Lessons Learned from the Playoffs

[SF Dolphin Fan]

The biggest take away is that I am not sure there are better organizations than the Ravens, 49ers and Chiefs. They are intelligent from the GM to the players. Especially the Ravens and 49ers but the chiefs had won two division championships before Mahomes too. Just top notch organizations and great coaches. We have Grier. That's the biggest difference. We have a guy that's biggest talent is being mediocre and somehow keeping a job.

I agree with most if this.

Not sure I understand the Grier critism, though. Are there 10 better rosters than Miami's? I don't see it. I think he's assembled a top third roster.

I think he's made mistakes, but look at the overall talent. Maybe hiring an inexperienced coach could be debated, but McDaniel could still turn out to be the right choice.

 

[Mello Yello]

Yes but, Miami didn't hire just a first-time Head Coach, they hired a guy with no experience at calling plays and running an offense. IOW, McDaniel is not just learning how to be a HC, he also has to learn how to be an OC... something that he should already know how to do but doesn't. That's the equivalent of buying a race car and giving the keys to a kid who doesn't know how to drive.

While I agree with the general point, I think what you're describing is the modern NFL.

> All coaches are specialized these days. The days of a coach having experience on both sides of the ball or a slew of experience in different systems are gone. Offensive HCs will have very little say over their teams defense and vice versa. They'll hire someone more experienced to be the "HC" on that side of the ball.

> All offensive coaches will generally hog the play-sheet turning their OC into a protege, rather than a play-caller.

> Turnover is rampant now. Teams have figured out that there's a lot of profit in that turnover and the constant "rebuild" culture. It's a huge part of what makes the NFL interesting if you're a bad team.

> Teams are even more addicted now to the mentality of finding the next big thing. The race for the next great, young HC is a huge part of what the NFL is about so it's very common for guys to be hired before they're "ready."

 

[Mello Yello]

Not sure I understand the Grier criticism, though...Maybe hiring an inexperienced coach could be debated, but McDaniel could still turn out to be the right choice.

Let's be honest SFDF, if there's an epic blunder it's not McDaniel. It's the wasted years with Flores. It cost Miami 2 productive years of development and cut the window of having a productive QB on a rookie deal in half.

In hindsight, the blunder of hiring Flores is ugly for so many reasons:

(1) The Dolphins wanted to scrap the '19 season. Apparently Flores did not.
(2) The above probably cost us Joe Burrow who we know the Dolphins reached out to Cincinnati about prior to the draft.
(3) Scrapping the season led to a lot of players being ticked off and certainly helped push All-Pro FS Minkah Fitzpatrick off to Pittsburgh.
(4) Flores looks like an objectively bad hire in retrospect being so disagreeable and unable to build an offensive staff.
(5) The Dolphins shouldn't have hired a guy who wasn't on board with the Owner's tampering nonsense.
(6) Justified or not, the Dolphins ended up part of Flores' lawsuit against the NFL. Talk about a rebuild blowing up in your face!
(7) The Dolphins shouldn't have hired a guy who wasn't all-in for drafting the QB they were apparently lusting after.
(8) The damage was apparently so bad that the Dolphins QB's own self-confidence was rocked to the core.

It's hard to look at that just say, "Oh, well. Grier got it wrong."

I mean, I'm sorry, but the HCs of the last decade all got fired for similar failures: Sparano, Philbin, Gase, etc.

I think the reality is that Grier is protected because he'll do anything Ross wants and is probably just as addicted to the splashy moves. Ultimately it's a symbiotic relationship. This front office is impulsive and lacks a clear vision. You can make that case pretty strongly at this point whether you think things are trending upward or not.

5 years ago Grier was given complete autonomy to do literally whatever he thought best. If it meant tanking, he had permission. If it meant trading away the team's best player, he was free to do it. And here we sit. We're not terrible, but we have a lot of questions and a lot of the same issues we had before: the OL is a problem, the defense is a patchwork, our DC just walked out, we're asking for more from our draft picks and we haven't won a Playoff game or established an obvious path forward. How much has really changed since Chris Grier first became GM and hired Adam Gase?

 

[lynx]

no idea what everyone is going on about the offensive line.

a very good line was built (as i have said numerous times in other threads).

Armstead - Wynn - Williams - Hunt - Jackson.

Could it have been better? Pretty much any offensive line in NFL history "could have been better."

Then Armstead did what Armstead unfortunately does. Miss time.

What happens?

Kendall Lamm steps in and, while he is no Terron Armstead, he played LT far better than I could have hoped for.

That is good offensive line construction.

Connor Williams was a top 3 center virtually all season, until he was injured and out for the year.

Unlike the good fortune we had with Lamm, you aren't replacing that guy from the bench.

Do I wish we had a top 10 or top 15 center just hanging out on the bench in case of injury? Of course, but that isn't really realistic.

When Eich had Wynn to his left and Hunt to his right, he held up ok at center, but again, Connor was virtually the top guy.

Then Wynn goes out, then Hunt goes out, then Austin even missed time.

So you are plugging in Cotton, Jones, Kion Smith, etc. etc. etc. and things were rocky.

So what is your real criticism? Our projected top five wasn't up to your standard? Our depth was insufficient? Something else?

If it's the second one, I'm pretty sure every team in the league laments they aren't 2 and 3 deep with (quality) starting caliber players on the OLine.

I think it was a formidable starting five. So I guess it really depends on "luck", whether they get injured or not.

Tampa made Mahomes look like Teddy Bridgewater in the Super Bowl and the Chiefs spent all that off season getting better Oline personal, I believe it was that game where they knew they couldn't rely on Mahomes alone

 

[lynx]

Let's be honest SFDF, if there's an epic blunder it's not McDaniel. It's the wasted years with Flores. It cost Miami 2 productive years of development and cut the window of having a productive QB on a rookie deal in half.

In hindsight, the blunder of hiring Flores is ugly for so many reasons:

(1) The Dolphins wanted to scrap the '19 season. Apparently Flores did not.
(2) The above probably cost us Joe Burrow who we know the Dolphins reached out to Cincinnati about prior to the draft.
(3) Scraping the season led to a lot of players being ticked off and certainly helped push Minkah off to Pittsburgh.
(4) Flores looks like an objectively bad hire in retrospect being so disagreeable and unable to build a staff.
(5) The Dolphins shouldn't have hired a guy who wasn't on board with the Owner's tampering nonsense.
(6) Justified or not, the Dolphins ended up part of Flores' lawsuit against the NFL.
(7) You shouldn't have hired a guy who wasn't all-in for drafting the QB you were apparently lusting after.
(8) The damage was apparently so bad your QB's confidence was rocked to the core.

It's hard to look at that just say, "Oh, well. We got it wrong."

I mean, I'm sorry, but the HCs of the last decade all got fired for similar failures: Sparano, Philbin, Gase, etc.

I think the reality is that Grier is protected by he'll do anything Ross wants and ultimately it's a symbiotic relationship. This front office is impulsive and lacks a clear vision. You can make that case pretty strongly at this point whether you think things are trending upward or not.

It's true. In a very obvious tank year in 2019, Grier goes out and hires one of the top sought out coaches at the time who has something to prove as a head coach. He would have better off hiring an old washed-up dinosaur who could make us laugh in the press conferences at how bad the team was doing

 

[Rowdy1972]

I agree with most if this.

Not sure I understand the Grier critism, though. Are there 10 better rosters than Miami's? I don't see it. I think he's assembled a top third roster.

I think he's made mistakes, but look at the overall talent. Maybe hiring an inexperienced coach could be debated, but McDaniel could still turn out to be the right choice.

Look how's he's had to acquire that talent though. Hill, Ramsey, Armstead, Chubb. All acquired though trades or massive contracts. All those guys are top 5-6 players on the team. Not nearly enough home grown talent.

 

[tay0365]

Our roster is nowhere close to the four teams that played yesterday. Sure, we’re better than we’ve been in the last 25 years but we aren’t close. The qb is way down on our list of deficiencies. We either trade away our draft picks or squander them like they don’t matter. The four teams yesterday hit on far more picks than we do.

If injuries had not happened, you would have noticed our roster (At least starting roster) was not just on level with those teams, they were better.

On offense:

We had arguably the most dangerous pair of receivers.

Arguably the most dangerous pair of RBs.

On the line we had a top ten Tackle, TOP 5 Center, and and top 15 Guard.

Some may have a problem with Tua, but the last two years he has been one of the highest rated QB in the NFL. Including top passer going deep.

On Defense:

We have one of the best pair of DT in Football.

Not 1, not 2, but 3 quality pass-rushers that teams have to account for.

One of the best Safeties in Football, with 2 other very solid Safties.

One of the best pair of Corners in the NFL.

Before the Injuries Miami was the top offense and top 10 defense.

If you say Miami roster is not as good because of Injuries...I agree.

If you say they are not as good in a straight up talent comparison to all the playoff teams, then we disagree.

 

[Mello Yello]

If injuries had not happened, you would have noticed our roster (At least starting roster) was not just on level with those teams, they were better.
If you say they are not as good in a straight up talent comparison to all the playoff teams, then we disagree.

I agree. If our guys were healthy we'd all feel 100x better. I'm not doubting that.

Then again, look at who's been hurt:

(1) Armstead - aging player nearing retirement with a massive history of missing time with injury.
(2) Chubb - available in trade with Denver largely because he wasn't consistently healthy / productive.
(3) Phillips - good pass rush prospect who fell in the draft due to big history of college injury.
(4) Tua - huge injury history in both college and NFL.
(5) Howard - aging player nearing retirement with a long history of getting banged up to the point of playing badly.

Then you can add a bunch of other aging vets like Wynn, Ramsey, etc.

I mean, on the one hand you're correct, but on the other this roster was explicitly built around guys who were injury-concerns. I've always argued that the depth was supposed to provide insurance against that, and I think it did to a large degree, but you got what you purchased with a lot of these guys.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Look how's he's had to acquire that talent though. Hill, Ramsey, Armstead, Chubb. All acquired though trades or massive contracts. All those guys are top 5-6 players on the team. Not nearly enough home grown talent.

I think the best GM's use every avenue to get better, draft, trades and free agagency. Grier has been bold with moves for Hill, Ramsey and Chubb.

I do agree that those large contracts are now at the point where they could be problematic.

Obviously, the one piece missing is playoff success and Miami has stumbled into the postseason the last two years with too many injuries to count.

Part of that is on Grier, perhaps, for taking a lot of chances on injury prone players.

 

[Martel13]

Just read an article that was hyping the super bowl and how much the Kansas City and San Francisco rosters have changed since they met in the big game four years ago.

Basically, the article was saying how these teams were smart not to overspend on talent. KC traded away Hill as an example, and spread the money around, taking the defense to another level. San Francisco traded Buckner, replaced Garoppolo etc. Even though they made a mistake on Trey Lance, they hit on Brock Purdy.

Stability in the coaching staff was also mentioned, as the article highlighted Shanahan getting off to a rough start with the 49ers but how the organization stuck with him.

So, basically the message for Miami might be don't overspend on Wilkins, give McDaniel time etc.

Wait you can draft multiple QBs !?!

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Let's be honest SFDF, if there's an epic blunder it's not McDaniel. It's the wasted years with Flores. It cost Miami 2 productive years of development and cut the window of having a productive QB on a rookie deal in half.

In hindsight, the blunder of hiring Flores is ugly for so many reasons:

(1) The Dolphins wanted to scrap the '19 season. Apparently Flores did not.
(2) The above probably cost us Joe Burrow who we know the Dolphins reached out to Cincinnati about prior to the draft.
(3) Scrapping the season led to a lot of players being ticked off and certainly helped push All-Pro FS Minkah Fitzpatrick off to Pittsburgh.
(4) Flores looks like an objectively bad hire in retrospect being so disagreeable and unable to build an offensive staff.
(5) The Dolphins shouldn't have hired a guy who wasn't on board with the Owner's tampering nonsense.
(6) Justified or not, the Dolphins ended up part of Flores' lawsuit against the NFL. Talk about a rebuild blowing up in your face!
(7) The Dolphins shouldn't have hired a guy who wasn't all-in for drafting the QB they were apparently lusting after.
(8) The damage was apparently so bad that the Dolphins QB's own self-confidence was rocked to the core.

It's hard to look at that just say, "Oh, well. Grier got it wrong."

I mean, I'm sorry, but the HCs of the last decade all got fired for similar failures: Sparano, Philbin, Gase, etc.

I think the reality is that Grier is protected because he'll do anything Ross wants and is probably just as addicted to the splashy moves. Ultimately it's a symbiotic relationship. This front office is impulsive and lacks a clear vision. You can make that case pretty strongly at this point whether you think things are trending upward or not.

5 years ago Grier was given complete autonomy to do literally whatever he thought best. If it meant tanking, he had permission. If it meant trading away the team's best player, he was free to do it. And here we sit. We're not terrible, but we have a lot of questions and a lot of the same issues we had before: the OL is a problem, the defense is a patchwork, our DC just walked out, we're asking for more from our draft picks and we haven't won a Playoff game or established an obvious path forward. How much has really changed since Chris Grier first became GM and hired Adam Gase?

All good points.

The lack of stability at head coach over the last 25ish years is a real problem. As a GM it means you are changing your focus somewhat, depending on what coach is hired.

In other words, looking for different types of players to fit different schemes. Miami has mostly gone with offensive minded coaches, but shifted gears with Flores.

The teams with stability know the types of players they are looking for. You can almost predict Baltimore types of players in the draft, as an example.

Of course, getting the right head coach is on the GM as well. I hope the McDaniel hire works out and that the team doesn't return to the previous cycle of wash, rinse and repeat.

 

[VAFinsfan72]

I learned that we need a better QB, we need to build the trenches, have a more diversified offense and an improved defense and better coaching.

 

[gofins60]

While I agree with the general point, I think what you're describing is the modern NFL.

> All coaches are specialized these days. The days of a coach having experience on both sides of the ball or a slew of experience in different systems are gone. Offensive HCs will have very little say over their teams defense and vice versa. They'll hire someone more experienced to be the "HC" on that side of the ball.

> All offensive coaches will generally hog the play-sheet turning their OC into a protege, rather than a play-caller.

I understand that offensive HCs might not know anything about defense, and that's okay. However, McDaniel doesn't even know anything about running an offense, yet he decided to run the offense and call plays without having any experience at all doing this. Other OCs turned HC have experience running the offense and calling plays, so it's okay if they call plays as a HC. McDaniel basically skipped the whole OC position and went right from being an assistant coach to being the Head Coach. IMO, only a complete idiot would hire a guy with no playcalling experience to be both the offensive playcaller and Head Coach.

And, being "specialized" means nothing if you can't change what you're doing in order to win a game. If a defense is playing zone and it's not working, then the DC and players should be able to change it up and play man. An OC should be well-versed in different types of offenses, so that he's able to run whatever the situation should call for, whether it's the vertical passing game, a smash-mouth running game, or anything in between.

 

[Ray R]

To me the biggest failure the Dolphins organization and its F/O has been its inability to stop chasing after the next big thing. Whether it be a F/A or HC Candidate. Time and time again they've failed.

I was an idiot to think, once Grier stripped the team down to its studs and rebuilt it would have been through the draft and smart cost efficient F/A signings. At first it was appearently going to be the case. Then all the trades and bad F/A signings with huge contracts being attached took the league and team by storm.

Paying out huge contracts to injury riddled players and bad off field decisions by the ownership have put Miami in a very small window that appears to be closing. They lack cap space, with they only way out, being kicking the can down the road. They also lack draft capital to help offset the huge contracts they've paid. Not a good position to be in.

Sure they can create cap space, but it's going to cost them in the future and more importantly some good players.

The San Francisco model was what I had hoped Miami would become, but unfortunately even with McDaniel it doesn't appear the two organizations are on the same page. Especially now that Miami is at a point its staring down the barrel of a potential $250m contract for Tua. A player that has only had one full season without injury. Tua's new contract is going to require Miami to be very good draft wise. To offset it's cap ramifications.

Not sure Van Ginkle, Wilkins and potentially others will be back.

But, but, but that's what many of the posters on Fin Heaven said they wanted.
Were they wrong? - LOL

You can bet your a** they were. - LOL

 

[Ray R]

I learned that we need a better QB, we need to build the trenches, have a more diversified offense and an improved defense and better coaching.

"Lack of Learning Alert"