LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...

[nyjunc]

Perception is a funny thing. That's the cool thing about modern sports though. We now have people that follow every game and look at every play and every shot. So no longer do we have to rely on the few images that stick in the mind to pass judgment on a player's performance.

I'm sorry, but your argument has no basis in reality. Its been created and molded by the media and its fascination with the 10 second highlight. Kobe has had some great moments, and some that were not so great. As has Lebron. But there is no comparison, in the regular or post season, to their performance in the clutch. Kobe takes more shots than anyone in the league but he doesn't make many of them. Lebron is one of the few players that plays better in the clutch, takes fewer jumpers, collects more rebounds, blocks more shots, and creates more turnovers.

The first is the main difference between the two. Kobe takes jumpers....generally long and fading away from the basket. Lebron bullies his way to the hoop. One is a horribly inefficient method of scoring, the other is one of the more effective means of putting the ball in the basket.

Lebron doesn't do enough bullying his way to the hoop in big games as he often settles for jumpers.

If lebron had played well in the clutch he'd have a title by now or at the very least another finals app or two.

 

[JCane]

LeBron constantly goes to the basket because there isn't a player in the league that can stop him.

And had LeBron had a decent team surrounding him all of these years instead of trash, he would have more Finals appearances and possibly even a title. That's why he left. And he should expect one of those two this season from the Heat. Not sure why LeBron catches all the hate. Majority of the blame should go to Dan Gilbert who makes just as many terrible decisions with his team as the Dolphins do.

 

[Ferretsquig]

Lebron doesn't do enough bullying his way to the hoop in big games as he often settles for jumpers.

If lebron had played well in the clutch he'd have a title by now or at the very least another finals app or two.

As I said.....perception is a funny thing.

 

[nyjunc]

LeBron constantly goes to the basket because there isn't a player in the league that can stop him.

And had LeBron had a decent team surrounding him all of these years instead of trash, he would have more Finals appearances and possibly even a title. That's why he left. And he should expect one of those two this season from the Heat. Not sure why LeBron catches all the hate. Majority of the blame should go to Dan Gilbert who makes just as many terrible decisions with his team as the Dolphins do.

He should! the problem is he has settled for jumpers too often in the past.

he had a good enough cast around him to make multiple Finals IF he played like a superstar when it mattered.

I don't hate Lebron, I hate seeing great players come up small then blame everyone else. I hated the way Lebron left and as a fan I wish he would have stayed to will his team to a title but he admitted he wasn't good enough and he neded to join an all-star team to win. That part I hate.

 

[Ferretsquig]

He should! the problem is he has settled for jumpers too often in the past.

If you keep writing it does it make it more realistic to you?

Just out of curiosity.....what percentage of his shots do you think are jumpers? Lets say the last 5 minutes in playoff games where the score is within 5 pts. What percentage for him and what for Kobe or whatever other player you define as being clutch. And what percentage of those shots do you think he makes?

 

[jree]

On sunday night:

Lebron James : 23 pts/13 assists = Win

Kobe Bryant : 41 pts/0 assists = Loss

Don't tell me that Kobe isn't surrounded by better players either. Plus the power of the legue has shifted from the West to the East so his competition isn't as tough as LBJ's. Lebron is a much smarter player. Kobe doesn't win any rings without Shaq/Gasol.

All the teams he lost a playoff series to were stacked teams that were eventually NBA champs, with the exception of Orlando but they still ended up beating the defending NBA champs anyway. James had to pull shots out of his butthole just to get a game 2 win and for the rest of the series the team, as usual didn't show up. C'mon man, a 49 point game one and they still lose.

The almighty God of Basketball himself doesn't win any rings without a great team surrounding him and even then he doesn't win one until Detroit and Boston started their demise. Before that, Jordan was putting up asinine numbers against these teams and still losing the series. Now don't think that I'm taking anything away from Jordan, I just wish most people would stop taking away from Lebron and say that he chokes or that he doesn't play like a superstar should.

 

[JCane]

He should! the problem is he has settled for jumpers too often in the past.

he had a good enough cast around him to make multiple Finals IF he played like a superstar when it mattered.

I don't hate Lebron, I hate seeing great players come up small then blame everyone else. I hated the way Lebron left and as a fan I wish he would have stayed to will his team to a title but he admitted he wasn't good enough and he neded to join an all-star team to win. That part I hate.

You have such an agenda.

LeBron would have rotted in Cleveland because Dan Gilbert never would have given him the help he needed. Dan Marino v2.0

LeBron did what he knew he had to do to win a title. He can't do it alone. No one can. We've been over this. Bart Scott, Darrelle Revis, Braylon Edwards, and Santonio Holmes all need to leave so that Mark Sanchez can win a ring all alone.

See how dumb that sounds.

 

[PHINATIC13]

:snack:.....good thread boys....

 

[tylerdolphin]

He should! the problem is he has settled for jumpers too often in the past.

he had a good enough cast around him to make multiple Finals IF he played like a superstar when it mattered.

I don't hate Lebron, I hate seeing great players come up small then blame everyone else. I hated the way Lebron left and as a fan I wish he would have stayed to will his team to a title but he admitted he wasn't good enough and he neded to join an all-star team to win. That part I hate.

Didnt read the rest of this thread so sorry if you already answered, but have you watched the Cavs this year? If the season they are having doesnt prove how valuable Lebron is, then nothing will. That team around him in Cleveland was total dog****.

 

[nyjunc]

If you keep writing it does it make it more realistic to you?

Just out of curiosity.....what percentage of his shots do you think are jumpers? Lets say the last 5 minutes in playoff games where the score is within 5 pts. What percentage for him and what for Kobe or whatever other player you define as being clutch. And what percentage of those shots do you think he makes?

I don't know, I haven't committed it to memory, I have just seem him fail in big spots over and over again and I was rooting FOR him. I wanted to see him win in Cleveland.

On sunday night:

Lebron James : 23 pts/13 assists = Win

Kobe Bryant : 41 pts/0 assists = Loss

Don't tell me that Kobe isn't surrounded by better players either. Plus the power of the legue has shifted from the West to the East so his competition isn't as tough as LBJ's. Lebron is a much smarter player. Kobe doesn't win any rings without Shaq/Gasol.

All the teams he lost a playoff series to were stacked teams that were eventually NBA champs, with the exception of Orlando but they still ended up beating the defending NBA champs anyway. James had to pull shots out of his butthole just to get a game 2 win and for the rest of the series the team, as usual didn't show up. C'mon man, a 49 point game one and they still lose.

The almighty God of Basketball himself doesn't win any rings without a great team surrounding him and even then he doesn't win one until Detroit and Boston started their demise. Before that, Jordan was putting up asinine numbers against these teams and still losing the series. Now don't think that I'm taking anything away from Jordan, I just wish most people would stop taking away from Lebron and say that he chokes or that he doesn't play like a superstar should.

Please don't compare Lebron to Michael. Michael was competing w/ the big boys from day 1. It took a few years to break through but he was competing against MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better teams earlier in his career and he didn't have too much help. last I checked Michael didn't aske to leave Chicago or go join Magic in LA or go join other star players. This is why lebron is hated now- he took the gutless way out. He wants to be handed a championship rather than fighting through and carrying a team.

Didnt read the rest of this thread so sorry if you already answered, but have you watched the Cavs this year? If the season they are having doesnt prove how valuable Lebron is, then nothing will. That team around him in Cleveland was total dog****.

The Cavs this year are not the Cavs of last year or the last few years. They have less talent than they had around lebron and they have been really beat up as well.

 

[JCane]

Gutless way out.

Wow.

Magic fell into a superstar loaded team in LOS ANGELES.

Larry Bird was on a superstar loaded team in BOSTON.

Jordan was lucky enough to be in sports crazy CHICAGO.

Guarantee if any of those three had landed in that dump called Cleveland they wouldn't have won **** and would have bailed to win a title.

Fact is, Cleveland sucks and will continue to suck without LeBron. LeBron wasn't winning **** in Cleveland. He seen it and so did most everyone else. Why can't you see it?

 

[nyjunc]

Gutless way out.

Wow.

Magic fell into a superstar loaded team in LOS ANGELES.

Larry Bird was on a superstar loaded team in BOSTON.

Jordan was lucky enough to be in sports crazy CHICAGO.

Guarantee if any of those three had landed in that dump called Cleveland they wouldn't have won **** and would have bailed to win a title.

Fact is, Cleveland sucks and will continue to suck without LeBron. LeBron wasn't winning **** in Cleveland. He seen it and so did most everyone else. Why can't you see it?

Did Magic force his way to LA? was LA winning titles before he got there? Their last title was 1972.

Bird was DRAFTED by Boston just like Magic by the Lakers and Boston won 29 games the year before Larry and 61 the year after.

The Bulls were a terrible franchise when Jordan made them relevant and again they drafted him. before Jordan the Bulls made one playoff app int he previous 7 years. They would never miss agai until the year after he retired.

The Cavs were like the Bulls except they were not too far removed from having one of the best franchises in the NBA. They never broke through for a title(mostly thanks to Jordan and co.) but they had EC contenders nearly every year from the late 80s to the late 90s.

Jordan would not have left Cleveland, he would have willed that franchise to championships. Lebron wants 6 titles w/o the hard work Jordan put in to get his franchise over the top and win their first ever title. Much like the Cavs w/ Lebron the Bulls had never won a title or even been to the Finals before Michael.

 

[tylerdolphin]

The Cavs this year are not the Cavs of last year or the last few years. They have less talent than they had around lebron and they have been really beat up as well.

What other players did they lose? Delonte and Shaq are the only ones that come to mind and neither of them are difference makers at all. That Cavs team was 100% Lebron. Their next best player was Mo ****ing Williams. You are not going to beat the Celtics or the Lakers in a series when thats the case. It just aint gonna happen.

 

[nyjunc]

What other players did they lose? Delonte and Shaq are the only ones that come to mind and neither of them are difference makers at all. That Cavs team was 100% Lebron. Their next best player was Mo ****ing Williams. You are not going to beat the Celtics or the Lakers in a series when thats the case. It just aint gonna happen.

Of course that team isn't winning anything w/o Lebron but he had enough talent to win. You don't win as many games as they won in the reg season and not have a chance in postseason. They lost b/c their best player struggled. The lakers and Celtics teams are really good, they aren't all time great teams that are impossible to beat and they only faced one of those teams anyway and that was last year when lebron was putrid.

 

[tylerdolphin]

Of course that team isn't winning anything w/o Lebron but he had enough talent to win. You don't win as many games as they won in the reg season and not have a chance in postseason. They lost b/c their best player struggled. The lakers and Celtics teams are really good, they aren't all time great teams that are impossible to beat and they only faced one of those teams anyway and that was last year when lebron was putrid.

Winning with one player in the regular season is a totally different animal than doing it right through the playoffs.