Longest tenured NFL coaches- Coach Mike McDaniel is 18th | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Longest tenured NFL coaches- Coach Mike McDaniel is 18th

Mach2 said:
Do you think I'm wrong? And it wasn't Bill that implemented it?

In any case, historical fact is pretty clear the innovation was made by others, is it not?
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I am of the opinion that Shula and Arnsparger both had a hand in the implementation of the nickel defense in the NFL.

I am also of the opinion that trying to parse which of the two had more of a hand in implementing it is a fool’s errand.
 
39wildman said:
I think he has done good job. Still need improve in certain area. Remember goal is to win or go to SB.
Just make SB. It been 40 yr.
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Goals are important, but finding satisfaction as your team overcomes adversity is really what it's all about.
 
AMakados10 said:
I like MM too but Flores went 19-14 in his two non-organizationally tanking seasons (2020-2021) and McDaniel has gone 20-14 in his two seasons (2022-2023).

The game difference is because the extra 17th game season didn't kick in until 2021.
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Flores was a tornedo of self-destruction.
 
The Goat said:
I am of the opinion that Shula and Arnsparger both had a hand in the implementation of the nickel defense in the NFL.

I am also of the opinion that trying to parse which of the two had more of a hand in implementing it is a fool’s errand.
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Respect your opinion.

I just saw what the defenses looked like after Bill left. For the most part, it wasn't pretty.

The discussion started with someone, don't remember who, suggesting Shula was scheme innovative.

He was in extremely good at teaching/coaching fundamentally sound, assignment responsible football, as well as making football smart decisions on game day. Innovative, though? Not seeing it.
 
If he makes the playoffs, you keep him until it becomes a Marvin Lewis type of thing.
 
AMakados10 said:
Edit - Interesting perception. I'd argue it's the reverse, or at least a wash, that McDaniel's coached one of the worst defenses and only in games because of the offense and Flores' offenses were "decent".

McDaniel's defenses in points per game ranked 24th in 2022 and 22nd in 2023. Flores' offense in points per game ranked 15th in 2020 and 22nd in 2021.
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The problem with Flores was that his success was directly tied to alot of takeaways, which isnt sustainable. His very bad offensive output put a very low ceiling on his teams. What he got was the actual best case scenario.

Mike's success is tied to a top passing attack and point scoring. Not only is it easier to replicate from year to year, the ceiling is much, much higher. 11-6 this year was a worse case scenario where 4 starting OL played less than 50% of snaps and they had to sign pass rushers off the street to finish the season.
 
Edit - Honestly, I didn’t know what the takeaway differences were under Flores vs McD so I looked it up.

Dolphins defense was near bottom of league in takeaways in 2022 but bounced back to same level as Flores in 2023.

2020 - 29
2021 - 26
2022 - 14
2023 - 27

If takeaways in the 26-29 range for Flores is not sustainable for success, what does that mean for McD’s 27 takeaways in 2023 regarding success and sustainability?
 
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AMakados10 said:
Edit - Honestly, I didn’t know what the takeaway differences were under Flores vs McD so I looked it up.

Dolphins defense was near bottom of league in takeaways in 2022 but bounced back to same level as Flores in 2023.

2020 - 29
2021 - 26
2022 - 14
2023 - 27

If takeaways in the 26-29 range for Flores is not sustainable for success, what does that mean for McD’s 27 takeaways in 2023 regarding success and sustainability?
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Scoring offense

Flores 2020- 15th
Flores 2021- 22nd
McDaniel 2022- 11th
McDaniel 2023- 2nd

YPA/Rating

Flores-2020- 23rd/19th
Flores-2021- 28th/23rd
McDaniel 2022- 1st/8th
McDaniel 2023- 2nd/4th

Looking at both regimes, which one you'd bet on winning a SB first?
 
NBP81 said:
Scoring offense

Flores 2020- 15th
Flores 2021- 22nd
McDaniel 2022- 11th
McDaniel 2023- 2nd

YPA/Rating

Flores-2020- 23rd/19th
Flores-2021- 28th/23rd
McDaniel 2022- 1st/8th
McDaniel 2023- 2nd/4th

Looking at both regimes, which one you'd bet on winning a SB first?
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Moving the goal posts? No worries.

If you’re asking whether I think a top offense (McD) or top defense (Flores) approach has a better chance of winning a SB first? Last 10 years is below with rankings by points scored or allowed.

Year Team Offense Rank / Defense Rank

2023 Chiefs 15 / 2
2022 Chiefs 1 / 16
2021 Rams 8 / 15
2020 Bucs 3 / 8
2019 Chiefs 5 / 7
2018 Pats 4 / 7
2017 Eagles 3 / 4
2016 Pats 3 / 1
2015 Broncos 19 / 4
2014 Pats 4 / 8

Average offense ranking is 6.5 and defense is 7.2. Philosophically, you are correct. Offense has the edge.

Problem is Flores had a season much closer to those averages than McD has. Flores went 10-6 In 2020 with the 11th ranked offense and 6th ranked defense. McD was 11 / 24 in 2022 and 2 / 22 in 2023.

I’m rooting on McD but he’s gotta get much better on defensive side of the ball to win a SB. To his credit, he’s churned DCs trying to get better.

Hopefully, McD rips off an amazing 2024 season and pulls away from Flores statically. I understand Flores is a boogeyman on these boards, so I’m done with this topic.
 
AMakados10 said:
Moving the goal posts? No worries.

If you’re asking whether I think a top offense (McD) or top defense (Flores) approach has a better chance of winning a SB first? Last 10 years is below with rankings by points scored or allowed.

Year Team Offense Rank / Defense Rank

2023 Chiefs 15 / 2
2022 Chiefs 1 / 16
2021 Rams 8 / 15
2020 Bucs 3 / 8
2019 Chiefs 5 / 7
2018 Pats 4 / 7
2017 Eagles 3 / 4
2016 Pats 3 / 1
2015 Broncos 19 / 4
2014 Pats 4 / 8

Average offense ranking is 6.5 and defense is 7.2. Philosophically, you are correct. Offense has the edge.

Problem is Flores had a season much closer to those averages than McD has. Flores went 10-6 In 2020 with the 11th ranked offense and 6th ranked defense. McD was 11 / 24 in 2022 and 2 / 22 in 2023.

I’m rooting on McD but he’s gotta get much better on defensive side of the ball to win a SB. To his credit, he’s churned DCs trying to get better.

Hopefully, McD rips off an amazing 2024 season and pulls away from Flores statically. I understand Flores is a boogeyman on these boards, so I’m done with this topic.
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Moving the goal posts? I didn't even realize this could be an argument...

I mean if you think you're going to consistently get a shot at deep run with a bottom of the barrel scoring offense and alot of takeaways... I hope you're done with this topic... Also hope you don't bet on sports with real money.

edit: just going to leave this here for reference...

2020 Fins TO ratio +9 -> 6th in scoring defense, with an average scoring offense
2021 Fins TO ratio 0 --> 15th in scoring defense, with a **** scoring offense.

#sustainable
 
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39wildman said:
I think he has done good job. Still need improve in certain area. Remember goal is to win or go to SB.
Just make SB. It been 40 yr.
He still had 2 good yr w dolphins.
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True.

I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes, but when it all came out, I realized he was "sinking his own ship" by putting his ego in the way of developing the team and some key players.

Flores actually did both - he won, then he went home.

Where is he now and what is he doing?
There-in lies the answer. - LOL
 
NBP81 said:
The problem with Flores was that his success was directly tied to alot of takeaways, which isnt sustainable. His very bad offensive output put a very low ceiling on his teams. What he got was the actual best case scenario.

Mike's success is tied to a top passing attack and point scoring. Not only is it easier to replicate from year to year, the ceiling is much, much higher. 11-6 this year was a worse case scenario where 4 starting OL played less than 50% of snaps and they had to sign pass rushers off the street to finish the season.
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With the talent he had, from the starting point he had, ( two years into a complete tear down) say what you want about the guy, he coached the **** out of that two year team.
 
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