Merged: additional coaching thoughts.../Kotite/Sean Payton I WANT HIM! | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: additional coaching thoughts.../Kotite/Sean Payton I WANT HIM!

phins_4_ever

E12 FH Tailgate Gang
Joined
Jan 9, 2002
Messages
30,853
Reaction score
13,007
Location
S Florida/Dolphins Nation
additional coaching thoughts...

I am reading, listening to opinions on coaching and how we have to replace Wannstedt.

You are going to replace a coach which essentially went 11-5, 11-5, 9-7 and possibly 11-5 again. I can give you a dozen coaches who can give you 10-12 wins per seson.
People fail to realize that we are not a 4-12 team. If you go sub .500 it is easy to be happy to be a 9-7 team the next year under a new coaching staff. But if we go 11-5 again this year, we fire Wannstedt how many will be satisfied next year to be 9-7 or 10-6 again?

Were we outcoached in NE? If we were outcoached on offense then we must give credit to Dave for outcoaching NE on defense because the last time I checked we held NE to 3 points and made their offense look pretty much as inefficient as NE made ours look.
What if Randy blocks and Jay either throws or runs for a 1st down? What if we scored a TD on that drive?

I have seen many coaching suggestions in the last few days and as much as I bitched about Dave I looked and I can not find who would be an alternative to what we have right now.

The only coach who would make a difference would be a "gruden" type of coach who carries the same team with emotions to a superbowl. But that is never a gurantee nor is there any coaches available I see fit to do that task.

Now let's look at the season for a minute. We are 8-5. Whose fault? Jay throws an INT (regardless if that is the WR's or QB's fault) against Houston which gives the Texans the winning FG. NE: while Dave became suddenly conservative we still could have kicked a FG twice...our 2 million dollar kicker just failed us. Indy: did Dave or Norv fumble on the Indy 15 yard line or did they miss the blocking assignment or did they interfere with their own left tackle to make matters worse? NE again: Did they miss the block which led to a sack and funble by Jay?
TN: you can argue but if our offense would not have fumbled or INT'd the game away we could have been in it as well.

So, out of the 5 losses 4 were based on one or two plays in each game. If we make those plays and we would be sitting at 12-1 right now Dave is the hero. But it essentially comes down to players making one or two more plays.

I like for Wannstedt to make many decisions better but most of his coaching mistakes did not cost us games. In every single game we were put into position to win.

Now, what coach out there would give us a 12, 13, 14, 15 or 16 game regular season...because this is the bar we all are setting.
 
I agree, I would fire wanny if we can get somebody who is clearly better, the only attractive candidates (no college guys please) I see are Gary Kubiak and Jim Mora Jr. Kubiak has a suspect career because their was a book that came out about the first denver super bowl run that said that Shanahan thought Kubiak was a horrible play caller but a great designer of plays and a good technique guy. Mora Jr. is a defensive coach and you just know that he would tinker with our defense and I would not touch a thing on our D.

The pickings are slim at head coach.
 
I hate to agree and disagree.

It is not a coaches fault how the players make plays... but..

If I were to replace ANYONE on this team it would be...

Norv Turner.

Can anyone say open up the offense Norv? Mike Martz has an excellent offense because it is not predictable. And please don't make the arguement that Bulger is this great QB, although he has two damn good WR, and won when Marshall was out.

Look at what Baltimore has done with that Rag Tag Offense the past two weeks :)

Open up and use what you have. Bench those who can't catch, or block.

Just my pennies.
 
Originally posted by Emskirch
I hate to agree and disagree.

It is not a coaches fault how the players make plays... but..

If I were to replace ANYONE on this team it would be...

Norv Turner.

Can anyone say open up the offense Norv? Mike Martz has an excellent offense because it is not predictable. And please don't make the arguement that Bulger is this great QB, although he has two damn good WR, and won when Marshall was out.

Look at what Baltimore has done with that Rag Tag Offense the past two weeks :)

Open up and use what you have. Bench those who can't catch, or block.

Just my pennies.

I agree...I am not sold on our coaching staff. I bitched just as much as everybody else BUT...sitting back and thinking about it. Who is really out there?

And I agree on Norv. What I do not understand is why open it up in one game and become ultra-conservative the next game. I do understand though that the flat was taking away by the Pats by playing their LBs wide. Which of course is a big part of our offense.

Blocking is another thing. If you can fault Wannstedt for anything it is the fact the he put more faith into Dixon being healthy than anybody else. Wade Smith is a rookie after all. It takes a year or two to become a good OL player in the NFL. Benching Smith? And bring in a 3rd stringer? Bench McMichael for missing that block? Ouchy......can't really do that.
 
i know this will raise eyebrows but what about bringing back jimmy johnson.there will be no ego battle there between him and dan! marino is gone maybe jj would fit now? he sure as hell can evaluate talent!
 
It all comes down to this: what do you WANT from this team?
If you want perpetual mediocrity, where we sail along just below the elite teams, always good but never great, then keep Wannstedt.
If you want to win a Superbowl, he's got to be replaced. It's that simple. No Dave Wannstedt coached team will win a Superbowl.
 
Originally posted by Emskirch
Can anyone say open up the offense Norv? Mike Martz has an excellent offense because it is not predictable. And please don't make the arguement that Bulger is this great QB, although he has two damn good WR, and won when Marshall was out.

Look at what Baltimore has done with that Rag Tag Offense the past two weeks :)

Open up and use what you have. Bench those who can't catch, or block.

Just my pennies.

I see your point, but have to point out that both St. Louis & Baltimore have excellent lines. Yes each has a weakness, but the difference is, we have weaknesses at all 5 positions on our line!

Normally if you have someone stuggling then you give them help, well unless we run a 1 WR, 2 TE formation and keep both backs in to help that ain't happening.

I agree with what the spirit of this thread is, but think that regardless of the results sometimes a change is the very thing that is needed to push a team over the top.

IMO, DW is a good coach. But you have to look at x's & o's. From day one he has talked about upgrading the offense, but has always signed defensive studs and offensive has beens. His trade for RW and attempt at Kruetz were the exceptions.

Another point, Dave will always gamble with his defense but never does with the offense. The difference is obvious but the fact remains how many times over the years have we seen him punt to put the game back into the d's hands as opposed to trying to gain that extra yard. When he has, it always the same type play, either Jay on a sneak or RW into the middle.

IMO his lack of confidence shows on the field and undoes all the cheering he does for them in the press.

There is no doubt in my mind that I would bank on this d over the O, but the difference would be that I would at the very least make the offensive players start worrying about being replaced if their play doesn't improve.

IMO, this rotation crap at OG & C is BS. A line needs to play together to Jell, shuttling players in just creates confusion. If Jamie isn't cutting it then plant him on the bench. Same for Ruddy.

That my friends is in IMO the reason that the dolphins are in this situation. The Coach is not decisive enough. He doesn't follow through. What he says and what he does don't equal!
 
I ultimately place all the blame on Wayne H

He should be paying closer attention to the trends of the NFL, becasue the Head Coach/GM (whether partime or fulltime GM) isn't cutting it anymore.

No wanny didn't miss those field goals nor did wanny throw those int's but to not place any blame on him, is simply ignoring the obvious. Wanny fired one of the best special teams coaches in the nfl and brought in his friend. What happens??? Uhh well, the special teams have declined since Westhoff's departure and Olindo Mare's production has declined. Coincidence? maybe but I don't think so. I for one loved the Norv Turner pickup, because it seemed like a great addition at the time, but hey guees what, we were 11-5 both years under Chan Gailey, with less offensive talent. It's sad to think what our record would have been if he didn't leave for another coaching job. Is it wanny's fault he left? no, but it's disturbing how there is no checks and balances when it comes to Wanny hiring coaching staff. If anything it seems like nepotism to me. And we all know that sometimes hiring your friends and family isn't always a great idea. Hindsight is 20/20 and no one could've seen the poor job NT would do here.

When Mike Shula left, did he replace him with at least another QB coach? No. I've been saying this all year, that Mike Shula's departure had an adverse affect on JF. Well it has been proven. JF said it himself, "While on the bench, I got a chance to watch BG play against SD and how he has a quick release", " I rewatched some of my tape and noticed that the point of my delivery was too low..yada yada yada fundamentals" Hey JF is a grown man, but even professionals need good coaches to help them with the fundamentals because players tend to get into habitual patterns some good and some bad. NT doesn't have the time to focus on the details of JF mechanics he's running the offense.

So my point is yes Wanny deserves some of the blame because some of his personnel decisions has had a negative affect on this team. Is he a bad coach? no. I just think he would be better off being a defensive coordinator or having less power to make administrative decisions. Is there a better coach out there? probably, but they will probably falter here as well if WH doesn't one, make Speilman the GM and give him the autonomy to hire and fire a coach or two, try to lure a savvy GM away from another team, like Rich Mckay. Either way, it's become obvious that when coaching staffs are spread thin, some aspects will suffer, anbd when it's your special teams and QB, hell you're in deep doo doo.
 
Yes, I agree that the coaches are not on the field. HOWEVER, I think that the coaches should be held somewhat responsible for the losses. Lets face it the teams that are prepared do NOT make the critical 'one or two plays' that lose a game. I can't remember the last time I saw NE make a critical mistake that lost them a game.

Ever since Wanny fired Westoff and hired 'his buddy' to coach special teams, Mare has gone from the most accurate fg kicker in the NFL, to a VERY AVERAGE one. Maybe it is just a coincidence, but I dont' believe that. As was noted above Jay changed his fundamentals when watching Griese, something that a coach should notice...

It just always seems like there is something like this. Enough. Maybe we can't find a better coach, but it is time for a change. Fresh blood can only help this team.
 
re: Mare's decline

Coincides with the loss of Doug Blevins - kicking coach. He left because he wanted to work as a contract consultant.

Westhoff was undermining the HC's authority with s/a comments. Loss of a talent, for sure, but any of you would have done the same thing in that situation.
 
I want Charlie Weiss from NE. He would be my #1 guy. Also, guys, Coaches DO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. Look at all the evidence......Gruden+Bucs, Bellicheck+Pats, Parcells+Cowboys, Fox+Carolina, Holmgren+seattle, Etc...........
 
Why was he undermining Wanny?

Originally posted by Agua
re: Mare's decline

Coincides with the loss of Doug Blevins - kicking coach. He left because he wanted to work as a contract consultant.

Westhoff was undermining the HC's authority with s/a comments. Loss of a talent, for sure, but any of you would have done the same thing in that situation.

hmm.. maybe because he chose to neglect getting a game breaking kick returner or was it because not enough emphasis was placed on special teams. I forget the reason why, but when he leaves us and goes to a division rival, who've returned countless kickoff and punt returns for tds or great Field Position. You got to question that situation. Again with the Doug Blevins situation, if a assnt coach leaves and it has an adverse affect on one of you're star players, umm well it's time to get a new/better assnt coach especially if his replacement has only showed regression. Bottom line is Wanny's replacements have not made the team better, irregaurdless of why the previous asst coaches left, it's wanny's job to find adequete replacements. HE HASN'T.

I like Dave, I think he deserves a lot more credit than he gets, but I also think he's in way over his head, otherwise he'd be firing assnt coaches who've been giving plenty of opps to right the ship but havent, benching underacheiving players, and fining his star players for making assinine penalties.
 
Sean Payton I WANT HIM!

We need an innovative coach who knows how to get the best out of the talent he has. Look how the Giant offense performed under him in 2002. Look how he used Shockey. Do you notice how Collins had his best seasons under Payton? Funny how Dallas has done much better than expected on offense considering that they have Hambrick, Glenn and Q.Carter.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/team_coach_sean_payton.cfm

http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/interviews/interview0028.htm

"So, we'll build our offense around our talent. It's an ongoing change and things are constantly changing because you want to keep up with what defenses are doing."

Could a bright offensive mind actually make good use out of Chambers, McMichael and Konrad. How about using Ricky in the passing game? Coaches often say these types of things, but Payton's offenses have produced.
 
I'd like to know a little bit more about what happened up there in NY. Fassel supposedly took away his playcalling duties....and the team improved. But I've also heard that he was made a scapegoat. I guess I'll do some looking. Maybe those links you gave talk about it. But I'm at work. :)
 
Originally posted by Rick 1966
It all comes down to this: what do you WANT from this team?
If you want perpetual mediocrity, where we sail along just below the elite teams, always good but never great, then keep Wannstedt.
If you want to win a Superbowl, he's got to be replaced. It's that simple. No Dave Wannstedt coached team will win a Superbowl.

OK. Replaced by who?

I want a name who has shown in the past that he can take the team beyond the 11 win marker. Don't give me one-year wonders either.

I be waiting for your suggestions.
 
Back
Top Bottom