My Take On RI/JM (If Tired Of The Situation Don't Read) | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

My Take On RI/JM (If Tired Of The Situation Don't Read)

The bottom line is he lost his job and broke down. He brought the whole team down because he's a Mental Midget
 
One thing that probably should be said is that it's becoming very clear the locker room at Stanford (and at BYU, according to Denney) was very different from the Dolphins clubhouse. It's quite possible that Martin's mental issues were well in check at Stanford, but triggered and exacerbated by the drugs, vulgarity, etc. that were way beyond his previous experiences.

Btw, I'm not excusing the guy. I don't believe in making rules that protect the 1% at the expense of the 99. But having had some experience with mentally ill/fragile people (haven't we all?), I know there are no easy, pat answers, and it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor or athletic or not, the brain is a difficult (maybe impossible) thing to manage. And trite advice like "man up" or "grow a pair" (which I'm sure Martin told himself hundreds of times) are obviously not very helpful (other than allowing us backseat psychologists the luxury of assigning blame to a convenient place).
 
GoonBoss said:
So, anyone is exused in anything then because of "Mental health"?
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Read what I posted one more time. I said that it doesnt excuse anyone of anything. The same way you are not excused for you ignorance when it comes to anything and everything concerning psychology or neuroscience and for not reading the report. Yet you continue to spout simplistic idealistic philosophy on how very complex beings make decisions without reading the report or make any meaningful attempt to understand at a basic level what "mental illness" or depression is and how it affects a persons psyche. JM made poor decisions, nothing changes that fact. Many people did but there are explanations as to why people do what they do. Knowing why something happened is not "excusing" anything
 
Buff said:
I agree with you goon.

my take...and I have said it before, is that yes, he may well have a mental illness. But, and here is the issue.

1. During his growing years, did his parents not see a single sign that there was an issue with his mental stability?
2. He is a big man, and probably was a big kid when at primary school or high school, and more than likely wasnt picked on due to his size, BUT, did he not display any issues at all to his school mates, teachers, coaches, class mates that made then think either he had no ticker, was weak willed, and not able to stand up for himself?
3. He goes to stanford Uni. A quality institution no doubt. Did he not display ANY kind of weakness to anyone during training drills, did a defensive lineman never evier get in his face on the filed, in the locker room? I find that VERY hard to believe.
4. he gets drafted 2nd round. Was touted as a 1st rounder leading right up too the draft, and falls into Miami's lap (YAY). Were there no red flags at all in the 22 years of being on this planet that indicated that he had mental issues?
5. He seeked help by walking out of the team and went straight to the media. I have been bullied. I was called a nasty name. And now he plays the mental illness issue.

mental illness is real, I know. depression is real. i know. Picking up dead kids, dragging dead bodies from car wrecks. Pulling dead bodies out of house fires. Cutting people down who hung themselves. That causes mental anguish. i know. But being called a ******, yes, its insulting, its derogatory, but being depressed over it, i think is a beat up.

Why. Because he is not good enough to be a quality player in an average team. he realised that he was ordinary. his paypacket will likely be far less than he expected and he is depressed over those reasons. He gave as much as he got in the text messages from RI, but he is the victim because of issues that he has with his ability. He was happy to stand up and give the verbal tirade back to RI, but he claims to be the victim, and it sounds like ted Wells bought it hook line and sinker.

But he has a mental illness. Apparently. If you really are sick JM, you should have gone to seek medical assistance by what ever other means available rather than bleating about your victimisation to the media. You have zero credibility, which is worse than zero ability.
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1. Its very possible his parents did not see a single thing. Depression isnt like some sort of schizophrenia where the onset is obvious. A lot of people learn to hide depression and often times the onset is not childhood that is pretty rare.

4. The reason he fell to the 2nd round was because many teams didnt believe he was mentally strong enough to be taken earlier. Some teams didnt have him on their board.

5. That is JM's bad. He handled the whole thing poorly. Although this doesnt mean he was playing any sort of card like you are implying.

I agree with you he should have done something. No one is saying he shouldnt have and I for one think he deserves his share of the blame.
 
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jnewmant said:
I agree, but like i said earlier, men just aren't men anymore. every generation gets weaker and weaker and if you read the report you see that martin is an overgrown mamas boy with some sort of mental illness, and obviously those two traits and a locker room atmosphere mix about as well as oil and water. At this point I just hope he's gone. I hope we trade him for as much as we can get and move on. I'm honestly not sure if we can cut him because I don't know if that would give him some grounds to sue. I just want to be rid of the pantywaste
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There you go, there is where the problem is, he is playing in the NFL, in a locker-room of MEN that will tease, will make horrible remarks at times, and even will kid around or make/play very horrible jokes (Martin was even part of a joke on a teammate, when his car was moves somewhere else, to give the impression of it being stolen).

If Martin thought he could not handle that type of atmosphere, he should never have allowed himself to be drafted into the NFL. He had a top education, from a top university, he could/should have searched other areas to make a living (Do not know what his major was) and would have been much healthier for him.
 
spiketex said:
GoonBoss - I read the report. It even got into the detail of J-mart locking himself in a toilet crying for 30 minutes while on a yacht. The guy does have serious depression issues and the suicidal stuff was not a joke. You can dismiss it as nothing but most therapists would say that there is a problem (and it can be treated with the right medication).
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Then that falls on his family, and more accurately his parents. If they did not know he was suffering from such depression, then they were to busy to realize, and if they knew, but allowed him to go into the lions den known as the NFL without talking to him, then they royally messed up and failed their son.
 
Buff said:
He goes to stanford Uni. A quality institution no doubt. Did he not display ANY kind of weakness to anyone during training drills, did a defensive lineman never evier get in his face on the filed, in the locker room? I find that VERY hard to believe.
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Bingo. You think Captain Comeback did not make JM cry a time or 19?
 
GoonBoss said:
I've not read the report, nor do I intend to. Maybe this is just
a bit of a rant, or maybe a slight clarification. You decide.

I don't consider Jonothan Martin a man. Because in my opinion he's not. Men step up to a situation, and handle it.
"Guys' don't. Guys stand in the background, watching the world go by and, won't ever lift a finger to take or save
what is theirs. "Bullying" is certainly real. But as with most issues that face society, it can be easially dealt with.

Other OLmen inside the locker room told RI to get ****ed when he came insisting on money.
Know what? RI stopped ****ing with them. Know why? Because they stood up for themselves.
Maybe I'm older school. I was a victim at one point in my life. It wasn't fun, and one day I decided
I wasn't going to tolerate it any more.

Here's my story; I grew up in a rural town in NC. Black kids were constantly shaking me down for money, pretty
much for years. I lived in one of those "Old south" towns where the sides of town were literally divided
by the "Tracks". We called the other side "******town". Well, I was obviously singled out, because
I got constantly ****ed with until my freshman year of HS. I finally turned around one day and said

"No"

The black kid that was shaking me down made a threat about what he'd do to collect, and
I told him to go ahead and try it. He said he'd get his freinds, and I'd find out. Well, just about that
time a fifth year senior (Yes, fifth year senior in HS) named Russell Struck rolled up on my side and
said ; "You bring anyone you want".

Times were pretty racially charged then, but even then, the white kids weren't going to embrace
a weak willed kid. All I had to do was stand up for myself ONE time, and all of a sudden the weight of
the world was off my shoulders. Ever since then I've been of the same philosiphy. I can't TELL you
how or when or why to stand up for yourself, but god damnit, just STAND UP!

You don't have to snitch. That's just wrong unless it's something that is totally contrary to
the code. For me, that would be, say, bringing in a cell phone or stuff for a crook from the outside.
I'd tell on that in a heartbeat. It's not even a question.

For ****s sakes....Just handle your own problems. I had an excuse. I was just a kid. JM is of an
age where other young men his age are L/CPLs, SGTs, and SSGs. They lead other young Soldiers and
Marines and have power over life and death in the face of combat.

He has no excuse.

I find what RI did to that staffer with a golf club FAR more serious than anything he did to
JM. He should have been fired for it at the least. When you pick on someone who can't
help themselves, you are a bully. JM could've helped himself.

He just chose not to.
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My comments on this are just a couple things, one, is that Martin stayed on the team and suffered, and didn't file a complaint, because he didn't want to snitch.

The other observation I'll make, is that it seems to me that lots of behavior seems excusable and understandable, no matter how bad or outrageous or destructive it is, if it falls on the side of manhood. All other behavior is not understood or sympathized with. That's the current cultural climate.

But if you just stop and think about it, if we don't expect Richie and his buddies to change their minds, or their behavior, then why do we expect Martin to? What makes Martin so super-empowered to change who he is, and make himself not an introvert, or not needing the approval of others, or not minding that he has an abusive best friend? Why couldn't his mentor, who was over 30 with no significant other, and no children, and no real life, inspire Martin to be "a man?"
 
HoneyB said:
My comments on this are just a couple things, one, is that Martin stayed on the team and suffered, and didn't file a complaint, because he didn't want to snitch.

The other observation I'll make, is that it seems to me that lots of behavior seems excusable and understandable, no matter how bad or outrageous or destructive it is, if it falls on the side of manhood. All other behavior is not understood or sympathized with. That's the current cultural climate.

But if you just stop and think about it, if we don't expect Richie and his buddies to change their minds, or their behavior, then why do we expect Martin to? What makes Martin so super-empowered to change who he is, and make himself not an introvert, or not needing the approval of others, or not minding that he has an abusive best friend? Why couldn't his mentor, who was over 30 with no significant other, and no children, and no real life, inspire Martin to be "a man?"
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He had every opportunity to make the problem go away and he was too weak to do so.

I envy him in a way. If I try to handle my issues with a guy at work by fighting him, I'm going
to get fired. In the NFL, fighting is considered a good thing, if not encouraged. That's probably
what RI was trying to get him to do. Stand up for himself like a man, instead of like a little girl.
 
tay0365 said:
Then that falls on his family, and more accurately his parents. If they did not know he was suffering from such depression, then they were to busy to realize, and if they knew, but allowed him to go into the lions den known as the NFL without talking to him, then they royally messed up and failed their son.
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I would completely agree. He's had nothing but a life of priviledge, and access to every
advantage. I reserve my pity for kids from say, Liberty City that don't have a dad, as opposed
to soft, weak willed rich kids.
 
utahphinsfan said:
Bingo. You think Captain Comeback did not make JM cry a time or 19?
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Apparently Luck and Jmart are good friends. He played well at Stanford and was well regarded by his teammates. He didn't have a problem with a demanding college coach, in Harbaugh and Harbaugh didn't have a problem with him.
There is a step up in difficulty going from college to the NFL, but Jonathan's problems were really in Miami. He was struggling on the field and in the locker room.
 
BTW - Martin was sifted out and RI too is going to get sifted out of the NFL - the shifting sands of the NFL and societies tolerance will be too much for RI to keep up with - this isn't the NFL of ten years ago

Being sifted out is what happens when you don't produce - if you are uber valuable they'll keep your spot open for you to return
 
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