Lazor's OL in Philly | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Lazor's OL in Philly

Southbeach 2 said:
Would it surprise yo to know that Foles was actually faster than Tannehill? Why post things as fact that you do not know? Fascinated me.
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FWIW, Foles was faster than RT but, had to prove a point in posting.
 
Southbeach is right. Philly fan here and our OL was average in pass protection this year. Chip was able to compensate by moving the pocket, utilizing quick throws and screens and of course, play-action.

I'm not sure where people are getting this, "Foles had forever to throw" thing. I know everyone sees the playoff games and bases their opinion on the Saints game, but that wasn't typical. Watch the Dallas or Chiefs game if you want to see how helpless our OL could be in pass protection at times.
 
hooshoops said:
i'm interested in getting your take on the oc hire and how much good lazor did for nick foles as a qb coach and how much you think that it was chip kellys system and tempo and the oline personnel they had especially that was really the driving force in that offenses success???
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I know a lot of Philly's success this year was directly linked to the OL, most of whom were hurt in 2012. Only Evan Mathis started all year, Kelce I believe got hurt in the season opener, Jason Peter's got hurt in April working out, Herremans went down week 7 or 8 and Lane Johnson wasn't there. In 2012 they trotted King Dunlap out at LT...ouch.

I actually believe Chip Kelly and his system got way too much credit, afterall Kelly never hinted that he wanted Foles to be the starter. Michael Vick was supposed to be the guy who ran Kelly's offense, the only one not surprised by Foles success was Foles but really it came down to the running game. Not just McCoy but Bryce Brown and Chris Polk also had success running the ball, albeit in a limited role, all season. Didn't matter who was running the ball, gaping holes were plentiful all season. Polk, Brown and Foles combined to rush for 8 TD's themselves on limited oppurtunities. (I had to look that up but I knew they had success).

At the end of the day, I'm not the biggest fan of Nick Foles. I do believe a lot of luck played into his success, like the INT against Arizona on the last drive of the game that Mathieu was called for defensive holding, which shouldn't have been flagged or during his famed 7 TD game he threw up a pass to Desean Jackson that was well short, two Oakland DB's collided going for an INT and the ball bounced back 5 yards to a lucky Jackson who walked into the endzone but at the end of the day those plays don't counteract all the great throw's he did make....something about him I just don't like.

Riley Cooper, Brent Celek and Zach Ertz were difference makers. Size. Size. Size. Those guys are all 6" 4' ish and played like it. On a side note, sure Tannehill missed a few throws down the field to Wallace but boy oh boy did I want to punch Wallace in the face countless times for not having the timing to jump and catch the ball at it's highest point, something those 3 guys did very well for Philly, especially Cooper. I think Wallace will be the weapon we thought he could be over time but dude needs to stop "basket catching" the ball, waiting for it to land in his hands.

I'm at work finishing my day those are just some scrambled thoughts I have on the Eagles.

I don't think Tannehill and Foles have much of anything in common other then being drafted in the same year. What I'm most excited for is the potential for read option and more boot leg plays. It was criminal just how predictable Sherman was getting.

It goes without saying that we need size at WR/TE and talent along the OL.

Lamar Miller is someone I'm excited for too. Give the kid a crease....

At the end of the day, Mike Sherman and Jeff Ireland were the real problems with this team. I believe that whole heartedly, Ryan Tannehill is going to improve that much more. The throw RT made on 4th down against Baltimore on the final drive, (which was derailed ofcourse because of a sack that didn't allow us to attempt a legit FG) was the best throw any QB made in 2013. And I'd venture to guess Aaron Rodgers is the only other NFL QB who could make that throw across his body.

Greatness will be restored in Miami.
 
The Ghost said:
I know a lot of Philly's success this year was directly linked to the OL, most of whom were hurt in 2012. Only Evan Mathis started all year, Kelce I believe got hurt in the season opener, Jason Peter's got hurt in April working out, Herremans went down week 7 or 8 and Lane Johnson wasn't there. In 2012 they trotted King Dunlap out at LT...ouch.

I actually believe Chip Kelly and his system got way too much credit, afterall Kelly never hinted that he wanted Foles to be the starter. Michael Vick was supposed to be the guy who ran Kelly's offense, the only one not surprised by Foles success was Foles but really it came down to the running game. Not just McCoy but Bryce Brown and Chris Polk also had success running the ball, albeit in a limited role, all season. Didn't matter who was running the ball, gaping holes were plentiful all season. Polk, Brown and Foles combined to rush for 8 TD's themselves on limited oppurtunities. (I had to look that up but I knew they had success).

At the end of the day, I'm not the biggest fan of Nick Foles. I do believe a lot of luck played into his success, like the INT against Arizona on the last drive of the game that Mathieu was called for defensive holding, which shouldn't have been flagged or during his famed 7 TD game he threw up a pass to Desean Jackson that was well short, two Oakland DB's collided going for an INT and the ball bounced back 5 yards to a lucky Jackson who walked into the endzone but at the end of the day those plays don't counteract all the great throw's he did make....something about him I just don't like.

Riley Cooper, Brent Celek and Zach Ertz were difference makers. Size. Size. Size. Those guys are all 6" 4' ish and played like it. On a side note, sure Tannehill missed a few throws down the field to Wallace but boy oh boy did I want to punch Wallace in the face countless times for not having the timing to jump and catch the ball at it's highest point, something those 3 guys did very well for Philly, especially Cooper. I think Wallace will be the weapon we thought he could be over time but dude needs to stop "basket catching" the ball, waiting for it to land in his hands.

I'm at work finishing my day those are just some scrambled thoughts I have on the Eagles.

I don't think Tannehill and Foles have much of anything in common other then being drafted in the same year. What I'm most excited for is the potential for read option and more boot leg plays. It was criminal just how predictable Sherman was getting.

It goes without saying that we need size at WR/TE and talent along the OL.

Lamar Miller is someone I'm excited for too. Give the kid a crease....
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thanks for your take...mike wallace is a wr that wants to run under the ball and cradle it...i wouldn't count on him ever being a go up and get it at the highest point guy...just not a part of his game...wasn't in pittsburgh hasn't been here either...
 
Foles throwing faster than RT had to do with a few things like a lot of throws to McCoy, a lot of short crossing routes to Cooper, and a lot more wide open dudes running free. They set up their plays much better than Miami, confusing the defense, and creating spaces for their guys.
 
Mudder1310 said:
Foles throwing faster than RT had to do with a few things like a lot of throws to McCoy, a lot of short crossing routes to Cooper, and a lot more wide open dudes running free. They set up their plays much better than Miami, confusing the defense, and creating spaces for their guys.
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that and a lot of it was the tempo and teams not being able to sub out personnel and getting worn down
 
hooshoops said:
my problem and i think peopleare gonna take issue with it is i think it's chip kelly that is the one that deserves the credit for what happened in philly in 2013...kelly brought the o the system is a very good one (til nfl teams figure it out) i dont see where anything lazor did made foles a good qb he's not good to me anyways though...hell the guy stares at rush pressure in the pocket does not keep his eye level up under pressure etc...

i don't know...but i think these guys are riding kellys coat tails...
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Unless Kelly's system is conducive to manufacturing great passer rating stats, and I don't think thats the case, then Foles actually played great this season. In 8 of his 10 starts regular season starts and in his only playoff start he had a passer rating of 100+, that's simply incredible and on a Peyton Manning type level. Nothing stands to me to suggest it was anything but great QB play and Lazor definitely could be a big part of it, though Foles was OK statistically in limited starts last season as well.

If you want to say the up tempo played a role Tannehill had 588 attempts and Foles would have had about 496 attempts if you extrapolate his stats over 16 games. Foles is good in his own right (he's capable of having a great season anyway) and I'm sure Kelly's offense and having Shady McKoy helps, but hopefully Lazor was a big help too...
 
ebcrew said:
he was the QB coach...

jesus christ
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Alright, he was the QB coach. Where do you think guys get promoted from to become OC? Assistant coaching is essentially an apprenticeship to coordinator. If you're good you move up. Ask yourself why multiple teams were looking at this guy. If he was just a pedestrian coach they wouldn't be. NFL coaching circles are tight, people know who is good and who isn't.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
The OL in Philly last season was not very good in pass blocking. They actually ranked and graded out worse than the Dolphins.

However, when it came to run blocking, they were off the charts in their ZBS. They were #1 with a grade of 100.2. The second ranked team in Dallas had a grade of 30.6. We were #29 with a negative 67.

IF we can balance the books a bit to have some of that kinda run blocking, RT is gonna have one hell of a year in 2014 with Lazor.
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Well we have 4 spots to fill so we shall see. Definitely hope McKinnie isn't back as a starter

---------- Post added at 09:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 AM ----------
Southbeach 2 said:
NOT true, our OL sucked, just other OL's sucked worse. :)
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I think if u look at overall line play hard to argue any line was worse than ours
 
hooshoops said:
herremans was a tackle they moved to guard...something miami needs to start doing...take a college tackle like a zach martin for instance and put him at guard...a good move athlete with some solid feet on the inside...similar to what the pats did with logan mankins and i think zach martin projects closely to if kicked inside

lane johnson definitely had some struggles but the talent is all there he just needs time...that and he's got meat on the bone whereas our tackles are on their last legs...literally

philly also ran a bunch more plays and with faster tempo than us so they are gonna have more snaps for those numbers to come off and look bad...they have the best move oline athletic oline in football by a long ways
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I disagree with you on Lazor hoops. Being a UVa fan also, I was very impressed with what he did, particularly when using a pocket passer. The talent was not great and very sporadic, and when Lazor left we saw it fall down to it's level of truly subpar.

But, we agree on Zack Martin. Let's face it, to be good enough for the NFL, you either come from a huge football factory like Alabama (Steen is an example) where you might have played guard, or you were on a team with another great OL who occupied LT (Eugene Monroe and Branden Albert at UVa simultaneously), or you played LT in college. The vast majority of non-centers in the NFL played LT in college ... because they were the best OL on their team and that's where they put the best OL. So most OG's are projects from LT's in college. Zack Martin profiles very well to that. Personally, that's the reason I think we have a sliver of a chance of grabbing him in round 2, precisely because he isn't long enough to play OT well in the NFL, and he'll be drafted with the OG's after a long list of OT's are taken. I really like him, and my dream draft starts by stealing Taylor Lewan in round 1 and Zack Martin in round 2 ... but I'm sure that's a pipe dream. Knowing our luck we'll draft Antonio Richardson out of Tennessee instead. :(
 
dlockz said:
Well we have 4 spots to fill so we shall see. Definitely hope McKinnie isn't back as a starter

I think if u look at overall line play hard to argue any line was worse than ours
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Our interior pass blocking was pretty good with Pouncey being #1, and Jerry and Cog doing well. The OT's sucked, and our run blocking was the worst I have ever seen from this team.

That being said, there were actually teams who were worse. No one here, including myself, watches the other 31 team's OL. We just look at our team and see how bad it was but, other team's are really worse. It is a league wide problem, which many do not understand.
 
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