weekend and I didn't see
any team's players look as poorly conditioned as ours. That's not to say
they weren't...It's simply that I saw no compelling visual evidence to lack
of conditioning manifest like on monday night.

When one looks at a discrepancy in data, you have to look for the common factor. So what occurred that affected ALL the teams in the league? The Lockout. How might the Lockout have affected these teams? The most obvious is conditioning. Teams lost OTAs and they lost Two-a-Days. The only other thing it might have caused is a lack of communication or knowledge of the playbooks. However, if this were the case, why weren't the offenses affected? Additionally, why were defenses in the same system as last year experiencing these problems? If it were a communication or knowledge issue, this wouldn't be the case. That leaves me with only one explanation: conditioning.

As I stated, defenses must REACT to what the offense is doing. The offense wouldnt be as affected by poor conditioning since they know where they will be going on every play. Poor conditioning will slow down reaction times, causing breakdowns in the defense, and increased offensive output.

 

[Gsmack_42]

The one thing no one has pointed out is that at point in the game. The Pats had a little over 21 minutes time of possession to Miami's 20 minutes. But the Pats had 13 more Offensive plays. That's a ton of extra plays in the same amount of time.

 

[UHHS]

OK, I added data for the last 5 years. It still supports my argument that something was clearly off with the defenses across the league.

2011:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 15
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 8
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 1

2010:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 8
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 8

2009:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 6
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 12
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 4
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 4

2008:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 12
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 5
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 4

2007:
Games where both teams scored more than 20 points: 3
Games where at least one team scored more than 20 points: 11
Games where at least one team scored more than 30 points: 5
Games where both teams scored less than 20 points: 5

Greatly appreciated and I understand you point but there is something everyone overlooked.

Lots of heat and humidity in S Florida and most want us flogging our players relentlessly in practice to take advantage of that. I do not agree with that method at all.

It worked in Shulas time because there were little or no practice rules. The NFL wants their players to be protected now and there are no more two a days in pads.

The team did not get together until what ? late July ? Usually they are here from April to June then come back in July. That alone gets them used to the heat and humidity. Regardless of what people wish or think, most of the players do not live in Florida all year round. Cannot say I blame them, the weather there is plain miserable to say the least.

Add in the lockout where the players were at home, wherever they live and most live outside Florida. Guess what I am trying to say is this. With the short amount of conditioning that happened this year, team wise, I can fully understand why many players are not in the greatest shape.

Just the same though. NE defense looked far fitter then ours. In the second half it looked like NE was from the warm weather and our Defense basically looked gassed and that was from the get go in the second half.

Still say it and still believe it, this defense is NOT as an elite defense as most people think. Look at last year, any team with a good QB and decent receivers tore our secondary apart and raped us over the middle. Did anyone think it was going to be much different this year ? Not me. A rookie RT, Nate Solder, took Cameron Wake to school. Holding or not holding, thats part of being an Olineman. Just the same, whats that tell you when a teams ROOKIE RT takes one of the better DEs in the league to school ? One of two things. Solder is going to be a Super Star or Wake is not as good as we all think he is. Not sure which one I believe right now. Soliai was made to look alike a little boy. Paul is fat and out of shape to the max 12 million down the toilet. Do not look for him to get a long term contract anytime soon, not from us.

 

[SkapePhin]

Greatly appreciated and I understand you point but there is something everyone overlooked.

Lots of heat and humidity in S Florida and most want us flogging our players relentlessly in practice to take advantage of that. I do not agree with that method at all.

It worked in Shulas time because there were little or no practice rules. The NFL wants their players to be protected now and there are no more two a days in pads.

The team did not get together until what ? late July ? Usually they are here from April to June then come back in July. That alone gets them used to the heat and humidity. Regardless of what people wish or think, most of the players do not live in Florida all year round. Cannot say I blame them, the weather there is plain miserable to say the least.

Add in the lockout where the players were at home, wherever they live and most live outside Florida. Guess what I am trying to say is this. With the short amount of conditioning that happened this year, team wise, I can fully understand why many players are not in the greatest shape.

Just the same though. NE defense looked far fitter then ours. In the second half it looked like NE was from the warm weather and our Defense basically looked gassed and that was from the get go in the second half.

Still say it and still believe it, this defense is NOT as an elite defense as most people think. Look at last year, any team with a good QB and decent receivers tore our secondary apart and raped us over the middle. Did anyone think it was going to be much different this year ? Not me. A rookie RT, Nate Solder, took Cameron Wake to school. Holding or not holding, thats part of being an Olineman. Just the same, whats that tell you when a teams ROOKIE RT takes one of the better DEs in the league to school ? One of two things. Solder is going to be a Super Star or Wake is not as good as we all think he is. Not sure which one I believe right now. Soliai was made to look alike a little boy. Paul is fat and out of shape to the max 12 million down the toilet. Do not look for him to get a long term contract anytime soon, not from us.

I think GSmack's data could explain why the Pats' defense didn't appear as gassed as the Dolphins'

The one thing no one has pointed out is that at point in the game. The Pats had a little over 21 minutes time of possession to Miami's 20 minutes. But the Pats had 13 more Offensive plays. That's a ton of extra plays in the same amount of time.

New England's gamelong 2 minute offense sucked all the life out of the defense. Granted, they didn't come out sharp to begin with, but it only got worse as the game wore on. The defense may not be elite, but I don't think you will see them cramping and gasping for breath all over the field for the rest of the season...

 

[UHHS]

I think GSmack's data could explain why the Pats' defense didn't appear as gassed as the Dolphins'



New England's gamelong 2 minute offense sucked all the life out of the defense. Granted, they didn't come out sharp to begin with, but it only got worse as the game wore on. The defense may not be elite, but I don't think you will see them cramping and gasping for breath all over the field for the rest of the season...

Like I said. The defense has been reading too many of its press clippings from the S Florida press all summer. Rude awakening boys, you are nothing special, not at all.