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Pachyderm_Wave

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You don’t find Phillips lack of consistent production concerning against inferior competition?

Well no because I’ve watched the film. Phillips wins nearly every rep against his man whether it results in a sack or not.

He produced against the best competition on the schedule.
 

PSU Cane

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Do you gamble on greatness for a player like Oweh, or go with someone your pretty sure will be solid like Basham?

I gamble on greatness. Give me the elite traits and let me push my coaches to mold the kid. I'm taking the risk of Phillips health or Oweh's upside over Basham. That's just me.

If you're 1 piece away and only need solid production.....then i can see you playing safe and taking the guy with the higher ceiling.
 

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You don’t find Phillips lack of consistent production concerning against inferior competition?

What i saw was a guy who improved over the course of 2020 after really not playing much for almost 2 years.

6.5 of his 8 sacks and 11 of his 15.5 TFLs came over his final 4 games. He showed traits early in the year but you saw him put it together a little more each week until it all started to click.
 

j-off-her-doll

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Would you take Oweh at #18?

I kind of view Basham as a possibility at #36.

Particularly for Miami, I would not. I think he's probably worth a Top 20 pick to a team like Minnesota but more of a Top 40 for Miami.

Payton Turner is probably my favorite DE fit for Miami. Ellerson Smith is about as good as any of the OLB options - if Miami leans into more of a pass rusher. If he's there, and he could be, because he's not a great fit for a lot of teams, Zaven Collins would be the ideal OLB at 36 - after Parsons, who can obv also play Mike.

But, there's a lot of defensive talent to sift through at 36 and even 50 (based on projections), and Terrace Marshall and Elijah Moore are currently projected in that range, but, like Eric Stokes, I think they end up going earlier. Elijah Molden is my favorite player of the options that I view as realistic. There's definitely a world where I go Pitts/WR, Horn, Molden with the first three picks. DeVonta Smith didn't fall to 18, Marshall and Moore didn't fall to 36, and Horn somehow fell to 18, but I wouldn't skip tiers because the team needs just this and this.

I do see the holes at edge, and I think the value will line up to fill those holes, but the draft is about acquiring players who move the needle the most for your team. Those are the best players. Not many players in a given class make a lasting impact, and the draft is about adding as many good football players at valuable positions as possible. FA is for needs. FA creates your floor.

If you have enough great players, your holes become a lot easier to fill, because you really only need competence to support greatness. If you have a roster full of good players, but you lack those transcendent talents at key positions, your margin of error is smaller, and your holes are glaring. The Colts are a good example. Their best player is a Guard.
 

PSU Cane

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Particularly for Miami, I would not. I think he's probably worth a Top 20 pick to a team like Minnesota but more of a Top 40 for Miami.

Payton Turner is probably my favorite DE fit for Miami. Ellerson Smith is about as good as any of the OLB options - if Miami leans into more of a pass rusher. If he's there, and he could be, because he's not a great fit for a lot of teams, Zaven Collins would be the ideal OLB at 36 - after Parsons, who can obv also play Mike.

But, there's a lot of defensive talent to sift through at 36 and even 50 (based on projections), and Terrace Marshall and Elijah Moore are currently projected in that range, but, like Eric Stokes, I think they end up going earlier. Elijah Molden is my favorite player of the options that I view as realistic. There's definitely a world where I go Pitts/WR, Horn, Molden with the first three picks. DeVonta Smith didn't fall to 18, Marshall and Moore didn't fall to 36, and Horn somehow fell to 18, but I wouldn't skip tiers because the team needs just this and this.

I do see the holes at edge, and I think the value will line up to fill those holes, but the draft is about acquiring players who move the needle the most for your team. Those are the best players. Not many players in a given class make a lasting impact, and the draft is about adding as many good football players at valuable positions as possible. FA is for needs. FA creates your floor.

If you have enough great players, your holes become a lot easier to fill, because you really only need competence to support greatness. If you have a roster full of good players, but you lack those transcendent talents at key positions, your margin of error is smaller, and your holes are glaring. The Colts are a good example. Their best player is a Guard.
Turner looks stiff on tape to me, tight in the hips. I’m curious how he’ll test. I haven’t watched much on him yet and he did find ways to flip his hips and flatten but something just didn’t look easy or natural to me.
 

silver McNibblets

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Biggest loser today is Rousseau. Can't take this guy anywhere near the first round with numbers like these, and such limited playing experience.

Phillips did really well. He's definitely worth a first rounder if you are comfortable with the concussion history.

Roche had a solid if not spectacular day. He has the best tape of the three, imo. I'd take him in the second, and I think his value in the third is excellent.
 

j-off-her-doll

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Well no because I’ve watched the film. Phillips wins nearly every rep against his man whether it results in a sack or not.

He produced against the best competition on the schedule.

It's true. He just whoops people all game. If he stayed healthy, and was able to put together a "resume," he'd probably be considered the best defensive player in the draft. Very few guys have the total package like he does. Some guys are as athletic, some guys are as strong, some are as skilled, but very few can match him across the board in the areas that matter the most. He's different from both in certain ways, but his ability to threaten the outside shoulder without ovetextending himself reminds me of guys like TJ Watt and Brian Burns.
 

j-off-her-doll

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Turner looks stiff on tape to me, tight in the hips. I’m curious how he’ll test. I haven’t watched much on him yet and he did find ways to flip his hips and flatten but something just didn’t look easy or natural to me.


For a 6'5 270 LB DE with 35" arms, he looks fluid to me. Still developing his pass rush, but I don't see physical limitations that would keep him from developing into a quality starter.
 

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For a 6'5 270 LB DE with 35" arms, he looks fluid to me. Still developing his pass rush, but I don't see physical limitations that would keep him from developing into a quality starter.

We'll see. If he runs 4.89, it will not be good, he needs to be around 4.7 at the most.
 

j-off-her-doll

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We'll see. If he runs 4.89, it will not be good, he needs to be around 4.7 at the most.

Faster is better, I agree, but when you look at the role he'd play in Miami, the two best players for New England in that role have been Chandler Jones and Trey Flowes, and they both ran 4.8+.
 

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Faster is better, I agree, but when you look at the role he'd play in Miami, the two best players for New England in that role have been Chandler Jones and Trey Flowes, and they both ran 4.8+.

I would just focus on Elerson Smith if Turner does not run 4.70ish. Let someone else draft Turner. Right now, Smith is composite ranked #189 (141 highest 250 lowest). Should be able to get him in second round and fix the DE opposite Ogbah. (Turner is composite ranked #178; 87 highest, 290 lowest).)
 
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