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Let O-Gun go

phinman1

phinman1

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We need to let Ogunleye go and get what we can for him, preferably a 1st and 3rd, or maybe just a 1st if it is high enough. Not undervaluing O-Gun, I realize he is a player, but we have too many needs on O and can't possibly have yet another monster contract on D.

Before O-Gun, there was Mixon who did very well on the other side of JT. He left, then O-Gun came in. We have Bowens waiting in the wings, and Otis Grigsby may be an up and comer. What would help with the loss of O-Gun are blitz packages that actually get to the QB. Is it me, or are our blitzes pathetic? We never get to the QB, and we're picked up every time.

Bates needs to be more imaginative. If we can improve the blitz, we'll be fine without O-Gun. Let's draft a stud WR, and with the other number 1 get Carey for the O-line.
 
Mixon never did nearly as well as Ogunleye has in Miami. There is only one person who had more sacks opposite Jason Taylor, and that is Trace Armstrong.

Losing Ogunleye would be big. Even though he did have Taylor on the other side, he still received a lot of attention from opposing offenses. I'm still on the bubble on whether we should let him go or not, it really depends on what kind of contract he gets from another team and what pick they have.
 
Originally posted by iceblizzard69
Mixon never did nearly as well as Ogunleye has in Miami. There is only one person who had more sacks opposite Jason Taylor, and that is Trace Armstrong.

Losing Ogunleye would be big. Even though he did have Taylor on the other side, he still received a lot of attention from opposing offenses. I'm still on the bubble on whether we should let him go or not, it really depends on what kind of contract he gets from another team and what pick they have.
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Mixon didn't play every down, and Armstrong got all those sacks because he came in on passing downs.

No I am not poo poo'in O-Gun's talent, that would be stupid, however we have more pressing needs than a 2nd STUD DE. If someone is willing to give up a 1st and a 3rd or even a 1st I think this team would be stupid to pass on that. Mainly because we cannot afford the amount of $ it's going to take O-Gun here.

Oliver...
 
Mixon was waaaaaay better than Ogun against the run for the first 3 years of his career, but in his last year in Miami decided he wanted to be a pass rusher, lost a bunch of weight and subsequentley started to get blown off the line in the running game.

He was a very good run stopper, but alas, could not get to the QB.
 
Peronally, I'd love to have him around; even over the additional picks. It's just that he's going to be asking for a Kearse sized contract, and I don't know that in the market scheme of things, he isn't worth that much. But, I've got to agree that we can't afford more monster megadeals on the D side of the ball. If there was someway he'd accept something less than one of those huge contracts, I'd say keep him around, but he's going to demand it and, I dare say, probably deserves it.
 
Problem is, no team is going to give a 1st and 3rd. Curtis Martin was the only player to ever bring a 1st and 3rd and that was cause Paecells was trying to get back at his old team.
 
You guys come out with things out of your ***. Mixon was never ever as a good as a hard nose end as Oguneleye has been in miami. He is without a doubt one of the best ends in the league. It will take a more consistent pass rusher and run player to replace such a good player.


The most stupid statement anyone can make in these boards which pisses me off is that he was with taylor. Taylor got beat a lot last year and pounded. He recorded sacks against mediocre quarterbacks with bad lines.
 
We'll be ok without O-Gun. He benefitted from playing opposite JT just like JT bennefitted from playing opposite O-Gun, and so will Otis Grigsby. If you watch film though, you'll see teams sliding their OL most the time towards JT.....which really helped O-Guns sacks. Grigsby will do fine, or whomever else wins the job. They are saying the same things about Grigs that they did 3-4 years ago about O-Gun.

But I only want to let O-Gun go if we use whatever we get (player or pick) on Offense.
 
juniorseau55, it is not coincidence that the DE that plays opposite from taylor ALWAYS has good numbers. Sure Ogun is talented, but so will the next DE we bring in, if Ogun leaves.

I compare our LDE position to that of the running backs in Denver.We'll always produce them so if we can get value for one, let him go and unearth another gem.

Nobody questions his talent, but they do wonder if his sheer numbers can be attributed to taylor's presence.
 
Originally posted by Bodzilla29
juniorseau55, it is not coincidence that the DE that plays opposite from taylor ALWAYS has good numbers. Sure Ogun is talented, but so will the next DE we bring in, if Ogun leaves.

I compare our LDE position to that of the running backs in Denver.We'll always produce them so if we can get value for one, let him go and unearth another gem.

Nobody questions his talent, but they do wonder if his sheer numbers can be attributed to taylor's presence.
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Exactly.

Anybody else notice that when JT was busy having everything including the kitchen sink thrown at him, that O-Gun would have his monster games, and then when teams finally started adjusting and playing more balanced protection scheemes then JT went berserk and had monster games forcing teams to try anything to stop him again.

Opponents finally decided it was just better to let O-Gun have his fun and stop JT any way they can. Any good pass rushing DE should be able to put up solid numbers opposite JT.

Will a "Pretty good" DE put up numbers like Wally?

Probably not.

Will a "Pretty good" DE play well enough to justify obtaining first and 3rd round picks and a smaller sized contract?

I believe so.
 
Sure Ogun benefits from playing alongside Jason Taylor on the defensive line. That is unquestioned.

However his sucess is not built on that , he is not a product of that. He had a monster year , not only rushing and sacking the QB , but also being stout against the run . He is twice the talent Mixon is.

It is a quandry , have him in the fold or get fair value..... BUT what a lot seem to neglect , so far we have not gotten anything tangible as an option let him go.

You can say , if you were a team that needed a DE , say a relatively young Pro Bowler , would you draft someone that could step right in and contribute with say the 30 th pick? Of course ..... how about the 22nd? probably..... the 13th? hmmmmm then throw in a third rounder as well?

I only want fair value , no less..... if not I will take a Pro Bowl DE and pair him with maybe the best DE in football and leave it at that and go get talent via another route.... Miami can't " settle " and I doubt they will with Speilman...........
 
people saying that o gun got 15 sacks this season because he played opposite of taylor sound stupid.

when you slide protection you dont slide your right tackle, right gaurd over to protect against the LDE(taylor). You either slide double team with the gaurd already on that side or in run situations the center may come out and lead block.

O gun flat out had a good year, same as when armstrong flat out had a good year, there is no underlining that. And where you guys get it confused is when people say "yea he benefits from playing opposite JT" what they mean is that teams can't just game plan for one person on the D line.

when o gun was racking up all those sacks do you think teams weren't "sliding the protection" over to his side? Of course they were, and i seen o gun beat double teams.


Case in point: Ty law had how many int's? 8? The CB playing opposite him had how many? um....um... Well with ya'll argument the other Cb should of had either more because teams wouldn't throw to ty law's side or equal, but that wasn't the case.

WR's? Chambers had almost 1000 yrds last season and i believe like 7-8 td catches. i am not sure. he was CONSTANTLY DOUBLED TEAM.

How many yrds did the players playing opposite chambers have?

Hmmm, sure doesn't prove the point that playing opposite a great player means your numbers won't stick independently.

There are some cases where it does, but o gun is not one of them and that is my point. If he gets traded, leaves via FA, he will be sorely missed and I'd expect JT's numbers to be alot less then they were this year!
 
Often it's the LT trying to slide out and block the outside while the DE attempts a swim move inside, only to be pancaked by the LG from the side.
 
Originally posted by dolfan22
Sure Ogun benefits from playing alongside Jason Taylor on the defensive line. That is unquestioned.

However his sucess is not built on that , he is not a product of that. He had a monster year , not only rushing and sacking the QB , but also being stout against the run . He is twice the talent Mixon is.

It is a quandry , have him in the fold or get fair value..... BUT what a lot seem to neglect , so far we have not gotten anything tangible as an option let him go.

You can say , if you were a team that needed a DE , say a relatively young Pro Bowler , would you draft someone that could step right in and contribute with say the 30 th pick? Of course ..... how about the 22nd? probably..... the 13th? hmmmmm then throw in a third rounder as well?

I only want fair value , no less..... if not I will take a Pro Bowl DE and pair him with maybe the best DE in football and leave it at that and go get talent via another route.... Miami can't " settle " and I doubt they will with Speilman...........
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:) I must of been typing mines when you posted yours.

good post.;)
 
i wouldn't get rid of ogun in a million years
 
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