Matt Hasselbeck sure looked good in the 989 QB Challenge!

[Coral Reefer]

Exactly, alot of Wanny apologists will now try to say its not Wanny's fault, but the fact is Spielman had the deal done for Hasselback and couldn't close it because he didn't have Wanny's blessing, allowing time for Holmgren to move in.

I remember all of that way to vividly....
alas all the QB problems could have been solved a few years ago.....
yet here we still are and hoping that AJ Feeley is the unknown that will unseat Fiedler.... :shakeno:

 

[4Dfins]

I'm kinda surprised and think they had to be throwing into a wind. In HS I could throw 63 and I'm sure that was not into a wind as I wouldnt have tried it then. I'd have to think that a Leftwich or a palmer could do the 65 with pretty quick release vs a skip and heave (me..lol). As for Jay, I think he can throw it around 40-43 max....maybe if he could generate a spiral he'd get an extra yard or two...lol

 

[inFINSible]

They were throwing into a strong wind and they were all doing the skip and heave.

 

[ckparrothead]

Jeff George and Daunt Culpepper can throw it more like 70 or 80 yards. I believe Kyle Boller threw it more than 50 yards, on his knees. When Randy Moss found out Daunte could throw it 80 yards he was like "Sheeit! Why don't you just throw it up 80 yards you know I'll beat whatever single, double, triple coverage they put on me if you give me that kind of distance"

The NFL has some pretty great arms to go with those crappy ones that belong to the likes of Jay Fiedler.

Anyway you people seem to have a funny recollection of the Hasselbeck trade. We HAD a deal, and the deal had Wannstedt's blessing. Wannstedt had given his blessing to the negotiations and the process from the very beginning. We lost out for one reason and one reason alone: the Packers preferred what the Seahawks had to offer. I recall the incident very well, and what happened is the Packers flat-out renegged on a deal they had already agreed to with us, and went with the Seahawks' offer, because they wanted a high pick. You ask Rick Spielman about that whole thing, and he won't tell you Wannstedt lost us the deal, he'll tell you that Mike Sherman and the Packers are a bunch of lying, scheming, indian-giving back stabbers. There was, and still is, bad blood over that trade. The Dolphins had negotiated a deal with the Pack, and the Pack had agreed to it, and instead of going through with the deal the Pack used the deal to get Holmgren to increase his offer, and then completely shut the door to the Dolphins on renegotiating because they had decided they wanted the high pick which the Phins couldn't offer.

 

[ckparrothead]

BTW the Dolphins got their revenge in the draft when the Packers selected Robert Ferguson, and we took Chris Chambers right from their own backyard :)

 

[rafael]

Arm strength isn't that important. And although the QB challenge isn't the same thing as NFL QBing, it does isolate some of the skills. I've been watching it for a long time and the winner is almost never the guy with the strongest arm. Marino was always among the worst at the long throw. Yet, he was usually among the top finishers (he also won it) and he didn't have a bad career either. JF can throw it as far as Hasselbeck and Bulger. He has missed on too many long passes, but it's not b/c he can't throw it far enough. JF's struggles are related to decison making. If JF made decisions like Montana then we wouldn't have any QB worries. It's not about arm strength people. Ask any offensive coach in the league and they'll tell you the same thing. Arm strength is way down the list of what a QB needs and all of the QBs on our roster have as much arm strength as they need.

 

[BlueFin]

Jeff George and Daunt Culpepper can throw it more like 70 or 80 yards. I believe Kyle Boller threw it more than 50 yards, on his knees. When Randy Moss found out Daunte could throw it 80 yards he was like "Sheeit! Why don't you just throw it up 80 yards you know I'll beat whatever single, double, triple coverage they put on me if you give me that kind of distance"

The NFL has some pretty great arms to go with those crappy ones that belong to the likes of Jay Fiedler.

Anyway you people seem to have a funny recollection of the Hasselbeck trade. We HAD a deal, and the deal had Wannstedt's blessing. Wannstedt had given his blessing to the negotiations and the process from the very beginning. We lost out for one reason and one reason alone: the Packers preferred what the Seahawks had to offer. I recall the incident very well, and what happened is the Packers flat-out renegged on a deal they had already agreed to with us, and went with the Seahawks' offer, because they wanted a high pick. You ask Rick Spielman about that whole thing, and he won't tell you Wannstedt lost us the deal, he'll tell you that Mike Sherman and the Packers are a bunch of lying, scheming, indian-giving back stabbers. There was, and still is, bad blood over that trade. The Dolphins had negotiated a deal with the Pack, and the Pack had agreed to it, and instead of going through with the deal the Pack used the deal to get Holmgren to increase his offer, and then completely shut the door to the Dolphins on renegotiating because they had decided they wanted the high pick which the Phins couldn't offer.

Not the way I remember it, had Spielman had authority the deal would have been done, in the time it took for Spielman to get Wannys ok Seattle entered the picture where they had not previously been, Green Bay had already Ok'ed our deal and us pulling the trigger was all that it lacked, it was the time delay that cost us, of course I knew the Wanny apologists would come out.

 

[gottahavefootba]

Arm strength isn't that important. And although the QB challenge isn't the same thing as NFL QBing, it does isolate some of the skills. I've been watching it for a long time and the winner is almost never the guy with the strongest arm. Marino was always among the worst at the long throw. Yet, he was usually among the top finishers (he also won it) and he didn't have a bad career either. JF can throw it as far as Hasselbeck and Bulger. He has missed on too many long passes, but it's not b/c he can't throw it far enough. JF's struggles are related to decison making. If JF made decisions like Montana then we wouldn't have any QB worries. It's not about arm strength people. Ask any offensive coach in the league and they'll tell you the same thing. Arm strength is way down the list of what a QB needs and all of the QBs on our roster have as much arm strength as they need.

What Fiedler is lacking is accuracy over 15 yards. It doesn't matter how far you can throw it if you can't hit a guy in stride. This is one of the things that made marino so good (and helped him win those competitions) was he could hit a guy running full speed 40 yards down the field right in stride. How many times have we watched fielder under or over throw chambers that had his guy beat for 5 yards? It wasn't a bad decision to throw to him, it was inacuracy that caused the problem.

I would rate accuracy as the single most important, then decision making then arm strength.

 

[ckparrothead]

Not the way I remember it, had Spielman had authority the deal would have been done, in the time it took for Spielman to get Wannys ok Seattle entered the picture where they had not previously been, Green Bay had already Ok'ed our deal and us pulling the trigger was all that it lacked, it was the time delay that cost us, of course I knew the Wanny apologists would come out.

I could say the same about the Wannstedt haters, and in fact, I probably did predict that in a few years Wanny haters would skew the events into somehow being Wannstedt's fault.

What you say happened, that is not how it was reported to happen at the time. I won't claim to have any insider behind-the-scenes knowledge of the events, and I won't deny that you could possess such insider knowledge, but I do know what was reported at the time...and what was reported at the time had nothing to do with waiting for the "ok" from Wannstedt, and everything to do with waiting for Green Bay to go ahead and put their names on the dotted line after we'd reached a verbal agreement, and Mike Holmgren had jumped into the fray late in the game, waved around that high draft pick, and voila...renegged agreement. The Packers had been hoping they could parlay Miami's interest in Hasselbeck into an increased offer from the guy they knew was most interested in Hasselbeck all along (Holmgren) and finally during the 11th hour, their prediction came true, and Miami's interest had goaded Holmgren into giving up what the Pack wanted.

At no point during the reporting do I remember hearing any mention of Miami awaiting a final decision by Dave Wannstedt on the matter, and getting Hasselbeck stolen from us because of Wannstedt's hesitation. That never entered the picture, but I could easily have predicted at the time that years from then Wannstedt haters would skew it that way.

I bear no love for Wannstedt but I get tired of people criticizing him for all the WRONG reasons and never hitting on all the right reasons. He's not a natural leader and never has been. Give him credit where he is due, and criticize him where he deserves it, but there's no point blindly criticizing Dave Wannstedt for everything that has ever gone wrong with this franchise because in the end, it only helps Dave's case by making it look like Miami fans are dumb, ignorant, high-demand, high-expectation, etc.

 

[dreday]

Arm strength isn't that important. And although the QB challenge isn't the same thing as NFL QBing, it does isolate some of the skills. I've been watching it for a long time and the winner is almost never the guy with the strongest arm. Marino was always among the worst at the long throw. Yet, he was usually among the top finishers (he also won it) and he didn't have a bad career either. JF can throw it as far as Hasselbeck and Bulger. He has missed on too many long passes, but it's not b/c he can't throw it far enough. JF's struggles are related to decison making. If JF made decisions like Montana then we wouldn't have any QB worries. It's not about arm strength people. Ask any offensive coach in the league and they'll tell you the same thing. Arm strength is way down the list of what a QB needs and all of the QBs on our roster have as much arm strength as they need.

well said rafael...

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

At no point during the reporting do I remember hearing any mention of Miami awaiting a final decision by Dave Wannstedt on the matter, and getting Hasselbeck stolen from us because of Wannstedt's hesitation. That never entered the picture, but I could easily have predicted at the time that years from then Wannstedt haters would skew it that way.

I did hear reporting of that kind. It wasn't more of Wansteadt's hesitation. It was in the process of getting his OK that the Packers came in and swooped up Matt. If Spielman had the final say at the time, Hassleback would be a Dolphin.

 

[ckparrothead]

As an interesting aside...in light of the criticism of the AJ Feeley trade...

Does anyone else find this sudden discussion of the Hasselbeck trade a little ironic? When Hasselbeck was traded for, for a first round equivalent mind you, he had logged barely any professional playing time...and I seem to remember MOST dolphins fans actually breathing a sigh of RELIEF when we narrowly missed out on Hasselbeck.

How quickly the fans lose faith. Similar situation with Feeley. He came in during a high pressure situation and delivered. Much like Green Bay, Philadelphia is also known for having good backup QB situations as far as coaching their guys and teaching them (Brad Childress in particular). Similar to Hasselbeck, Feeley is a guy that Ron Wolf liked. And not for nothin but, isn't this the first year Hasselbeck has really paid off?

I just find it ironic that in the wake of the Hasselbeck thing and during Hasselbeck's struggles, Wannstedt haters used it as an example of Dave trying hard but narrowly missing out on wasting a 1st rounder for a guy who sucks...and now that Hasselbeck's fortunes have reversed a bit, its being twisted into Wannstedt is the reason we don't have Hasselbeck.

I don't know man, I just tend to think the NFL is so fickle, its possible next season we might be thankful we didn't get the opportunity to pull the trigger on Hasselbeck...and then Drew Brees will beat out Rivers for the start in 2004 and do really well, and we'll all start lamenting how we didn't take Drew Brees and of course that will be laid at Dave's feet.

Its funny, after Drew's one game he played in 2001 and the first half of 2002, simultaneous to Hasselbeck's struggling through that time period, everyone was like...man we should have gotten Brees! Thank god we didn't get Hasselbeck dumb Wanny trying to pick up a piece of garbage like him for a 1st rounder...then its like, Drew Brees starts sucking...Hasselbeck starts doing better, and now people are trying to blame Wannstedt for not pulling the trigger on Hasselbeck?

 

[ckparrothead]

I did hear reporting of that kind. It wasn't more of Wansteadt's hesitation. It was in the process of getting his OK that the Packers came in and swooped up Matt. If Spielman had the final say at the time, Hassleback would be a Dolphin.

That certainly isn't what I heard reported at the time. I heard they came to a general agreement in place, that Wannstedt had blessed it, and they were hashing out paperwork when Holmgren came through with a better offer. Then Miami got stonewalled.

 

[phunwin]

What you say happened, that is not how it was reported to happen at the time. I won't claim to have any insider behind-the-scenes knowledge of the events, and I won't deny that you could possess such insider knowledge, but I do know what was reported at the time...and what was reported at the time had nothing to do with waiting for the "ok" from Wannstedt, and everything to do with waiting for Green Bay to go ahead and put their names on the dotted line after we'd reached a verbal agreement, and Mike Holmgren had jumped into the fray late in the game, waved around that high draft pick, and voila...renegged agreement. The Packers had been hoping they could parlay Miami's interest in Hasselbeck into an increased offer from the guy they knew was most interested in Hasselbeck all along (Holmgren) and finally during the 11th hour, their prediction came true, and Miami's interest had goaded Holmgren into giving up what the Pack wanted.

At no point during the reporting do I remember hearing any mention of Miami awaiting a final decision by Dave Wannstedt on the matter, and getting Hasselbeck stolen from us because of Wannstedt's hesitation. That never entered the picture, but I could easily have predicted at the time that years from then Wannstedt haters would skew it that way.

Notable is this little factoid: the Packers used that coveted high pick to draft the one and only Jamal Reynolds. I don't know who they would have taken with our pick, but I can almost guarantee they would have been more valuable. Karma's a b***h that way.

 

[phunwin]

As an interesting aside...in light of the criticism of the AJ Feeley trade...

Does anyone else find this sudden discussion of the Hasselbeck trade a little ironic? When Hasselbeck was traded for, for a first round equivalent mind you, he had logged barely any professional playing time...and I seem to remember MOST dolphins fans actually breathing a sigh of RELIEF when we narrowly missed out on Hasselbeck.

How quickly the fans lose faith. Similar situation with Feeley. He came in during a high pressure situation and delivered. Much like Green Bay, Philadelphia is also known for having good backup QB situations as far as coaching their guys and teaching them (Brad Childress in particular). Similar to Hasselbeck, Feeley is a guy that Ron Wolf liked. And not for nothin but, isn't this the first year Hasselbeck has really paid off?

I just find it ironic that in the wake of the Hasselbeck thing and during Hasselbeck's struggles, Wannstedt haters used it as an example of Dave trying hard but narrowly missing out on wasting a 1st rounder for a guy who sucks...and now that Hasselbeck's fortunes have reversed a bit, its being twisted into Wannstedt is the reason we don't have Hasselbeck.

I don't know man, I just tend to think the NFL is so fickle, its possible next season we might be thankful we didn't get the opportunity to pull the trigger on Hasselbeck...and then Drew Brees will beat out Rivers for the start in 2004 and do really well, and we'll all start lamenting how we didn't take Drew Brees and of course that will be laid at Dave's feet.

Its funny, after Drew's one game he played in 2001 and the first half of 2002, simultaneous to Hasselbeck's struggling through that time period, everyone was like...man we should have gotten Brees! Thank god we didn't get Hasselbeck dumb Wanny trying to pick up a piece of garbage like him for a 1st rounder...then its like, Drew Brees starts sucking...Hasselbeck starts doing better, and now people are trying to blame Wannstedt for not pulling the trigger on Hasselbeck?

EXCELLENT point CK!