More reasons why I honestly don't uderstand the "experts" | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

More reasons why I honestly don't uderstand the "experts"

I thought you had lost the plot when you said Gus and Collins were about even but a closer look at the stats shows Gus has both a higher qb rating better yards per attempt and better TD-Int Ratio than collins. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1013 http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1070

I would rank it as follows;

Qb - having seen the stats PUSH
RB - MIAMI
Wr - While we may have a more rounded group they have Moss - RAIDERS
Te - MIAMI
O-line - Untill McKinney proves he is a starter or is cut - RAIDERS (just)
D-Line - Oakland have 2 washed up DT's and a 1 season wonder at DE - MIAMI
Lb's - Oakland have probably the worst Lb's in the nfl - MIAMI
Cb - Were Poole fit i'd give it to Miami but i think we lack a bit of depth - PUSH
S - Oaklands safetys are awful and if shulters can learn the system we might not be to bad - MIAMI
K - As mentioned both good kickers who miss the odd easy one - PUSH
P - Lechler by a mile - RAIDERS

MIAMI - 5
EVENS - 3
RAIDERS - 3
 
OK, well, I don't fall into the Randy Moss hype until he starts to contribute more as an entire team player. His presence in Minny didn't accomplish much for that team and I don't think it will in Oakland either. Moss was doubled and sometimes tripled last night, and Porter/Curry/Whitted did absolutely nothing to take advantage of that. Nor did their tight end. Don't et me wrong, Moss is a fantastic talent if you are just looking at a single WR on his own, but I still don't get the sense Randy has the team chemistry as that star of a player as Rice had, Harrison has, Isaac Bruce has, Torry Holt has. Randy may have better physical skills, but when lumped into the entire offense I think those players are more substantial in their dimension.

I'd be enamored if people would double and triple Chambers every single play. Although I'd feel bad for CC's stats, Booker, Boston, McMichael would have ample ability in the vast open spaces.
 
Collins led his team to a superbowl. that alone makes him a better QB. Also, Woodson is much better at defending the run that Madison is but thier pass coverage skills are even so I would give a slight edge to Woodson, but overall I think your observations where very astute.
 
FEARDAFINS said:
Collins led his team to a superbowl. that alone makes him a better QB. Also, Woodson is much better at defending the run that Madison is but thier pass coverage skills are even so I would give a slight edge to Woodson, but overall I think your observations where very astute.
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So Trent Dilfer is better than Peyton Manning right now?
 
@@@@@ said:
I thought you had lost the plot when you said Gus and Collins were about even but a closer look at the stats shows Gus has both a higher qb rating better yards per attempt and better TD-Int Ratio than collins. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1013 http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1070

I would rank it as follows;

Qb - having seen the stats PUSH
RB - MIAMI
Wr - While we may have a more rounded group they have Moss - RAIDERS
Te - MIAMI
O-line - Untill McKinney proves he is a starter or is cut - RAIDERS (just)
D-Line - Oakland have 2 washed up DT's and a 1 season wonder at DE - MIAMI
Lb's - Oakland have probably the worst Lb's in the nfl - MIAMI
Cb - Were Poole fit i'd give it to Miami but i think we lack a bit of depth - PUSH
S - Oaklands safetys are awful and if shulters can learn the system we might not be to bad - MIAMI
K - As mentioned both good kickers who miss the odd easy one - PUSH
P - Lechler by a mile - RAIDERS

MIAMI - 5
EVENS - 3
RAIDERS - 3
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But there is one Moss, even though he is the greatest in the game right now, we have three receivers with probowl talent on the team, two that have already been there. The other two are good, but if there were two Randy Moss's on the team then the raideres would definitly have a better Wr corps. Or if it was Randy Moss had Chad Johnson playing opposite of him it would be a much different story, but the collective talent, I would say Miami.
 
Schleprock said:
Why is Collins better?? Because looking at his stats and career, he hasn't done anything more than Frerotte. Me thinks you are just people who don't like Frerotte.
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Collins has been considered the starter everywhere he has been. Gus seems to be considered the solid backup everywhere he has been.
 
Schleprock said:
Watching the Oak/NE game last night in its entirety made me wonder even more just how biased, ignorant, clueless, or homer-esque these so called "experts" are on all the NFL columns and TV programs. I won't even go into the fact that at one point when they showed Kraft in his private box you could see Berman, S. Young, et al from ESPN sitting RIGHT BEHIND HIM!!! Bias much???

Anyhow, "experts" have been saying all offseason how wonderful Oakland has done with building up their offense, adding talent, etc. They have touched on the defense being questionable, but only very lightly and tend to focus more on Moss and Jordan, etc. After watching last night I have to say: How the hell is Oakland any better than us???? How can Sean Dingleburry NOT say the same asinine comment about winning 4 games in relation to them?? Seriously, I have evaluated this from a non-homer perspective before typing this post in order to be fair. This team isn't better than us on the field...or even on paper!! Yet they get all this love. We know why though, because of Randy Moss and the Raider name, but anyway, here's my reasoning.

QB: Collins and Frerotte are even. Both are vets, who CAN throw, read D's, manage a game...BUT, they seem to be either on their game, or really off and aren't consistent. Collins is not better than Gus, and vice versa. PUSH
RB: Jordan is a nice back, however, Ricky and Ronnie I think is easily the better choice. MIAMI
FB: Who cares, neither hardly use one. PUSH
WR: Moss, Porter, Curry, Whitted compared to Chambers, Booker, DBo, Welker. Moss is great but not enough to cover the rest. Curry = 1yr wonder so far and Porter is always underachieving!! As a group across the board; MIAMI
TE: Not even close; MIAMI
OL: After watching Oakland last night, their O-line plays just like ours. A couple good plays then a bunch of garbage, then back to a couple good. Gallery looked unimpressive, L.Walker was horrendous, Grove was OK, Sims was solid. They could run the ball, but their pass blocking was pooh. IMO the teams are a PUSH
DL: Kelly, Sapp (way past hsi prime, it wasn't the move to DE last year!!), Washington (old but solid), Hamilton, Burgess, etc. None of these guys could get any pressure, played good run D though. However; Taylor, Carter, Traylor, Holliday, Zgonina, Bowens, Roth are much more talented, experienced and deeper. MIAMI
LB: Not even close, the Raiders have no one even as good as Crowder for Chrissakes MIAMI
CB: Woodson and Madison are even. Nnamdi is a nickel corner AT BEST so I would give the edge to Howard/Daniels. Routt was a "Jerry Wilson" at nickel so I give us the edge again for the Howard/Daniels at that spot. Where was Fabian Washington besides me seeing him sitting on the bench?? MIAMI
S: Schweigert looked inexperienced and confused, Derrick Gibson looked like perhaps the worst player on the field. Missing tackles and can't cover. Our safety position is still learning, but I feel confident Schulters/Jones/Bell have more potential than the Raiders group!! MIAMI
K: Both are good and tend to miss the gimme once in awhile PUSH
P: Lechler by a longshot RAIDERS
COACHING STAFF: I cannot even name the Def and Off. coordinators and I know I saw them visually last night. Add to that Norv Turner has always been an underachieving head coach and the fact everyone aside from Dolphin people even admits our NEW coaching staff is top notch, this is simple MIAMI

Miami = 8
Raiders = 1
Evens = 4

So, am I a crackhead or on par?
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the fact that you picked miamis WRs over oaklands shows you this is not a non-homer prospective.
 
I believe Collins had to do a lot more for that team to win than Trent Dilfer did for his team and I would rather have Trent Dilfer as a QB that Gus. He might not win you the game but he won't lose it for you. Not that I'm saying I'm happy with mediocracy but after last year, that would be a couple giant steps forward. And btw Gus is not Peyton or Dan or any other great QB that has never won or gone to a SB. Collins has at least shown he can lead a team to wins and isn't that what its all about????
 
yeah id give them WRs... porter is a good WR too, and boston has not shown anything in a few years to warrant people being too worried aobut him, as of now i'll go with oakland...

moss > chambers
porter = booker
curry boston both are ? right now...

but either wya i agree with most of it, though i feel like their oline is better than they showed last night, and thats the most important part of an offense, without a line you can run or pass, if you have a good line your a good offensive team point blank... so hopefully our line can play well this year
 
Let us remember they were playing the patriots, who have made a lot of offenses look like they are not really that good. And still they looked pretty sweet when the game started.

You could argue that historically both Collins and Gus are at the same level, since Gus has put up better numbers and what not. But truth of the matter is Gus has been a long time without being a starter anywhere, not even Cincinatti (where he was replaced by akili smith, kitna, and that other journeyman who used to play in the gators, and then with the Bears, I really can't remember his name) Collins was more than a decent starter in the Giants, I know he can make dumbheaded mistakes, I know he is never going to be mistaken than Dan MArino, and I might concede that when Frerrote beat Schuler for the starting job in the redskins (about 11 years ago) he was a better QB... But now? I think that is a reach.

In terms of the WR. Man we got a lot of potential there, but what we have are, a young WR that has a lot of talent but never has been able to break 1000 (talk about Jerry Porter underachieving, Chambers has too), A legitimate possesion receiver (which happens to be the one that dolfans just don't want), and a guy that has not played in a year, got in all sorts of trouble, had a bad year in SD before the year he missed, and that we all hope recovers his old level. Hope, we don't know, we just hope.

The raiders WR have: Probably the best receiver in the league (actually if you ask me, the best receiver in the league), Jerry Porter who was just 2 yards behind 1000 last year, and Ronald Curry, that might not be the greatest thing, but he has put up stats. They looked bad against the Patriots, but you must remember that half the games the patriots were playing really really deep, with more DBs than normal, and still managed to pressure Collins all day, I am afraid, I think that the Raiders have a better WR team.

The OL might be a push, might, I say that because this is just considering we have improved greatly from last year, which we don't know, but what if we get pushed around by the Browncos line? Which is a very great possibility, the raiders got pushed around by the PAtriots, a lot of offensive lines have been pushed around by the Patriots, I think you, like most of us at one point, have a very homeristic view of our offense. They are paper good, but I just don't think they are really good until they hit the field.

In terms of Defense you are right, up until the CB, I don't care how well Travis Daniels played in the preseason, it still is the preseason, Madison is our best corner, and he has lost more than one step, Woodson might not be a premier corner, or the best of the league, but at this point in their career, he is better than Madison. All the rest of the people we have, suck, just as bad as the Raider's guys, so... I mean if MAdison goes down, Brady is going to rack up like 600 yards on us.
 
I agree with you 100%. Great post however I hope Mare gets back to his old form we'll need the points.
 
BenchFiedler said:
Last night, the Raiders shot themsleves in the foot. I believe they could of won that game if they eliminated the penalties for 100+ yards. During the 2nd half,
Brady was presured a lot but the offense was holding on every play.

I cannot concur that we are better than the Raiders at this point, at least offensively.
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Brady didnt even have a guy within 3 yds of him until the second half last night! Collins on the other hand had someone in his face all night!
 
Raiders have no defense. The only good players on their defense are charles woodson (who has done nothing recently) and ted washington who is old, but can stuff the midddle. They are terrible. Oakland is like a cheap mans verision of the colts with less defense
 
Collins is better than Frerootte and it's not close, RBs are a slight edge Miami, WRs are clearly in oak's favor as their #2 is better than your #1, Ols are even, TE is Miami, defensively neither team is good but Miami is better. STs are even so Oak has a dynamic O vs. Miami's subpar O and Miami has an average D compared to Oak's subpar D so the advantage definitely goes to Oak overall. They'll win around 7 and you will win around 6.
 
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