Merged X12: Ongoing Henne vs. Sanchez Debate...

[nyjunc]

all I can say to all of that is to keep dreaming. I like most of your posts, but when you get on the topic of sanchez, you go off the deep end, and sound like you've spent too long staring at his GQ spread, and not enough watching his very mediocre play.

I'm pretty good at evaluating QBs. I don't fall prey to the fantasy stats like most fans. I'm pretty honest, If I wasn't happy or if I had doubts about sanchez I'd say so. I have never been more confident in this franchise long term than I am right now and Mark is a big reason why.

Yet every Jet fan was ripping Sanchez and his awful play in the regular season. Oh, and take away this dropped INT stat, Sanchez is still near the bottom of the league in every other statistic. He's garbage, and the longer the Jets don't realize that, the better for us. That's all I'm going to say in this thread. I'm not going to argue for page after page with a blind homer who's just going to spin and spin and spin all the facts proving Sanchez to not be a good QB, at all.

Who were these "every" jet fans?

Good thing we don't evluate just on stats then, right? if we did Matt cassell would be on his way to a HOF career- he sure looked good at home against Baltimore, didn't he?

Please tell me how many garbage QBs helped lead their teams to back to back title games in NFL history? I eagerly await your response.

 

[vagrantprodigy]

I'm pretty good at evaluating QBs. I don't fall prey to the fantasy stats like most fans. I'm pretty honest, If I wasn't happy or if I had doubts about sanchez I'd say so. I have never been more confident in this franchise long term than I am right now and Mark is a big reason why.

I admire your confidence, both in your own evident ability to evaluate QB's, and most especially in sanchez.

 

[phintim]

No, that's the phin fans ways of rationalizing henne.

Your point here I would consider valid. I would underline the difference in the 2 QB's last year is that Henne was asked to carry the phins offense and he could not do it while Sanchez was carried by the entire Jets teams many times during the seasons so his flaws were covered up. Still both Qb's are not that good so far.

Even this year there's no way a locial NFL fan could find 15 QBs ahea dof Sanchez. For this year and beyond there are only a handful of QBs I'd trade Sanchez for.

Dropped INTs is not something most people look at it, it is a subjective stat. Why do yuo look at dropped INts and nopt dropped TDs or receptions? Holmes dropped 2 easy TDs that if he caught we probably have 2 more wins. That's football, guys throw bad passes, guys drop passes- it's part of the game.

Let's add the dropped INts to his total, can we add the adropped TDs and recs? In the GB game alone he had 1 dropped TD and 9 dropped passes. This is so silly.

The bottom line is Sanchez is significantly better than henne at this point. Their QB ratings may be similar but Sanchez led 4-5-6 late game drives to win games last year, he plays his best when the games and the moments matter most. That is a trait that most QBs do not have. You do not get to back to back title games w/ average or poor QB play. You may be able to hide a QB one year but not 2 years. Look beyond the fantasy #s.

yes, mark has had nothing but good luck and henne bothing but bad luck. That is why we win and Miami doesn't, it's all luck. I guess we were lucky when mark was hit w/ his arm going forward and they ruled it a fumble and a TD, I guess we were lucky when Mark was hit late in the title game that would have given us a 1st down inside the 5 that wasn't called? Good teams get their share of luck but to say luck is the difference btw henne and Sanchez is comical.

No one ever said he was great in 2010 but he was good and he's getting better and he exhibits qualities that certain QBs that are considered better than him do not. I look forward to the next batch of excuses this coming season.

You have rose colored glasses on regarding many of your points here supporting Sanchez. He has managed to get hotter for the playoffs that the regular season which is to his credit. Bob Griese was the QB when I was quite young but to compare his stats to Marinios for instance would be insane as Bob had a huge running game to hide behind. His reputation as a good QB was magnified because the phins won a superbowl. Jets have traveled far in the playoffs with Sanchez which is where his support comes from. IMO. I personally credit your defense first and your offense line second along with Ryan who I personally do not care for. But give the devil his due.

 

[Vaark]

Was Will playing the most important position? was Will one of the leaders on the Bulls? and who is Michael Jordan on the Jets?

It's funny how the last 2 years went from henne is going to be great, he's so much better than sanchez to now where you guys rationalize Henne's failures by trying to bring down sanchez as well.

name me the teams in NFL history that have multiple title game apps w/ bad QBs? name me the teams in NFL history w/ a single title game app w/ bad QBs?

Actually, Henne was a better 09 QB than Sanchez. As far as one of the leaders or Jordan and Pippen's equivalents: how about the Jets running game and defense?

2010

Jets’ running game: 148.4 yards per game (fourth in NFL), 4.4 yards per carry (eighth in NFL)
Jets’ defense: 291.5 yards per game (third in NFL), 19 points per game (sixth in NFL)

Put the division's current 2nd best QB, Fitzpatrick under center and he might have won 14 games.

Again, are we disappointed in Henne's 1 year regression? Certainly. But that still doesn't make Sanchez appreciably better. I stand by the Purdue/Bradley analogy as appropriately relevent at this point in time. I had to laugh when reading earlier in the thread how JCane tried to use the Hyundai/Kia comparison in Sanchez's favor.. because Hyundai now owns Kia and manufacturers it to its standards so in reality it is more or less a spot on "apples to apples" comparison.

 

[nyjunc]

I admire your confidence, both in your own evident ability to evaluate QB's, and most especially in sanchez.

The proof backs me up.

You have rose colored glasses on regarding many of your points here supporting Sanchez. He has managed to get hotter for the playoffs that the regular season which is to his credit. Bob Griese was the QB when I was quite young but to compare his stats to Marinios for instance would be insane as Bob had a huge running game to hide behind. His reputation as a good QB was magnified because the phins won a superbowl. Jets have traveled far in the playoffs with Sanchez which is where his support comes from. IMO. I personally credit your defense first and your offense line second along with Ryan who I personally do not care for. But give the devil his due.

It's not about stats, that's why griese is a HOFer. You cannot win a SB w/ just any QB and Griese was very important to those Miami teams and sanchez is very important to our team.

Actually, Henne was a better 09 QB than Sanchez. As far as one of the leaders or Jordan and Pippen's equivalents: how about the Jets running game and defense?

2010

Jets’ running game: 148.4 yards per game (fourth in NFL), 4.4 yards per carry (eighth in NFL)
Jets’ defense: 291.5 yards per game (third in NFL), 19 points per game (sixth in NFL)

Put the division's current 2nd best QB, Fitzpatrick under center and he might have won 14 games.

Again, are we disappointed in Henne's 1 year regression? Certainly. But that still doesn't make Sanchez appreciably better. I stand by the Purdue/Bradley analogy as appropriately relevent at this point in time. I had to laugh when reading earlier in the thread how JCane tried to use the Hyundai/Kia comparison in Sanchez's favor.. because Hyundai now owns Kia and manufacturers it to its standards so in reality it is more or less a spot on "apples to apples" comparison.

Henne did have a better year in 2009 BUT he melted in Miami's biggest games and Sanchez played his best in the Jets biggest games.

Our running game was inconsistent and that 4.4 includes a meaningless great game from Joe McKnight in week 17 and Bard Smith runs. Our top 2 backs averaged just .2 more than your top 2. we had simialr running games.

Our D was also inconsistent- good but not great. They tried to blow many games only to be resuced by mark and the pass O.

mark Fitzpatrick has never played in a big game or a meaningful game in his life. This is what many people fail to understand when posting meaningless fantasy #s. mark has played well under the brightest of lights, many of the better #s QBs cannot play in those big games. Put Fitz on our team and we win 7-8 games.

Sanchez took a major step forward in year 2, henne took a step backwards. the 2 weren't close last year despite similar #s. That doesn't man Henne cannot bounce back I just wouldn't count on it. All throuhg college he wasn't a big game QB and in his limited big games in the NFL he has struggled. That's nto a good quality.

 

[vagrantprodigy]

The proof backs me up.



It's not about stats, that's why griese is a HOFer. You cannot win a SB w/ just any QB and Griese was very important to those Miami teams and sanchez is very important to our team.



Henne did have a better year in 2009 BUT he melted in Miami's biggest games and Sanchez played his best in the Jets biggest games.

Our running game was inconsistent and that 4.4 includes a meaningless great game from Joe McKnight in week 17 and Bard Smith runs. Our top 2 backs averaged just .2 more than your top 2. we had simialr running games.

Our D was also inconsistent- good but not great. They tried to blow many games only to be resuced by mark and the pass O.

mark Fitzpatrick has never played in a big game or a meaningful game in his life. This is what many people fail to understand when posting meaningless fantasy #s. mark has played well under the brightest of lights, many of the better #s QBs cannot play in those big games. Put Fitz on our team and we win 7-8 games.

Sanchez took a major step forward in year 2, henne took a step backwards. the 2 weren't close last year despite similar #s. That doesn't man Henne cannot bounce back I just wouldn't count on it. All throuhg college he wasn't a big game QB and in his limited big games in the NFL he has struggled. That's nto a good quality.

hahaha

hahaha

hahaha

omg, haha...

I just can't stop laughing... Those are the worst arguements/attempts to make a point ever...

I give up trying to have a rational discussion of QB's with you. It clearly cannot be done.

 

[nyjunc]

hahaha

hahaha

hahaha

omg, haha...

I just can't stop laughing... Those are the worst arguements/attempts to make a point ever...

I give up trying to have a rational discussion of QB's with you. It clearly cannot be done.

Please do give up b/c it's obvious you don't have a clue what you are talking about. According to your line of "thinking" Tony Romo, Matt Schaub, Chad Pennington and Joe Flacco must be better than dan marino b/c they have higher carrer QB ratings. It's embarrassing that we have so many fans that just pay attention to meaningless stats. Matt cassell is a pro bowler! never mind he was beyond dreadful in his lone playoff game at home he put up great #s against teams like Oak and den during the reg season!

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Remember that time we had our 12342341235th debate about Sanchez and Henne?

 

[vagrantprodigy]

Please do give up b/c it's obvious you don't have a clue what you are talking about. According to your line of "thinking" Tony Romo, Matt Schaub, Chad Pennington and Joe Flacco must be better than dan marino b/c they have higher carrer QB ratings. It's embarrassing that we have so many fans that just pay attention to meaningless stats. Matt cassell is a pro bowler! never mind he was beyond dreadful in his lone playoff game at home he put up great #s against teams like Oak and den during the reg season!

Better than Marino, hell no. Better than Sanchez, hell yes. Put Cassell on the jets, and I think they would have been in the Super Bowl the last two years.

 

[nyjunc]

Better than Marino, hell no. Better than Sanchez, hell yes. Put Cassell on the jets, and I think they would have been in the Super Bowl the last two years.

Wow! you really shouldn't be laughing at anyone w/ that statement. Cassell took over a team that was undefeated the previous year in NE and couldn't get NE to the playoffs despite a much easier sched. cassell in his lone playoff game(at home in supposedly the toughest building to play in for opponents) gets torn apart. leads his O to 7 pts(which came on a long Jamal Charles TD run), throws for 70 yds, 3 INts and no TDs yet he's better than a QB who has helped lead his team to 4 ROAD playoff wins inclduing knocking off the hottest teams in the league in the div rd each of the last 2 years.

Put Cassell on the Jets and we may make the playoffs in '09 but we wouldn't make the title game and I don't think we would even have made the playoffs last year. It will be fun over the next few years when you guys finally have to start giving sanchez some credit.

 

[phintim]

Bottom line and I will exlude the playoffs since we did not go put Henne in a Jets uniform last year and you win 2 more games compared to Sanchez. Different team different circumstances and a different coach. You hava a coach that is not afraid to gamble and go for it complete opposite of the phins with Tony S and Chad Pennington guiding Henne, a superb defense compare to the phins and a much better offensive line than the phins last year. There is very little comparision. Its all projection about how well Henne would do I understand but those are pretty solid facts between the Jets and Phins. Sanchez I might add would have melted much earlier than Henne in Miami.

 

[nyjunc]

Bottom line and I will exlude the playoffs since we did not go put Henne in a Jets uniform last year and you win 2 more games compared to Sanchez. Different team different circumstances and a different coach. You hava a coach that is not afraid to gamble and go for it complete opposite of the phins with Tony S and Chad Pennington guiding Henne, a superb defense compare to the phins and a much better offensive line than the phins last year. There is very little comparision. Its all projection about how well Henne would do I understand but those are pretty solid facts between the Jets and Phins. Sanchez I might add would have melted much earlier than Henne in Miami.

How do you figure we win 2 more games w/ henne when henne has never shown the ability to play well in big games?

I believe if we switched the QBs last year Miami wins at kleast 9 and the Jets win around 7-8. Henne cannot play w/ pressure to win or at least he has not shown that either in college or his 2 years starting in the NFL.

 

[insomnia411]

:D


It's always comical to read "articles" like that which solely use stats to back up their weak arguments. At some point most football fans will begin to realize #s only tell part of the story. I felt embarrased to read that nonsense. The funniest part was comparing them in head to head games and throwing in the line about Miami winning 3 of the games. Well which is it? do wins matter or not?

The bottom line is this, we don't have articles proclaiming sanchez to be finally taking leadership this offseason, he's been a leader since day 1. Our team isn't looking for a QB, we have our franchise QB. Not only did Sanchez organize passing camps the last 2 years but he has done that going back to college. he is a natural leader not some stiff robot. The team organized a lockout camp recently led by mark. Not only did he gather his teammates but he printed playbooks, downloaded video, they had classroom sessions then went on the practice field. That's a leader. Chad henne has NFL tools w/o a doubt but there's more to this position than physical tools or else it would be easy to find franchise QBs.

I know what the #s say but I also know what I am watching and understand the two aren't really close right now despite some similar #s.


The only part of the article I agree w/ somewhat is the last paragraph as far as both being young and developing. They are both still developing but one has shown the ability to lead and perform on the big stage while he is devleoping while the other has shown a tendency to play scared in his biggest games.

Just wanna preface this by saying im a yankee fan too... But are u one of those yankee fans who ignore stats to say that derek jeter is still valuable? The stats do tell the story, jeter blows now - sanchez always has blown. Career qb rate of 70 w that team around him = pitiful. Stop it.

 

[insomnia411]

This argument has been beaten to death 1000 times. We'll see what happens this year, i believe ill be proven right.

 

[nyjunc]

Just wanna preface this by saying im a yankee fan too... But are u one of those yankee fans who ignore stats to say that derek jeter is still valuable? The stats do tell the story, jeter blows now - sanchez always has blown. Career qb rate of 70 w that team around him = pitiful. Stop it.

I'm one of those fans who doesn't JUST look at stats, I look at hoew they accumulated those stats. If player A throws 15 TDs and 10 are in big situations that means more to me than player B throwing 30 for the year w/ 25 of them in meaningless spots. Stats are very useful but you have to know how to interpret them, they aren't black and white especially for a QB.