My Take On RI/JM (If Tired Of The Situation Don't Read) | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

My Take On RI/JM (If Tired Of The Situation Don't Read)

tl77 said:
I agree with the thought he had depression/mental issues. I think that if a normal person was treated the same way, like others in the locker room have been, they can handle it and it isn't an issue. But because he does have mental problems, now all of a sudden he's a victim though?

At some point, depressed or not, it's your life. You have to decide how you're going to live and if you're gonna get help or not.

He seemed pretty self aware of his issues in the texts & such he sent his mom. He chose not to deal with his problems. He chose to stop going to therapy and not seek different help.
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If he was from abject poverty in Liberty City or something, that would be one thing.

He's from the cream of society. A rich boy. His parents were well to do. He has all the
advantages....Yet.....HE is the victim.

Hm.

He's so mentally ill, and it just now manifests.
 
This short-sighted view of mental illness is disappointing to say the least. Its stubborn and thoughtless to toss out any idea of one's mental health and its effect on decision making. The fact of the matter is Mental Illness is a real thing regardless if you believe it or not. No you can not "extend the definition as long as you want to." No one is saying that but you. Mental illness doesn't excuse "everything" and this "Nothing can be proven or dis-proven", well I don't even know what that means and I'm not sure you do either from the way you are talking about it.

You can handle you business, that's great. I wish all people could "handle their business." Still doesn't explain why you had to mention how much someone weighs. It was just a silly thing to say, don't defend it.

If it were that simple don't you think that everyone would do just that? Just handle their business with other people?
 
kizzaboo said:
This short-sighted view of mental illness is disappointing to say the least. Its stubborn and thoughtless to toss out any idea of one's mental health and its effect on decision making. The fact of the matter is Mental Illness is a real thing regardless if you believe it or not. No you can not "extend the definition as long as you want to." No one is saying that but you. Mental illness doesn't excuse "everything" and this "Nothing can be proven or dis-proven", well I don't even know what that means and I'm not sure you do either from the way you are talking about it.

You can handle you business, that's great. I wish all people could "handle their business." Still doesn't explain why you had to mention how much someone weighs. It was just a silly thing to say, don't defend it.

If it were that simple don't you think that everyone would do just that? Just handle their business with other people?
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Actually, everything can be excused one way or the other by "Mental illness"
Obviously, one's weight does not count. I was quite svelte at one point.
It's simple. Just like lots of things;
-Saving for retirement
-Working out
-Insurance
The answer is simple and right before your eyes.

Stand up for yourself.

If necessary, take your ass-whuppin like a man.

But don't take others down with you.
 
Say that three times and click your heels. Its a real thing and it doesn't justify people doing things that we would deem wrong as a society. "Mental illness" is the ****ty end of a the health scale. The same way my Kidneys could be in the ****ty end of the health scale. Explanations, causes, affects, facts are not inherently "excuses"

Excuse- attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify. Mental health doesn't rid people of blame, people try to rid people of blame.

The last line in my previous point was not rhetorical.
 
kizzaboo said:
Say that three times and click your heels. Its a real thing and it doesn't justify people doing things that we would deem wrong as a society. "Mental illness" is the ****ty end of a the health scale. The same way my Kidneys could be in the ****ty end of the health scale. Explanations, causes, affects, facts are not inherently "excuses"

Excuse- attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify. Mental health doesn't rid people of blame, people try to rid people of blame.

The last line in my previous point was not rhetorical.
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So, anyone is exused in anything then because of "Mental health"?
 
Well, there is the insanity defense. So yes, in court at least, anyone can be excused of anything due to their mental health problems. Great isn't it!
 
tl77 said:
Well, there is the insanity defense. So yes, in court at least, anyone can be excused of anything due to their mental health problems. Great isn't it!
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Nobody is really at fault, are they?

Somebody'd grandand got a stone droped on him by some caveman and that's that.

Let there be mental illness for ALL my men!

*Sweeps hand*
 
I agree with you goon.

my take...and I have said it before, is that yes, he may well have a mental illness. But, and here is the issue.

1. During his growing years, did his parents not see a single sign that there was an issue with his mental stability?
2. He is a big man, and probably was a big kid when at primary school or high school, and more than likely wasnt picked on due to his size, BUT, did he not display any issues at all to his school mates, teachers, coaches, class mates that made then think either he had no ticker, was weak willed, and not able to stand up for himself?
3. He goes to stanford Uni. A quality institution no doubt. Did he not display ANY kind of weakness to anyone during training drills, did a defensive lineman never evier get in his face on the filed, in the locker room? I find that VERY hard to believe.
4. he gets drafted 2nd round. Was touted as a 1st rounder leading right up too the draft, and falls into Miami's lap (YAY). Were there no red flags at all in the 22 years of being on this planet that indicated that he had mental issues?
5. He seeked help by walking out of the team and went straight to the media. I have been bullied. I was called a nasty name. And now he plays the mental illness issue.

mental illness is real, I know. depression is real. i know. Picking up dead kids, dragging dead bodies from car wrecks. Pulling dead bodies out of house fires. Cutting people down who hung themselves. That causes mental anguish. i know. But being called a ******, yes, its insulting, its derogatory, but being depressed over it, i think is a beat up.

Why. Because he is not good enough to be a quality player in an average team. he realised that he was ordinary. his paypacket will likely be far less than he expected and he is depressed over those reasons. He gave as much as he got in the text messages from RI, but he is the victim because of issues that he has with his ability. He was happy to stand up and give the verbal tirade back to RI, but he claims to be the victim, and it sounds like ted Wells bought it hook line and sinker.

But he has a mental illness. Apparently. If you really are sick JM, you should have gone to seek medical assistance by what ever other means available rather than bleating about your victimisation to the media. You have zero credibility, which is worse than zero ability.
 
Buff said:
I agree with you goon.

my take...and I have said it before, is that yes, he may well have a mental illness. But, and here is the issue.

1. During his growing years, did his parents not see a single sign that there was an issue with his mental stability?
2. He is a big man, and probably was a big kid when at primary school or high school, and more than likely wasnt picked on due to his size, BUT, did he not display any issues at all to his school mates, teachers, coaches, class mates that made then think either he had no ticker, was weak willed, and not able to stand up for himself?
3. He goes to stanford Uni. A quality institution no doubt. Did he not display ANY kind of weakness to anyone during training drills, did a defensive lineman never evier get in his face on the filed, in the locker room? I find that VERY hard to believe.
4. he gets drafted 2nd round. Was touted as a 1st rounder leading right up too the draft, and falls into Miami's lap (YAY). Were there no red flags at all in the 22 years of being on this planet that indicated that he had mental issues?
5. He seeked help by walking out of the team and went straight to the media. I have been bullied. I was called a nasty name. And now he plays the mental illness issue.

mental illness is real, I know. depression is real. i know. Picking up dead kids, dragging dead bodies from car wrecks. Pulling dead bodies out of house fires. Cutting people down who hung themselves. That causes mental anguish. i know. But being called a ******, yes, its insulting, its derogatory, but being depressed over it, i think is a beat up.

Why. Because he is not good enough to be a quality player in an average team. he realised that he was ordinary. his paypacket will likely be far less than he expected and he is depressed over those reasons. He gave as much as he got in the text messages from RI, but he is the victim because of issues that he has with his ability. He was happy to stand up and give the verbal tirade back to RI, but he claims to be the victim, and it sounds like ted Wells bought it hook line and sinker.

But he has a mental illness. Apparently. If you really are sick JM, you should have gone to seek medical assistance by what ever other means available rather than bleating about your victimisation to the media. You have zero credibility, which is worse than zero ability.
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1. During his growing years, did his parents not see a single sign that there was an issue with his mental stability?
2. He is a big man, and probably was a big kid when at primary school or high school, and more than likely wasnt picked on due to his size, BUT, did he not display any issues at all to his school mates, teachers, coaches, class mates that made then think either he had no ticker, was weak willed, and not able to stand up for himself?

Thank you for being the first one other than me to say it.

His parents...........Ivy, both of them.....Had NOOoooooooooooooooooooo Idea
that their son might've been assed up?

I mean...We're to be taught that Ivy Leauge......I mean.....

*Wow*

Let's all point and laugh.
 
GoonBoss said:
So, anyone is exused in anything then because of "Mental health"?
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I'm not excusing anything. However, it helps to explain it. Some mental health disorders like depression and bipolar disorder can be readily treated with medication and good support from friends, family, etc. However, some other mental health issues are difficult to treat.
Some don't surface until people hit their early/mid 20's. It appears that Jmart had some depression while at Stanford but it became a lot more pronounced in Miami. His parents were very concerned about him and Wells interviewed them both in the course of the investigation. His parents were clearly supportive and concerned from the references in the report.
He is a bright guy who succeeded in sport to enable him to play at a high level in college and get drafted in the second round by Miami. He came from wealthy parents, he had the best education and yet if you read the report it is clear from the texts that he knows there is something wrong with his brain chemistry. He was struggling on the field and he lacked real friends off the field. The Dolphins referred him to an 84 year old psychiatrist (probably semi-retired) who invited him over for BBQ. The 84 year old guy had helped the Dolphins in the past (maybe back in the Shula days). But this just goes to show how out of touch Ireland or Head Trainer, Kevin O'Neill were to be seeking help in such a low key way as BBQ with the 84 year old.
You are right. Martin is weak, but serious depression can be overcome with help. Martin needed some intensive therapy sessions from someone more appropriate. He needed to be on the right anti-depressant and he needed some friends away from the team. Lots of time with Richie Incognito and drugs, alcohol and strippers were not a panacea.
He says that he wants to play the game, but it will be interesting if any GM or coach will be really open to give him a chance.
We never saw him play to the expectations, but that doesn't mean he is incapable.
 
spiketex said:
I'm not excusing anything. However, it helps to explain it. Some mental health disorders like depression and bipolar disorder can be readily treated with medication and good support from friends, family, etc. However, some other mental health issues are difficult to treat.
Some don't surface until people hit their early/mid 20's. It appears that Jmart had some depression while at Stanford but it became a lot more pronounced in Miami. His parents were very concerned about him and Wells interviewed them both in the course of the investigation. His parents were clearly supportive and concerned from the references in the report.
He is a bright guy who succeeded in sport to enable him to play at a high level in college and get drafted in the second round by Miami. He came from wealthy parents, he had the best education and yet if you read the report it is clear from the texts that he knows there is something wrong with his brain chemistry. He was struggling on the field and he lacked real friends off the field. The Dolphins referred him to an 84 year old psychiatrist (probably semi-retired) who invited him over for BBQ. The 84 year old guy had helped the Dolphins in the past (maybe back in the Shula days). But this just goes to show how out of touch Ireland or Head Trainer, Kevin O'Neill were to be seeking help in such a low key way as BBQ with the 84 year old.
You are right. Martin is weak, but serious depression can be overcome with help. Martin needed some intensive therapy sessions from someone more appropriate. He needed to be on the right anti-depressant and he needed some friends away from the team. Lots of time with Richie Incognito and drugs, alcohol and strippers were not a panacea.
He says that he wants to play the game, but it will be interesting if any GM or coach will be really open to give him a chance.
We never saw him play to the expectations, but that doesn't mean he is incapable.
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I have no idea what you said there.
 
BTW GoonBoss you realize that the two people conversing with you are Buff and myself. We are about the only two serious Australian Dolphin fans on the planet.
 
Martin doesn't deserve a street moniker like jmart. He's not mentally ill imo just mentally weak. Really quite a pathetic human being. Rather than just realize his lack of ability and walk away he took down others to try to cover for the fact that he was a crap football player. I have zero compassion for what he went through. IMO he brought it on himself by allowing others to intimidate him and dominate him. He made our whole franchise look like we don't know what the hell we're doing. I just want this guy to go away, far away and never come back. Nice #2 pick by Ireland. How did that one work out for you Jeff? I hope Hickey drafts men that come in and play the game like men, not coddled children. I think any team that permits him on their roster is crazy. He should be banished from football and go work in a flower shop or something. I don't like Incog much either but if some other team wants him that's their business. IMO he's out of control and not very smart. As a result of this garbage we need 4 new o-linemen. That's if Pouncey doesn't get suspended, then we'll need 5. Thanks Martin, thanks Incog and Ireland! All losers.
 
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