MERGED x 2: Cam Wake Hold-Out Thread

[damanref10]

IMO this is what it will take to get him resigned.

It is going to take somewhere between the
5 Year 35M that Wimbley signed and the 6 year 100M that Williams signed.

I think Wake will get close to 10M a year in the open market so you are looking at a 5 Year 50M dollar deal to get him locked up IMHO

dont want to come off as smug.... but isnt that just saying he will make somewhere between 5 million per year and the highest deal ever for a defensive player.......... lol

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Julius Peppers got a $91 million contract from the Bears when he was turning 30. We signed Joey Porter to a $32 million contract around when he was 30. Teams were willing to trade for the Giants Osi Umenyiora during the single day that New York let Osi persue offers.

Teams will give up ALOT for pass rushers, especially those with alot less wear and tear on them than Wake.

paying retail on the free agent market is not the same ballpark as what teams will trade for in compensation. i'm not saying he won't get big money wherever he gets traded to (if thats the case), im just saying arbitrarily throwing out draft picks we could get for him doesn't really make sense

 

[Spesh]

Only on Finheaven can you get this overreaction in early April Nubs.

You mean when he begins holding out and avoiding offseason workouts in April? Then yeah, thats when you get this "overreaction". So far, ive only seen people say "yeah...he deserves a new contract".

Paying Wake isnt some new development, hes been asking for it since the middle of the '10 season. Now he is holding out and people are saying "well, saw this coming". Im not sure why others are assuming we will be happy to resign him and move on, it hasnt happened the past few years and our front office has made it clear they are more interested in getting rid of veterans and "building through the draft".

We refused to approach him as he waited patiently, why should our front office approach him now that he is doing things they find upsetting?

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

dont want to come off as smug.... but isnt that just saying he will make somewhere between 5 million per year and the highest deal ever for a defensive player.......... lol

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------



paying retail on the free agent market is not the same ballpark as what teams will trade for in compensation. i'm not saying he won't get big money wherever he gets traded to (if thats the case), im just saying arbitrarily throwing out draft picks we could get for him doesn't really make sense

No I get that and I dont think you are coming off as smug.

I think though his value is going to be around 10M a year.

So 5 year 50M sounds about right to me.

In the open Market i think he would get 11M - 12M a year so if we apply a hometown discount I think he would resign for around 10M a year

 

[Dominate]

Pay the man

Not disagreeing with you, but pay him with what? Right now we are only 7 million under the cap and 5-6 of that will go to the drafted players. I agree he is very much underpaid right now, but there is nothing that can be done until there is more cap space. We have some real good players for us going on the last year of their contracts this season, with Wake and Long being the two biggest priorities.

 

[Spesh]

paying retail on the free agent market is not the same ballpark as what teams will trade for in compensation. i'm not saying he won't get big money wherever he gets traded to (if thats the case), im just saying arbitrarily throwing out draft picks we could get for him doesn't really make sense

I'll agree with the second part, that people just assuming we will land a first rounder are probably in for some disappointment. But if a team wants a premier player at a premier position, especially one that is "younger" than his listed age, then trading for him ontop of paying him large sums of money isnt going to stop them. People assuming that teams will knock down our door for Wake if he becomes available for trade are correct, because it has happened in the past for others who were (arguably) less productive.

 

[BillsFanInPeace]

Not disagreeing with you, but pay him with what? Right now we are only 7 million under the cap and 5-6 of that will go to the drafted players. I agree he is very much underpaid right now, but there is nothing that can be done until there is more cap space. We have some real good players for us going on the last year of their contracts this season, with Wake and Long being the two biggest priorities.

As long as you get one of the two done, your Franchise Tag can save the other until negotiations are complete with him.

 

[damanref10]

I'll agree with the second part, that people just assuming we will land a first rounder are probably in for some disappointment. But if a team wants a premier player at a premier position, especially one that is "younger" than his listed age, then trading for him ontop of paying him large sums of money isnt going to stop them. People assuming that teams will knock down our door for Wake if he becomes available for trade are correct, because it has happened in the past for others who were (arguably) less productive.

agree with the premise you are putting forward but not quite agreeing with the Wake has less mileage or is "younger" than other 30 year olds. Its not as if he wasn't playing football before he came into the NFL. He played college ball at Penn State and if im not mistaken blew out his knee one year. Then got cut from the Giants.. not sure if he took a year off, but then went to the CFL for two years.

He has been playing as much football as any other 30 year old give or take one year. People will knock on the door if indeed he becomes available, because his pass rushing is a necessity in today's NFL... hopefully, we find a way to keep him around

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

As long as you get one of the two done, your Franchise Tag can save the other until negotiations are complete with him.

franchise deadline passed... hes holding out now lol wanting to franchise him next year when hes a Free agent doesnt help us solve his holding out now.

 

[Spesh]

agree with the premise you are putting forward but not quite agreeing with the Wake has less mileage or is "younger" than other 30 year olds. Its not as if he wasn't playing football before he came into the NFL. He played college ball at Penn State and if im not mistaken blew out his knee one year. Then got cut from the Giants.. not sure if he took a year off, but then went to the CFL for two years.

He has been playing as much football as any other 30 year old give or take one year. People will knock on the door if indeed he becomes available, because his pass rushing is a necessity in today's NFL... hopefully, we find a way to keep him around

He did play at Penn state, but recall he was a basketball player his entire life. He never picked up a football until he was already in college and it took some coaches bugging him before he tried out. He did get "cut" from the Giants, but he only did a single practice before they asked him to leave. According to their former defensive coordinator, who became our linebackers coach and admitted this with a rueful chuckle, they didnt even try him in a pass rush drill.

Regardless, i wont try and argue around that, he is 30. But his production speaks for itself, he has been an absolute force of nature these past 2 years. Others were up for big contracts and high draft picks(for trades) at 30. If a team wants Wake, they are not going to blink at to high of a cost. That being said, we would not get go enough value for him to let him walk. Then again, its not like we got great value for letting Marshall leave either....

 

[Dmarino110]

I don't blame him one bit. Has deserved a contract extension and should get one

how much did he deserve one last year...wasnt he pretty much owned by the pats rookie tackle in game 1 and he didnt really get much better...

 

[Zounds]

Cap isnt whats keeping us from paying him. Although we are only 7 million under the cap, we could give him an extra 5 to 10 million this year in the form of a signing bonus that is spread out over the next 5 years, keep his base salary of $650K this year, and pay him a higher base salary next year when our dead cap space falls off. There are many ways to sneak around the cap. If Miami want to pay him, they will pay him and it wont be a cap issue. The real issue is what is Cam Wake worth?? Personally, I dont think Cam Wake is a 10 million a year player. He's had 1 good year and one average year.

 

[Spesh]

Cap isnt whats keeping us from paying him. Although we are only 7 million under the cap, we could give him an extra 5 million this year in signing in the form of a signing bonus that is spread out over the next 5 years, and pay him a higher base salary next year. There are many ways to sneak around the cap. If Miami want to pay him, they will pay him and it wont be a cap issue. The real issue is what is Cam Wake worth?? Personally, I dont think Cam Wake is a 10 million a year player. He's had 1 good year and one average year.

Wake reached the Pro Bowl in 2010 with 16 sacks, and last year he had an aggregate of 90 sacks, QB hits, QB pressures and holding penalties drawn, according to ProFootballFocus -- by far most in the NFL. (Chicago Bears defensive end Julius Peppers, who makes $14 million a season, was second in the NFL, with a total of 74 such plays).

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...uld-be-entirely-absent-from-dolphins-workouts-

 

[damanref10]

He did play at Penn state, but recall he was a basketball player his entire life. He never picked up a football until he was already in college and it took some coaches bugging him before he tried out. He did get "cut" from the Giants, but he only did a single practice before they asked him to leave. According to their former defensive coordinator, who became our linebackers coach and admitted this with a rueful chuckle, they didnt even try him in a pass rush drill.

Regardless, i wont try and argue around that, he is 30. But his production speaks for itself, he has been an absolute force of nature these past 2 years. Others were up for big contracts and high draft picks(for trades) at 30. If a team wants Wake, they are not going to blink at to high of a cost. That being said, we would not get go enough value for him to let him walk. Then again, its not like we got great value for letting Marshall leave either....

thats the exact issue im seeing here. there is a serious impasse. he deserves money. doesnt matter what team he is on based on the production he has shown in the NFL. we don't have the money to do it right now, and i can't see a scenario where we get even close to fair value to merit trading away a gem we picked up.

If team X offers a mid second round pick... i still don't think i would pull the trigger... but i also don't see any team offering that. They know we are backed into a corner financially and would do exactly what the Bear's did. They knew we were going to do something with Bmarsh... so why not give a cheap deal and secure him in a bears uni.

I can't find a realistic solution to being able to keep him in a Dolphins Uni longterm unless we restructure Karlos' deal and flat out cut someone like McDaniels. But that would only free up a total of around 5 million for this year anyway.

 

[Zounds]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...uld-be-entirely-absent-from-dolphins-workouts-

What about it?

 

[Cleetus]

It is sad that the cap would even be talked about as a constraint with a team this devoid of talent.

 

[damanref10]

how much did he deserve one last year...wasnt he pretty much owned by the pats rookie tackle in game 1 and he didnt really get much better...

im not even going to try and argue with you... the most efficient pass rusher in the NFL doesn't deserve more than 650k per year? laughable