Merged: Art Shell for President, Saban's Miami Coaching Staff, etc | Page 14 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: Art Shell for President, Saban's Miami Coaching Staff, etc

KB21 said:
Yes.

Let's start with some from the past:

Sid Gillman
Don Coryell
Chuck Fairbanks
Bill Walsh
Dick Vermeil

Some that are more recent

Jimmy Johnson
Dennis Green
Bobby Ross
Tom Coughlin
Steve Marriuci

Barry Switzer wasn't exactly a failure either. He did take over a team with the talent Jimmy acquired, but he still won a Superbowl and had winning records. Even though Switzer was a stooge for Jerry Jones, I believe even he grew tired of Jones's act.

When you look at the college coaches that failed, outside of Butch Davis, all of them were career college coaches that had no NFL experience. Guys like Lou Holtz, Dennis Erickson, and Mike Riley. I think people should consider the situation Butch went into as well. He took over a team that was lacking talent pretty much everywhere, and the biggest mistake he made was that he hired his Miami buddy Pete Garcia to run the front office instead of getting a qualified NFL guy. Nick Saban won't make that mistake.

Looking at the college to NFL head coaches that were hired in the 90s (counting Jimmy, who was hired in '89)

Johnson has two Superbowl Championships. Green took his Vikings team to the NFC Championship. Bobby Ross took the Chargers to the Superbowl. Switzer has a Superbowl Championship. Marriuci took the 49ers to the playoffs in all but 2 of his seasons there. Coughlin took the Jaguars to the AFC Championship. There is a lot of success between those 6 coaches, and I'll bet that if you looked at the statistics of the coordinators/assistants that were promoted, you will find that their success rate is not 60% like the college to NFL head coach's.
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A lot of college coaches have been successful in the pros. HOWEVER, it is RARE (not impossible) for a college coach to come in and win in his first HC job in the nfl. MOST fail in the first job. Go back to college or be an assitant some where for a while and then come back and do well. Even Bellichek did not do well in his first job with Cleveland.

More recent college coaches to mention are Butch Davis, Spurrier, Dennis Erickson. NONE of those guys were successful. I like Saban, just don't think he will help the Phins. The next job he has he will be fine.

I hope I am wrong, but I still would rather have a good OC to come in. Here's hoping that I am wrong. GO PHINS.
 
The NFL WANTS this guy to come to Miami. They wouldn't have sent Art Shell down here if they didn't. It's his shot. They won't take being spurned by this guy lightly.
 
Isn't anyone considering that being GM and HC doesn't translate into SB's?

Has everyone forgotten that nearly every HC/GM has seen recent failure and have been stripped of GM duties. Very few remain.

And, it appears we have learned nothing from our own mistakes. It's amazing how a new face and a "hot" name makes us think THIS IS THE GUY.

In regards to the good tidings spread by other coaches about Saban.... what would you expect his fellow friends and SUPPORTERS to say about him? "Nick is the worst coach I've seen. He'll destroy a franchise in 3 years flat. He shouldn't be hired!"

Give me a break.

The fact remains, he is an UNPROVEN NFL COACH AND GM. So, fans want solice in knowing they've chosen "the right guy".

"He's the hottest name. He has to be the guy."

"Everyone speaks well of him, he has to be the guy."

Wanny is the darling of the media. Has been ever since he became HC. And what did that get us?

Being a respected COLLEGE HC with FRIENDS doesn't mean you are a GREAT HC and GM.

It's the equivalent of asking a manager of McDonald's to be the CEO of Nabisco. Sure, he's managed a business before, but your local McDonald's isn't quite Nabisco.

I honestly do not know if it's arrogance or stupidity that makes fans embrace the idea of Saban being a successful HC AND GM. Not too mention, you award this same man with one of the higher paid salaries in the league.

This is insanity.

Three years from now when the players no longer take to his authoritarian ways, we've endured a few bad seasons during our "rebuilding" and he hasn't had successful drafts, some GENIOUS we start a post that Saban is the reincarnation of Wanny.

Do we not have enough foresight to predict this now?

And for all the "supporters" who use previously successful "college" coaches as foundation for the arguments, let me ask you:

LEGEND: "Modern Era" = Salary Cap AND Free Agency

1) How many college coaches have been successful as COACHES (only) in the Modern Era?

2) How many have been successful Coach AND GM during the Modern Era?

3) How many have won Super Bowls as Coach AND GM during the Modern Era?

and finally,

4) How many have FAILED as Coach AND GM during the Modern Era?

Jimmy Johnson DID NOT win a Super Bowl during the MODERN ERA. And, he had the benefit of years of experience at Dallas BEFORE he came to Miami. Yet, he still failed.

Coaches who have been in the college ranks for extended periods of time RARELY become successful COACHES in the NFL Modern Era. Adding the GM role is a recipe for disaster.

If you guys feel THIS is a GOOD move, I invite you to join my "I told you so" threads 3 years from now.

THIS is INSANITY.
 
Agua, That is just political correct talk for the media. Saban doesn't have to go over the contract. I'm sure he has excepted the offer but he is just getting things straight at LSU before he makes it public. I really think he respects LSU and what the people here have done for him just like we thank him for what he has brought to LSU. I mean to win a MNC at LSU in 4 years was an increidable feat. LSU was in HORRIBLE shape when Saban arrived. He brought winning attitudes and changed the whole community not just the football team. He can come across as an a$$ alot of time but he is a winner. He would be a fool not to for what the Dolphins are giving him. He would never get another offer like this again. Congrats on the new coach Dolphins in the Superbowl 2007!!!
 
ohall said:
Yup, I just think they are hammering out all the lil final details. Doesn't the NFL have to see the contract and approve it as well? I'm certain there are legal hurdles that they have to jump over before they can announce Saban is the HC for the Miami Dolphins. Plus it is only 8:33 there right now right?
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NFL has to approve the contract, not an offer and acceptance.
 
PhinKev said:
There are a handful of guys whose posts I look for to read. You are one of them Boomer. Thanks.
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Me too. Any time I see a thread or post from Boomer, I always read them.

Thanks for the posts Boomer.
 
Shula is one of the top 5 coaches of all time. If he thinks Saban is a good coach thats enough for me.
 
This is all I expect outta WH. He is the same guy that blamed Mare for the missed FG's against the Pats kicking off the infield dirt that is equal to kicking off a New York sidewalk. This is all I wanna hear from him. The next thing I wanna hear from him is at a press conference announcing Saban as HC.
 
Boomer..Thanks for the great info and reports.Regardless of any fire you take from anyone who doubts your credentials,your reports have been the most detailed and logical I`ve seen on the entire net.Thanks and Kudos..just hope theyre accurate,for our coaching situations sake ;)

Anyways,I posted your info on another site..hope you dont mind..if you do,I`ll delete them and offer an apology.


Thanks again.
 
finsnchips said:
I agree. i think he knows that Miami would be the right career move, but he's also got an obligation to his family.

He has a cosy job at LSU where he is loved by fans (and has a fat contract), his family love baton rouge, etc. Some things are more important in life..

I believe (hope) he'll come to miami tho.
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If the reports of stsock ownership being involved are true, you can take it to the bank hes coming, no one would turn that down.
 
NathanHunt said:
Isn't anyone considering that being GM and HC doesn't translate into SB's?

Has everyone forgotten that nearly every HC/GM has seen recent failure and have been stripped of GM duties. Very few remain.

And, it appears we have learned nothing from our own mistakes. It's amazing how a new face and a "hot" name makes us think THIS IS THE GUY.

In regards to the good tidings spread by other coaches about Saban.... what would you expect his fellow friends and SUPPORTERS to say about him? "Nick is the worst coach I've seen. He'll destroy a franchise in 3 years flat. He shouldn't be hired!"

Give me a break.

The fact remains, he is an UNPROVEN NFL COACH AND GM. So, fans want solice in knowing they've chosen "the right guy".

"He's the hottest name. He has to be the guy."

"Everyone speaks well of him, he has to be the guy."

Wanny is the darling of the media. Has been ever since he became HC. And what did that get us?

Being a respected COLLEGE HC with FRIENDS doesn't mean you are a GREAT HC and GM.

It's the equivalent of asking a manager of McDonald's to be the CEO of Nabisco. Sure, he's managed a business before, but your local McDonald's isn't quite Nabisco.

I honestly do not know if it's arrogance or stupidity that makes fans embrace the idea of Saban being a successful HC AND GM. Not too mention, you award this same man with one of the higher paid salaries in the league.

This is insanity.

Three years from now when the players no longer take to his authoritarian ways, we've endured a few bad seasons during our "rebuilding" and he hasn't had successful drafts, some GENIOUS we start a post that Saban is the reincarnation of Wanny.

Do we not have enough foresight to predict this now?

And for all the "supporters" who use previously successful "college" coaches as foundation for the arguments, let me ask you:

LEGEND: "Modern Era" = Salary Cap AND Free Agency

1) How many college coaches have been successful as COACHES (only) in the Modern Era?

2) How many have been successful Coach AND GM during the Modern Era?

3) How many have won Super Bowls as Coach AND GM during the Modern Era?

and finally,

4) How many have FAILED as Coach AND GM during the Modern Era?

Jimmy Johnson DID NOT win a Super Bowl during the MODERN ERA. And, he had the benefit of years of experience at Dallas BEFORE he came to Miami. Yet, he still failed.

Coaches who have been in the college ranks for extended periods of time RARELY become successful COACHES in the NFL Modern Era. Adding the GM role is a recipe for disaster.

If you guys feel THIS is a GOOD move, I invite you to join my "I told you so" threads 3 years from now.

THIS is INSANITY.
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And we invite you to not hide and actually show up and join my "Dolphins win Third Superbowl Thread", in fact you can even say you were behind Saban the whole way if you want, we don't care.
 
BlueFin said:
And we invite you to not hide and actually show up and join my "Dolphins win Third Superbowl Thread", in fact you can even say you were behind Saban the whole way if you want, we don't care.
Click to expand...

I'll be there with Bells On! :D
 
NathanHunt said:
Isn't anyone considering that being GM and HC doesn't translate into SB's?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but you've never heard of the New England Patriots, have you? Saban won't be the GM, he'd just have the final say over most/all decisions. Do you know who else in the NFL has this role? Bill Bellicheck, a guy who has won 2 Super Bowls in the last 3 seasons.

THAT is insanity.
 
Well, Nathan, why don't you supply for us when you believe the "modern era" began?

Let's see.. Shanahan won two SBs, Belichek won two SBs, and Jon Gruden won one SB.

That's five. When did the "modern era" begin? 1997 after Switzer's Superbowl win? That means there were a total of EIGHT Superbowls since then.

Of them, FIVE were won by Coaches who had Absolute Power and Final Say over all decisions.

Huh, I'm not good in math, but it seems to me that 5/8 makes a rather nice percentage and certainly represents a majority.

Even if you want to argue Gruden really did have Final Say until after he won the SB (Which would be wrong, McKay was continually overriden by Gruden which is why he's now in Atlanta), that's still 4/8 which is HALF.

So the answer to your question is that at a bare minimum, HALF of all Superbowls of the modern era were won by coaches who had Final Say.

Does that make you feel better, or was your purpose not to actually get the FACTS, but to rather argue against Saban because you have some emotional investment in Bates/Speilman/Feeley/The Water Boy/whomever?
 
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