No illusions... Not there yet. | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

No illusions... Not there yet.

NBP81

NBP81

Its what you know for sure... that just aint so...
Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
16,700
Reaction score
40,932
Location
Montreal
This loss feels redundant... I dont know about you but I felt it was coming, deep down, this is so Dolphins right?

Needless to say it feels like crap, but I cant help but to think its better that way. Fins sure could've scratched their way to the playoffs and make it a hollywood story, high fives flying everywhere but reality is smoke and mirrors dont win in this league. Today there was no luck, no miracles, no smoke and no mirrors, this is where the Fins are compared to the AFC east champs. Its a clear representation of what needs to be done to catch up.

Defense, what it looks like when **** dont work.

Yes the Fins have had a very good season on defense despite marginal talent a different spots. I fell the coaches did as best they could funnelling plays to their best unit, the secondary. While they were #1 in scoring D and many other important spots like 3rd down, they've been relying heavily on TOs while allowing long drives and being bottom 10 in both yards per carry and yard per passing attempts.

This defense was amazing at getting game changing INTs and fumbles, but those are sparse plays and they will need to adress the underliying issues to complement them. As we've seen today, when they dont get them in chunks, the floodgates open.

Offense, we dont have one.

Clearly the Fins decided to build the defense 1st in this project. Basically no FA money was allocated to offense except for the interior OL, and most of the high end draft capital on offense went to the OL. That really doesnt scream instant results, and un-surprisingly instant results were not there. Injuries and opts outs havent helped, but it just emphasized the real lack of firepower here. None!

This receiving group is redundant and underwhelming. A bunch of tall guys who dont separate but jump very high, all of different skill level, of course, but the point remains. For example, Ford should be a backup to Williams who should be a backup to Parker.... Only one of these type of guys should be on the field at any moment. Of cousrse with the injuries its been even worse, we're dealing with former college QBs and RBs rookies who, for the most part are doing as best they can, but it doesnt make it a valid NFL squad.

I intentionally started with the skill positions because thats what's making everything else so hard to evaluate. If you ask me about Gailey, I have no ****ing clue to be honest...? Yeah the playcalling sucks, I was ready to fire him right after the 1st half, 2nd half was much better but this is where it gets tricky. We're really, REALLY asking Gailey to make chicken salad out of chicken **** here, is Gailey calling the 1st half the way he did because he can see the practice squad players dropping balls all week in practice and he knows where it leads?

Im not much of an XOs guy, the playcalling did look better in the 2nd (although I've heard Chan wasnt calling the plays anymore at that point) but its obvious that the Fins are lacking serious talent on offense, and quite frankly, it might be just to much to overcome with scheme alone.

Coach Flores, overall strategy, A+

I think coach Flores did an amazing job getting 10 wins for the Fins... He realized early on where the team strenght was(CBs), created a strategy on defense to drive plays to that unit(39.8% blitz, 3rd in NFL) and reap rewards through his all pro CB Howard. Using this strategy meant he had to run a no mistake offense and capitalize on the D's game changing plays. And it's not like he had any other choice on offense any way.

I really dont see any other way the Fins win 10 games this season except for that exact way.

I'm not going to comment on the QB position as I dont see a change on the way and quite frankly, I'd love to have at least one thread on the main not about the QB. If you do want my opinion on the QB, feel free to tag me in another thread.
 
The investment in defense worked out. Kyle Van Noy showed people how to play this defense, and was a cornerstone of success. Emmanuel Ogbah proved to be a great investment. Adding Byron Jones was a fantastic move as he brought a healthy lock-down CB and even chipped in with a couple of INT's, while pushing QB's over to test Xavien Howard--who ended up with double-digit INT's as I predicted he had the potential to get with Jones opposite him. Now our defense has won most of our games, and proven to be a very good defense. We have players of all age ranges with veterans like Van Noy, players in their prime like Ogbah, Howard and Jones, and a core of good youngsters like Wilkins, Van Ginkel and Baker. Coach Flo finally delivered on his promise of a strong multiple front defense.

On offense we had an outstanding year from our tremendous TE group, with Gesicki having a break-out year, Shaheen proving the potential he had when he was drafted, and Smythe really contributing all around as well as being the leader in that room. Our OL had a breakthrough year as our OL coach got quality contributions from all three rookies--Jackson, Kindley and even Hunt, while also coalescing together veterans like Karras and Flowers to give us a pretty productive OL on the whole compared to most years here in Miami. What's more, our OL really looks poised to improve and succeed moving forward. We managed to get good performances from both QB's, one of which was a rookie. Then our WR corps--despite Albert Wilson and Allen Hurns declining to play from fear of Covid--managed another true #1 year from DaVante Parker, survived the Preston Williams injury and got quality contributions from Jakeem Grant and even Mack Hollins, as well as rookies Lynn Bowden Jr. and Malcolm Perry. We had some contributions from others (including Antonio Calloway and Isaiah Ford) who weren't even here for most of the year.

All in all, we saw a LOT of player development from this staff in 2020. IMHO, we're poised to succeed in 2021 and have laid a solid foundation to become a playoff contender for the next decade. Bolstered with another treasure trove of picks this draft ... the future looks bright.
 
The consensus at the beginning of the year was that year 2 after gutting the roster was still a work in progress and many people thought 8-8 was the ceiling. Well we finished 10-6 with a journeyman QB and rookie QB spitting time and at times with the saddest collection if receiving "threats" since the days of Booker and Ginn Jr. Flores once again exceeded what many thought we would be able to do but we still need playmakers on both sides to push this team to the next level. We need WR's to help Tua and a stud pass rusher to help our inconsistent rush because I could have sworn I saw Allen filing his taxes at one point with the amount of time he had.
 
First I think the Dolphins needs to figure out what the abberation was. The defense's play most of the season, or the defenses play today? If it turns out the D is fine and this was just a historically bad game, I think the Dolphin's next problem is do they actually have a QB or not? How many times have my team (Bills) and yours thought they had their guy, only for it to all be an illusion? Are you really sold that Tua is going to slot into a group that includes (playoff Qbs this year) Rogers, Russ, Goff, Brees, Brady, Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, Tannehill, Big Ben, Baker, Rivers? Or is he going to be more of a Trubisky or 2020 Alex Smith that can maybe not get in the rest of the team's way if they have a good season and back into the playoffs? I'm not taking a position one way or another, you all watch him more, but have you seen or believe Tua can display the ability of that first group of QBs? If not, then you don't really have your guy.
 
superphin said:
The consensus at the beginning of the year was that year 2 after gutting the roster was still a work in progress and many people thought 8-8 was the ceiling. Well we finished 10-6 with a journeyman QB and rookie QB spitting time and at times with the saddest collection if receiving "threats" since the days of Booker and Ginn Jr. Flores once again exceeded what many thought we would be able to do but we still need playmakers on both sides to push this team to the next level. We need WR's to help Tua and a stud pass rusher to help our inconsistent rush because I could have sworn I saw Allen filing his taxes at one point with the amount of time he had.
Click to expand...
I agree, receiving options and pass rush alone who do wonders for this team.
 
theK00LaidMAN said:
First I think the Dolphins needs to figure out what the abberation was. The defense's play most of the season, or the defenses play today? If it turns out the D is fine and this was just a historically bad game, I think the Dolphin's next problem is do they actually have a QB or not? How many times have my team (Bills) and yours thought they had their guy, only for it to all be an illusion? Are you really sold that Tua is going to slot into a group that includes (playoff Qbs this year) Rogers, Russ, Goff, Brees, Brady, Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, Tannehill, Big Ben, Baker, Rivers? Or is he going to be more of a Trubisky or 2020 Alex Smith that can maybe not get in the rest of the team's way if they have a good season and back into the playoffs? I'm not taking a position one way or another, you all watch him more, but have you seen or believe Tua can display the ability of that first group of QBs? If not, then you don't really have your guy.
Click to expand...
Sorry no QB talk here... trust me, you have plenty of options out there if thats what you want to talk about...

**Tua discussion super thread**

They loved herbert and he just broke the NFL rookie passing td record. And what good defense did he actually beat this year?
finheaven.com finheaven.com
 
theK00LaidMAN said:
First I think the Dolphins needs to figure out what the abberation was. The defense's play most of the season, or the defenses play today? If it turns out the D is fine and this was just a historically bad game, I think the Dolphin's next problem is do they actually have a QB or not? How many times have my team (Bills) and yours thought they had their guy, only for it to all be an illusion? Are you really sold that Tua is going to slot into a group that includes (playoff Qbs this year) Rogers, Russ, Goff, Brees, Brady, Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, Tannehill, Big Ben, Baker, Rivers? Or is he going to be more of a Trubisky or 2020 Alex Smith that can maybe not get in the rest of the team's way if they have a good season and back into the playoffs? I'm not taking a position one way or another, you all watch him more, but have you seen or believe Tua can display the ability of that first group of QBs? If not, then you don't really have your guy.
Click to expand...
Good thoughts actually.
I think offense and defense need upgrades. I think a lot of defense success was scheme. Need more players. Offense. They were terrible. Need more players too
 
NBP81 said:
This loss feels redundant... I dont know about you but I felt it was coming, deep down, this is so Dolphins right?

Needless to say it feels like crap, but I cant help but to think its better that way. Fins sure could've scratched their way to the playoffs and make it a hollywood story, high fives flying everywhere but reality is smoke and mirrors dont win in this league. Today there was no luck, no miracles, no smoke and no mirrors, this is where the Fins are compared to the AFC east champs. Its a clear representation of what needs to be done to catch up.

Defense, what it looks like when **** dont work.

Yes the Fins have had a very good season on defense despite marginal talent a different spots. I fell the coaches did as best they could funnelling plays to their best unit, the secondary. While they were #1 in scoring D and many other important spots like 3rd down, they've been relying heavily on TOs while allowing long drives and being bottom 10 in both yards per carry and yard per passing attempts.

This defense was amazing at getting game changing INTs and fumbles, but those are sparse plays and they will need to adress the underliying issues to complement them. As we've seen today, when they dont get them in chunks, the floodgates open.

Offense, we dont have one.

Clearly the Fins decided to build the defense 1st in this project. Basically no FA money was allocated to offense except for the interior OL, and most of the high end draft capital on offense went to the OL. That really doesnt scream instant results, and un-surprisingly instant results were not there. Injuries and opts outs havent helped, but it just emphasized the real lack of firepower here. None!

This receiving group is redundant and underwhelming. A bunch of tall guys who dont separate but jump very high, all of different skill level, of course, but the point remains. For example, Ford should be a backup to Williams who should be a backup to Parker.... Only one of these type of guys should be on the field at any moment. Of cousrse with the injuries its been even worse, we're dealing with former college QBs and RBs rookies who, for the most part are doing as best they can, but it doesnt make it a valid NFL squad.

I intentionally started with the skill positions because thats what's making everything else so hard to evaluate. If you ask me about Gailey, I have no ****ing clue to be honest...? Yeah the playcalling sucks, I was ready to fire him right after the 1st half, 2nd half was much better but this is where it gets tricky. We're really, REALLY asking Gailey to make chicken salad out of chicken **** here, is Gailey calling the 1st half the way he did because he can see the practice squad players dropping balls all week in practice and he knows where it leads?

Im not much of an XOs guy, the playcalling did look better in the 2nd (although I've heard Chan wasnt calling the plays anymore at that point) but its obvious that the Fins are lacking serious talent on offense, and quite frankly, it might be just to much to overcome with scheme alone.

Coach Flores, overall strategy, A+

I think coach Flores did an amazing job getting 10 wins for the Fins... He realized early on where the team strenght was(CBs), created a strategy on defense to drive plays to that unit(39.8% blitz, 3rd in NFL) and reap rewards through his all pro CB Howard. Using this strategy meant he had to run a no mistake offense and capitalize on the D's game changing plays. And it's not like he had any other choice on offense any way.

I really dont see any other way the Fins win 10 games this season except for that exact way.

I'm not going to comment on the QB position as I dont see a change on the way and quite frankly, I'd love to have at least one thread on the main not about the QB. If you do want my opinion on the QB, feel free to tag me in another thread.
Click to expand...
Great write up. We lost but we’re still way ahead of schedule. A month back I made a thread about our defense getting by on smoke and mirrors and it threw posters into a tizzy. They thought we had this SB defense. And all I said the way we were playing D it wouldn’t be sustainable, and it wasn’t. All I said was that sooner or later we needed to get pressure from our front four without blitzing all the time. That didn’t sit well with some. Oh well, now they saw it today.

WRs are putrid and same goes to Parker. Parker would be a great 3 for us. He’s not a 1 or 2. I want Preston gone, he can’t catch and can’t stay healthy and can’t hold up a roster spot. Only two guys we can make an argument for being on the roster next season are Parker and Bowden. The rest...good riddance.

Would like Gaskins, but again as a third option. I would really like a run heavy offense that controls the clock and wears down defenses late in games. I still believe you can win that way as long as your defense is stout. Can’t believe I just said that because I love passing offenses but I think Tua would thrive in that kind of offense.

I don’t want to criticize our QB because I wanna see him have a full preseason and win the starting job outright. 10 games just is not a barometer with the lack of talent.

We built this the correct way, from the inside out, built the house foundation first. We need to shore up the OLine and we need a young tenacious DE who can get pressure

Flores knows what he’s doing. There’s a reason he threw Tua to the wolves this year. Everything he does has a purpose
 
EasyRider said:
Great write up. We lost but we’re still way ahead of schedule. A month back I made a thread about our defense getting by on smoke and mirrors and it threw posters into a tizzy. They thought we had this SB defense. And all I said the way we were playing D it wouldn’t be sustainable, and it wasn’t. All I said was that sooner or later we needed to get pressure from our front four without blitzing all the time. That didn’t sit well with some. Oh well, now they saw it today.

WRs are putrid and same goes to Parker. Parker would be a great 3 for us. He’s not a 1 or 2. I want Preston gone, he can’t catch and can’t stay healthy and can’t hold up a roster spot. Only two guys we can make an argument for being on the roster next season are Parker and Bowden. The rest...good riddance.

Would like Gaskins, but again as a third option. I would really like a run heavy offense that controls the clock and wears down defenses late in games. I still believe you can win that way as long as your defense is stout. Can’t believe I just said that because I love passing offenses but I think Tua would thrive in that kind of offense.

I don’t want to criticize our QB because I wanna see him have a full preseason and win the starting job outright. 10 games just is not a barometer with the lack of talent.

We built this the correct way, from the inside out, built the house foundation first. We need to shore up the OLine and we need a young tenacious DE who can get pressure

Flores knows what he’s doing. There’s a reason he threw Tua to the wolves this year. Everything he does has a purpose
Click to expand...
Yes! I remember that thread... I agree still work to be done on D, but offense is mission critical.
 
NBP81 said:
Yes! I remember that thread... I agree still work to be done on D, but offense is mission critical.
Click to expand...
Don’t know how far back you go, but in the 80s the Browns had two bruising backs Byner and Mack, both ran for a 1000 yards. Would love to see us bring in option A and option B next year. I think Tua would have a field day with run pass option plays
 
I'm a huge Flores fan and I hope he sticks around for a long while. A RB threat is badly needed on this team. I mean a big, fast powerful downhill runner who puts fear into opposing defenses. I don't know if Najee Harris is someone on the Dolphin's radar but he should be. This guy is awesome and the D has to account for him on every play. Then snag a pair of receivers and one FA receiver. QB play will be much easier with those kind of weapons.
 
It's still just so mind-blowing that they would draft a cb with the 3rd first-rounder last time. And the fact that he was such a reach makes it even more ridiculous. Maybe he develops into a good player in time, maybe he's a total bust, but we could've had the RB spot already settled by drafting Dobbins or Taylor in that spot. And Jackson has been okay so far but he was also a reach and if they wanted to trade up a couple of spots they could have undoubtedly added CeeDee Lamb last time as well. The skill positions would already have been set and had a year's experience behind them. And those two would have probably been the difference in us making the playoffs this season.

This is why I have little confidence that even with the high picks again this coming draft that we'll make the right decisions.
 
EasyRider said:
Don’t know how far back you go, but in the 80s the Browns had two bruising backs Byner and Mack, both ran for a 1000 yards. Would love to see us bring in option A and option B next year. I think Tua would have a field day with run pass option plays
Click to expand...
Sorry, no.
Those days are over. Today's NFL is gearing for passing.
These are the four most important positions
QB
Players that can get to QB
Players who catch, whether wr or TE like Kelce
Players who can stop the catchers.

Its really not that complicated.
 
superphin said:
The consensus at the beginning of the year was that year 2 after gutting the roster was still a work in progress and many people thought 8-8 was the ceiling. Well we finished 10-6 with a journeyman QB and rookie QB spitting time and at times with the saddest collection if receiving "threats" since the days of Booker and Ginn Jr. Flores once again exceeded what many thought we would be able to do but we still need playmakers on both sides to push this team to the next level. We need WR's to help Tua and a stud pass rusher to help our inconsistent rush because I could have sworn I saw Allen filing his taxes at one point with the amount of time he had.
Click to expand...
Some won’t let go that this was the poorest group of receiving threats in the league but I would package the lot and trade the WRs Te and backs with anyone in the NFL and come out ahead even the Patriots and Jets have better threats

The Jags are way out in front of us too with Offensive threats
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom