My only problem with the Dolphins drafting Jay Cutler... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

My only problem with the Dolphins drafting Jay Cutler...

CashInFist

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The only thing that scares me is that he played for a LOSING team. I can't remember any great QB in NFL history that played for a losing team in college. I am pretty sure a few good ones may have slipped my mind but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Why would we want to invest our future on someone that isn't a proven winner? He really does have a strong arm but so did Billy Joe Tolliver (I remember the velocity on his passes in the OLD Tecmo Super Bowl for the original Nintendo Entertainment System). Cutler may end up in the hall of fame and I will be totally onboard if we draft him, but I wanted to share my concern. Am I being to critical? Or is my logic justified?
 
Off the top of my head, John Elway never lead Stanford to a bowl game. I don't recall what the won loss record was though.

As for your question, I think it's being too critical. Football is a team game and you can't base the team's record on just the QB. Unless of course you agree with all those that claim Marino can't be considered among the greats b/c he never won the SB.
 
How was Southern Miss when Brett Favre was there. I don't think they were great but I'm unsure?
 
This has been discussed to great lengths. Fishypete started a long thread about it.
 
rafael said:
Off the top of my head, John Elway never lead Stanford to a bowl game. I don't recall what the won loss record was though.

As for your question, I think it's being too critical. Football is a team game and you can't base the team's record on just the QB. Unless of course you agree with all those that claim Marino can't be considered among the greats b/c he never won the SB.





College or the big leagues?
In 1979, John was the highest recruited prep athlete in the nation. Tall, strong, and mobile when scrambling out of the pocket, college football scouts recognized John as a threat to score, through the air or on the ground, on any given play. He was also a highly touted baseball prospect, and was drafted out of high school by the Kansas City Royals.
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Despite the allure of pro baseball, John elected to attend Stanford University, which was known for its high academic standards and its football team’s high-octane passing attack. By the time he finished playing quarterback for The Cardinal, John Elway held NCAA Division I career records for passing attempts and completions, and most games with more than 200 yards passing (30). Over four years, he passed for 9,349 yards and 77 touchdowns, earning All-America honors his senior year, and graduating in 1983 with a degree in economics.
Ironically, John’s final college game, against the arch-rival Bears of California, ended with one of the most famous plays in college football history. Following a field goal that put Stanford ahead by one with seconds remaining, Cal returned the ensuing kickoff, making five laterals along the way, for a game-winning touchdown as time expired. The Stanford band, which had already entered the field, bore the brunt of the Cal victory celebration.
 
SpeedRush99 said:
This has been discussed to great lengths. Fishypete started a long thread about it.

Actually...I've always said that Cutler would be good value in the second round...it's not that I don't like Cutler...I'm just not accepting the hype about him.
 
fishypete said:
Actually...I've always said that Cutler would be good value in the second round...it's not that I don't like Cutler...I'm just not accepting the hype about him.

I know, I was just saying your brought this topic up before.
 
College years





It didn't take long for John Elway to make an impact on the Stanford football program.
At his first practice, he was impressive enough to send quarterbacks Babe Laufenberg and Grayson Rogers packing. Soon he also sent wide receiver Don Longsinger to the trainer with a bullet pass that cut his finger to the bone.
By the end of his freshman year, Elway had played in nine games and ranked among the Pac-10's top 10 passers.
A year later, he became a national star, setting league records for touchdown passes, completions and touchdowns while becoming one of the rare sophomore quarterbacks to earn All-America honors.
Elway's junior season was a different matter. The Cardinal lost to Purdue (27-19), Ohio State (24-19), Arizona (17-13), Southern Cal (25-17), Arizona State (62-36), Washington (42-31) and, hardest of all, to Jack Elway's San Jose State team (28-6).
John was dazed and bloodied after that game. Privately, Jack bitterly criticized the Stanford coaches for subjecting his son to continued abuse. Later he learned John had insisted on playing.
Stanford finished with a 4-7 record -- its worst since 1963. The Cardinal running game was ineffective, and near the end, Elway argued with offensive coordinator Jim Fassel some days and withdrew into silence on others. "Until we won a few in the end, John was being consumed by his own competitive instincts," Fassel said.
In 1982, Elway led Stanford to a 43-41 win over No. 1-ranked Washington and finished second to Herschel Walker in Heisman Trophy voting. His 24 touchdowns were the most by any quarterback in the country. His 3,242 passing yards earned him unanimous All-America honors.
During the summer of 1982, John Elway played for the New York Yankees' New York-Pennsylvania Class A team in Oneonta, N.Y. He opened the season June 18 in right field and didn't get his first hit until the third game. He was 3-for-27 in his first eight games, hitting .111 in the Nos. 3 or 4 spots.
But he ended the six-week stint with a .318 average, a team-leading 24 RBI and no errors in 42 games. That was good enough for Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, who wanted to make Elway "the next Mickey Mantle."
HIGHLIGHT

During a game in Norman, Okla., Elway threw for four TDs and ran for another during a 32-24 upset of Oklahoma. Said Sooners coach Barry Switzer: "John Elway put on the greatest exhibition of quarterbacking I've ever seen on this field."
CONTROVERSY

Elway's final game ranks among the most bizarre in NFL history. On Nov. 20, 1982, with California leading 19-17 and time fading, Elway led Stanford on what appeared to be the winning drive. With four seconds left, Stanford's Mark Harmon kicked a 35-yard field goal to lift the Cardinal to a 20-19 lead.
On the ensuing kickoff, California's Kevin Moen fielded the ball on the 43 and ran out the clock -- or so the Stanford band thought as it poured onto the field. But the Bears began a series of laterals that advanced the ball to deep in Cardinal territory, where the Stanford band kept defenders from tackling the Bears' ball carriers. Moen knocked over a trombone player and barged into the end zone. Cal won 25-20 in one of the strangest conclusions to any athletic event in American sports history.
"That was one of the most unpleasant times of all," Elway said.


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/elway/0503COLL5.SHTML




A tearful farewell
Despite chronic pain in his bones, Elway's decision from the gut
Bowlen loses a QB, keeps a friend
Shanahan bids adieu to 'greatest'
As always, Janet was there in support
Fans bare broken hearts to honor retired soul of Broncos
Elway on airwaves? It could happen at ABC
Shanahan: No need to draft a QB
Transcript of Elway's parting words
High marks for Elway
Drive, he said
Last game perhaps Elway's finest moment 50 things you might not know
 
CashInFist said:
The only thing that scares me is that he played for a LOSING team. I can't remember any great QB in NFL history that played for a losing team in college. I am pretty sure a few good ones may have slipped my mind but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Why would we want to invest our future on someone that isn't a proven winner? He really does have a strong arm but so did Billy Joe Tolliver (I remember the velocity on his passes in the OLD Tecmo Super Bowl for the original Nintendo Entertainment System). Cutler may end up in the hall of fame and I will be totally onboard if we draft him, but I wanted to share my concern. Am I being to critical? Or is my logic justified?

You determine a prospect by HIS skills and talent NOT by the skills and talent of the people around him.

I'm not saying Cutler is or isn't a good prospect but this concern IMO a non issue unless you see clear examples of how he added to his teams ineptness.
 
fishypete said:
Actually...I've always said that Cutler would be good value in the second round...it's not that I don't like Cutler...I'm just not accepting the hype about him.

I'm not buying into all the hype either. He's a good player, but I think some people are overrating him because he has the potential to be taken by the Phins. He could have an amazing workout, I still wouldn't buy the hype, Mamula had an incredible workout and was overvalued by the Eagles. Maybe at 16 he wouldn't be a bad pick, as much as I wanna see the Phins invest in a Qb I don't think I would even consider trading up for him.
 
CashInFist said:
He really does have a strong arm but so did Billy Joe Tolliver (I remember the velocity on his passes in the OLD Tecmo Super Bowl for the original Nintendo Entertainment System). ?

The velocity of his passes in Tecmo Bowl?
Is that really how you came to the conclusion of the strength of his arm?
 
Trekbiz said:
You determine a prospect by HIS skills and talent NOT by the skills and talent of the people around him.

Thats a hard concept for some people to comprehend.
 
b_hjelmeland123 said:
How was Southern Miss when Brett Favre was there. I don't think they were great but I'm unsure?

Brett Favre won the New Orleans Bowl 31-19 over Arkansas State. Southern Miss had a winning record (6-5).

Bowling is becoming a Southern Miss tradition.
The Golden Eagles continue their postseason history Tuesday night when they play Arkansas State in the New Orleans Bowl in Lafayette.
Southern Miss (6-5) has earned its eighth bowl bid in the last nine years, including four straight.
Before the Golden Eagles' 41-7 win over Pittsburgh in the 1997 Liberty Bowl, Southern Miss' last bowl appearance came during Brett Favre's final season at the 1990 All American Bowl.
Ironically, the 31-27 loss to North Carolina State represented Jeff Bower's first as a head coach after Curley Hallman was hired at LSU.
In Favre's final game before being heading to the NFL, the former Han**** North Central standout completed 28-of-39 passes for 341 yards and two touchdowns.
"What I remember more than a win or a loss was it was my last game as a Golden Eagle, something I will never forget," Favre said. "It was my last game and Jeff's first game. It was an exciting game for the fans. For me, it was the end of my career. I really miss and cherish my days as a Golden Eagle."
Favre, a future Pro Football Hall of Famer with the Green Bay Packers, is a big part of the Golden Eagles' bowl history. He led the Golden Eagles to the 1988 Independence Bowl, resulting in a 38-14 rout of Texas-El Paso. Favre completed 15-of-26 passes for 157 yards...


Link:

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/13410968.htm
 
Roger Staubach (navy)
Terry Bradshaw (La. Tech)
Jim Plunkett (Stanford)

Just to name a few there is I believe 8 SB wins among those # names
 
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