Merged: Two players to speak against Incognito? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: Two players to speak against Incognito?

thenewloon said:
what? what exactly can Incognito expose if they don't pay? Not sure you know what extortion means...is he gonna break their knee caps with a baseball bat if they don't pay? Sorry but Incognito has no power to do anything to these guys other than not like them...NFL rookies have told vets to screw off MANY times in the past when they've been given bills for dinners and trips...Dez Bryant is a prime example of a player that refused to participate in any form of rookie hazing
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Physical violence, humiliation, expose drug use, expose suicide attempts, or expose other possibly career-threatening or humiliating issues that have already been hinted at. The list of possible threats is long, and just because some of those may be illegal or unsavory doesn't make it any less of extortion.

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 PM ----------
HoneyB said:
You're mixing up the meanings. Extortion by the mafia for protection money, and blackmail by a third party who seeks financial gain from specific knowledge about something, is similar but not the same thing.

Extortion is extortion, blackmail is blackmail. Not bullying, in the traditional sense. Again, my point is, Martin may have been bullied, or felt bullied, but the fact that he gave players money for a pre-planned trip, is not part of the bullying, imo, but a separate issue.
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Blackmail is a form of extortion, but dear god man, extortion isn't limited to the mafia. I just gave you several examples of extortion. Stop watching so many movies. Do you believe he gave them that much money for a trip he wasn't going on out of the kindness of his heart? :lol: :bobdole:
 
Gonzo said:
I don't know what he tried to do. All I know is what he DID do. However, if he tried all channels and got shutdown by all of them, then we have a far bigger problem than initially thought. If he went through the Phins hierarchy, the NFLPA, and the NFL itself to no avail; then the whole system is ****ed. I don't have any reason to believe he did though, because all of the above seem completely caught off guard by it all.

I think he handled it unprofessionally AND I think Incognito is a dirtbag. I'm not on Team Martin or Team Incognito. I'm on Team Dolphins Fan, and these two douchebags have ****ed up not only my season, but all of the players on the team who had absolutely nothing to do with it, and I believe that is quite a few.
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this goes a bit deeper because our players don't care. Next season martin, icognito, and the 2 whistleblowers could be with other teams. Thus leaving the problems behind in a different city. I will still be here. I will still be on the edge of my seat every sunday watching the miami dolphins. While the people that caused this problem get to move on to greener pastures. Much like in ncaa when a school gets caught for recruiting violatins then the coach gets fired and moves on to another team. The kids that didn't have anything to do with the violations have to live under the sanctions. while the guys that actually caused the violations are free and clear to seek employment elsewhere.
 
Gonzo said:
You live in fantasy land and were either home schooled or didn't hang out with large groups of "friends" in school. It absolutely does happen, and quite often.
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Again, the example I was given, is that a larger boy picks on a weaker boy and steals his lunch money. THAT is what I was disputing as an invalid comparison to Martin giving trip money to the offensive line for a prepaid trip. You are attempting to prop up that argument by claiming your friends stole from you, and that it's normal and common. That's pretty crazy.
 
Gonzo said:
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Blackmail is a form of extortion, but dear god man, extortion isn't limited to the mafia. Do you believe he gave them that much money for a trip he wasn't going on out of the kindness of his heart? :lol: :bobdole:
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Yes, it is a form of extortion, but there's also a difference in the two examples you gave. Variation and nuance is not your strong suit, I see.

I don't believe Martin was extorted. But even if he was, that is veering off my original argument, that bullying and extortion are different things.
 
HoneyB said:
Again, the example I was given, is that a larger boy picks on a weaker boy and steals his lunch money. THAT is what I was disputing as an invalid comparison to Martin giving trip money to the offensive line for a prepaid trip. You are attempting to prop up that argument by claiming your friends stole from you, and that it's normal and common. That's pretty crazy.
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Do you even bother to read entire sentences? Where did I say friends stole from me? I certainly knew friends who stole from each other. I knew kids who bullied their "friends." And it has nothing to do with "size" (That's what she said). Hell, you just had teacher point out that it happens all the time. You lost that battle buddy. Move on. It happens. Often.
 
HoneyB said:
Yes, it is a form of extortion, but there's also a difference in the two examples you gave. Variation and nuance is not your strong suit, I see.

I don't believe Martin was extorted. But even if he was, that is veering off my original argument, that bullying and extortion are different things.
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I see you want arguing semantics to be your strong suit. Do you want to argue over the meaning of the word "the?" You lost. Move on. Bullying and extortion are not mutually exclusive.
 
Gonzo said:
Do you even bother to read entire sentences? Where did I say friends stole from me? I certainly knew friends who stole from each other. I knew kids who bullied their "friends." And it has nothing to do with "size" (That's what she said). Hell, you just had teacher point out that it happens all the time. You lost that battle buddy. Move on. It happens. Often.
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You're actually bullying me right now. And no, we're not friends, and if you asked me for money, I'd say no! Naturally. Unless, of course, you had incriminating pictures of me. See how that goes?
 
HoneyB said:
You are taking this a step further into a more complicated relationship. And keep in mind, I'm not having a discussion over bullying, per se. Perhaps Martin was bullied, perhaps he wasn't. I was addressing ONLY the money. To that, the response to my post was, that yes, taking money is bullying, and the example I was provided, was a child stealing another child's "lunch money." So I would say, that if you have students that are part of the same friend set, which infers they are friends,...no one is stealing anyone else's lunch money. There's always going to be pressure, cohersion, begging, etc...because people are human. But one friend is not going to outright steal another friend's lunch money.
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Sorry, but you're dead wrong about this. When I said two kids can be part of the same friend set, I didn't say the victim considered the bully a friend. I was describing a situation in which the victim and the bully have mutual friends. So the victim either has to endure contact with the bully or give up the common friends. Again, it happens this way fairly often. In nearly 30 years of teaching, I've seen this happen quite a bit.
 
i would say theres millions of kids who are friends with their bully. It's done in an attempt to get in with the cool crowd. I am sure we all remember the nerdy timid kid in high school who kept getting picked on but would all ways try to hang out with the kids that were picking on him. It is an attempt to gain acceptance. I knew a dude in high school who wanted to be accepted so bad hed let his so called friends throw partys in his house. He would spend the entire evening alone in his bed room.. Yes alot of victims are friends with their bullys because they are trying to gain entrance into that peer group.
 
JTC111 said:
Sorry, but you're dead wrong about this. When I said two kids can be part of the same friend set, I didn't say the victim considered the bully a friend. I was describing a situation in which the victim and the bully have mutual friends. So the victim either has to endure contact with the bully or give up the common friends. Again, it happens this way fairly often. In nearly 30 years of teaching, I've seen this happen quite a bit.
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ANYBODY can have mutual friends. A good virtual example of this is facebook, where literally, there are complex, overlapping circles of friends and associates and aquaintences. I really don't see how this addresses my original point. Yes, there is bullying in school. Yes, kids bully each other, sometimes to suicide.

I don't agree that the money Martin gave Incognito is "bullying". I believe the bullying itself, if it exists, is a separate issue from Martin contributing money along with other rookies for a trip, and for dinner. That is my right. You have your own opinion, that's fine. I'm not going to discuss the issue further, because it is pointless, and because the moderator told me to move along.
 
The Martin - Wells interview went for 7 hours. To take that long, it's not a couple of isolated comments/events. It is likely that Martin has presented a lot of evidence to support the comments of harassment. Here is a really intelligent guy and he's had time to prepare with a top attorney. The belief on this website that Martin's just a wimp and that Incognito's a choir boy with a heart of gold (and great tattoos) who showed a little tough love to help his teammate, will be exposed as a sham. I expect that Martin has a stack of solid evidence that he is a real victim of harassment and don't be surprised if it is physical as well as verbal.
 
HoneyB said:
ANYBODY can have mutual friends. A good virtual example of this is facebook, where literally, there are complex, overlapping circles of friends and associates and aquaintences. I really don't see how this addresses my original point. Yes, there is bullying in school. Yes, kids bully each other, sometimes to suicide.

I don't agree that the money Martin gave Incognito is "bullying". I believe the bullying itself, if it exists, is a separate issue from Martin contributing money along with other rookies for a trip, and for dinner. That is my right. You have your own opinion, that's fine. I'm not going to discuss the issue further, because it is pointless, and because the moderator told me to move along.
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We'll drop it, but I grabbed some stuff from a few websites that confirm what I said. There were loads of sites saying the same thing:
http://www.unicef.org/malaysia/UNICEF_-_Fact_Sheet_-_Impact_and_Scope_of_Bullying.pdf\
TYPES OF BULLYING
Bullying can take many forms:
•
Direct Bullying:
teasing, verbal attacks, shoving, assaults, extortion, destruction of property

http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/types-of-bullying
Extortion Bullying…
...young children are particularly vulnerable to extortion bullying. Demands for money, possessions or equipment, lunch vouchers or food may be made, often accompanied by threats. Children may also be dared or forced to steal from the school leaving them (at the mercy of the bully) open to further intimidation.

http://ohanaselfdefense.com/docs/fuma_anti-bullying_brochure.pdf
Extortion bullies will use force or the threat of force to obtain money, food, or personal belongings from other kids.

It happens in schools this way, there's no reason why it couldn't happen with adults this way as well. I'm not saying that's what happened. I am saying that what Martin has described is consistent with bullying.
 
JTC111 said:
Something else I've been wondering about... The money that Martin gave Incognito, did RI claim it when he filed his tax returns?
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Stephen Ross began his career as a tax attorney, he will probably give Richie some good advice as he walks him to the door.
 
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