Offseason Issues

[Dolphins17-0]

Hey guys, just became a registered user today, have been browsing for quite some time, and i have some more free time on my hands so i thought i'd start posting here.
I know there have been several threads on the Offseason/draft already, but I wanted to organize my own thoughts on everything i've read on here and researched and see what you guys thought about which is the best option for us.

First of all, i think we should address the offesnsive line:
--Resign jamie nails, he was amazing in '02 and was a pro bowl alternate, only because no one really knew him, and he had that injury, otherwise he probably goes as a starter. Granted he was average at best this year, but an ACL is usually a two year injury. Not to mention he showed the work ethic to drop all that weight when he first came here, and hes 28 years old which is not terrible since lineman play into there early to mid 30's now.
--I'd also like to resign Todd Wade, but if we let him go and found the money to go after one of the big name lineman free agents (Tait, Brokenmeyer, Pace?!) i would not mind.
--I also would have no qualms about seeing dixon go.
--As far as the other tackle spot, and i may get berated for saying this but...I love wade smith there. The guy is only 22 years old, already has a full nfl season under his belt, came in undersized and will put on weight in the offseason. The coaching staff loves his work ethic and he seems to be an intelligent lineman who just went through some rookie woes. 3rd round lineman arent supposed to come in and start right away, especially former tight ends converted to lineman who are undersized. I say we give him a chance, i really think he's got potential to be a mainstay for a long time with the right coaching and weight training.
--If ruddy stays at C, that's fine, i like Mckinney too, either at guard or C if we need him, maybe go after damien woody.
--all set at running back :)
--Wide Receiver: Chambers is awesome, aside from that we need help. I think it's time to part ways with mcKnight and thompson needs to take a paycut or be gone since he should move to our #3 after we draft a wide receiver and/or sign someone (Isaac Bruce, D. Jackson, Northcutt, etc...) not to mention it'd be nice to see if Tolver and/or simmons will give us anything
--TE we are fine at with randy and lee
--QB I think has to come in the draft, even if he doesn't start right away this year, i'd like to get Rivers at the 20, but more on the draft later. I'm not sure i want brunell since he would just be a stop gap and he practically had the year off.

Defensively:
Paycuts all over the place hopefully (Bowens, Taylor, Madison, Seau, Thomas, etc...) some because of poor seasons, but more because we need the money and we have good team guys who should be willing. Gotta give T-buck another year too

Heres where my biggest dilema comes in:
I love ogun, and we should free up the money to be able to resign him, but is it worth it. He's a great young end who was among the league leaders in sacks this season. The dolphins need a good line since they primarily only rush 4. Teams tried to focus on JT and had Ogun get to them this year, if they both are back next season then what do you do. Presents a mess for opposing teams. HOWEVER...

we likely lose ogun the following year anyway and
If there was ever a draft to get two number one picks in, i think it's this one. The first round talent is immense already and that's without some underclassmen declaring. Two of these guys on the offensive side of the ball would be outstanding.

Doubtful we could steal one of the big lineman, but a top WR(reggie williams?!) and QB (Phillip Rivers) would both be possible. Add that to mcmichael/lee at TE, Chambers, Ricky, the offense is set for quite some time and we could focus on getting the defense younger with later draft picks this year and future drafts.

Having said that, the WR pool is huge in this draft, if we had a second round pick we could keep ogun, get rivers/lohsman at the 20 pick and get a solid WR in the second round possibly. Which leads me to my next idea.

Any chance of us trading madsion for a second rounder and some later picks. I highly doubt anyone would give us a one due to his salary and age, but i wouldn't be surprised if someone gave us a 2 for us to get that wide receiver.

The options are really limitless right now because a bunch of players will be taking pay cuts, the free agent market is plentiful where we need help, the wide receiver list in the draft is extremely deep and we have the potential to add picks or move up.

What does everyone think is our best/most realistic option? I'm not even considering manning for the time being or charles woodson replacing madison, but it's fun to dream.
My ideal/potentially realistic draft would go something like this(ogunleye/madison/greenwood all via trade or free agency):

1st round: Reggie Williams and Rivers(other options if they are taken: Lohsman, or LB's DJ Williams, Derrick Johnson, or Karlos Dansby to pair with eddie moore when seau is done--would give us speed at LB which is crucial for nfl defenses)

2nd round(courtesy of Madison trade):Lot's of options here, if the 1st round goes as planned then i wouldnt mind teddy lehman at LB. If we get the LB instead of Rivers then we have to hope Lohsman is there. Otherwise it probably should be a DT like Lavalais or Tubbs neither of whom i'm sold on yet

3rd Round: Offensive line time: Shannon Snell/Travelle Wharton/Jacob Rogers/Tony Pape/Michael Munoz, lot's of available guys, hopefully our scouts can find the right one.

4th Round: We'll pretend the draft is going as i planned. So in the second round if we took lehman, then here we would take DT Isaac Sapoaga. If we got Tubbs or Lavalais then we go with either Josh Buhl/kendyl pope/or Pasha Jackson at OLB

5th Round: Be nice to get DE Kalen Thornton here and hope we can make something out of him so that he can help ease the loss of ogun

6th Round(Currently don't have a pick): If we got one- S- Mo Sikes or OT Will Allen
7th Round: Jason Geathers
7th Round: Punter or best available

Round up:
Lose: Ogunleye/greenwood/madison
Gain: Reggie Williams, Phillip Rivers, Teddy Lehman, Travelle Wharton(or top OL available), Isaac Sapoaga, Kalen Thornton, Jason Geathers, some other scrub who probably won't make the roster
Sign: Isaac Bruce to help groom Reggie and get a Vet on Offense, Sign an offensive lineman. Hope we can compensate for the loss of ogunleye and madison on defense somehow.

If all else fails, just sign Peyton Manning and Charles Woodson :)

Of course we could get a 1st AND 3rd for Ogun, which would change everything... hahaha, nah i'm done. Like i said, i was bored, have a lot of time on my hands on this day off. Interested to hear what you guys think if you could actually sit through all that.

 

[lotion]

Welcome. Nice 1st post. I'm with you on the Rivers kid, he's gonna be a player.

 

[Dolphins17-0]

Thanks, I've seen a lot of people are down on him(Rivers) because of his mechanics, but favre and marinos mechanics were questioned too, so if the kid can throw, let him throw.

 

[Prime Time]

Great first post and :welcome: to FH. But that is too many Ifs for my taste. Lets just see how the offseason shapes out to be shall we.

 

[canesandphins1]

if we let ogun go we get a 1 and 3 that would leave us 2 1st round picks and 2 3rd round picks use the higher to pick a qb would love the chance to draft rivers then let someone trade up for our other and gain a second round and there late first round pick and take vernon carey or another good oline man with the late first rounder we gain, use the second round pick to take a wideout ernest wilford would be nice as a big #2 receiver use the 2 3rd rounders on the dline and oline nathaniel adibi at de and jeb terry on the oline 4 round use it on a linebacker kendyll pope pasha jackson would be soild value picks 5 round could use depht at dt use it on big jordan carstens both 7 round picks are right on the money jason geather would be nice pick for a returner and wr and a punter would fill a need kyle larsons

 

[njfinfan]

I think your post was right on - informative and intelligent and I agree 100% at this point. We'll have to see how the offseason begins to shape up.

 

[finsfan4life]

Great first post. I agree with most of your statements however, no team is going to trade a second for Madison and I do not want Tim Ruddy back. Good job though.

 

[Gladsadmad]

"Hope we can compensate for the loss of ogunleye and madison on defense somehow."

I really can't agree with this thinking. Look at what happened to Buffalo this season. They had a top offense and a pitiful defense in 2002. Donahoe decided that they could afford to lose some offensive talent in order to repair the defense. I know they had injuries as well but look at the end result. Offense - 28th, Defense - 2nd.

You just can't sacrifice that much on one side to fix the other. Miami doesn't need a complete offensive overhaul. Look at the games vs. Philly and Dallas. Miami proved that they are capable of moving the ball against solid defenses when they are on top of their game. They just need some help on the OL and a more consistent QB. I will be very upset if they let O-Gun get away. It would be a big mistake.

 

[Gladsadmad]

Just imagine if Miami let Madison and Ogunleye go...then imagine if Jason Taylor and Surtain got hurt..the Dolphin defense would be a disaster. That would be equivalent to what happened to Buffalo's offense this year.

It would be 1986-1989 all over again. No thanks.

 

[Dolphins17-0]

If taylor and surtain get hurt the dolphins D is in shambles anyway. Look at it this way. We invested a lot in Jamar Fletcher so let's let him take over for madison, if it doesnt work then we have another year of T-buck and then find the fix in the offseason at CB. It's not like madison has been awesome, he's been the one getting beat most often on the deep ball and he's getting up in age, plus he would free up a lot of cap room, so i don't see his loss as that crucial.
we could get a 1 and 3 for ogun then ship madison and our extra 3 for a 2 and some later picks.

And like i said, i like ogun, but we almost definitely lose him the following year since we would only resign him for one season and then next year he would be unrestricted and teams would offer him a lot more than we can, so why not get something for him this year. If you remember, Ogun was an undrafted free agent who with the help of our defensive coaches and the double teams to jason taylor, and a lot of hard work, became a success. It's not like he's been a monster his whole playing career.
If he were to be a top DE somewhere and received all the attention, he may not be successful and it'd be an absolute steal for us to get 2 drafts picks in a deep draft and free up cap room for a guy who had one good season. Sure the risk is that he continues his current pace, goes to the bills and beats up on us twice a year, but it's a risk i'd be willing to take.

Basically i think it's easier to patch the defense up with the depth we have and the free agent market out there than the skill positions on offense. If you recall, our pass defense was prettty bad last season, with madison being a part of that and costing us 8 million dollars(way too much).

We've tried the patchwork on offense at WR and QB and it didnt work, let's try something different. You can't have stars all over the field, but were as close to any team as doing that. Defense would still be full of pro bowlers and it would even out our offense. I don't see why you guys think it's so far off base, you act like i'm sacrifing surtain, taylor and zach thomas(the core of the defense will still be there).

 

[Sir Charles]

Originally posted by Dolphins17-0
Hey guys, just became a registered user today, have been browsing for quite some time, and i have some more free time on my hands so i thought i'd start posting here.
I know there have been several threads on the Offseason/draft already, but I wanted to organize my own thoughts on everything i've read on here and researched and see what you guys thought about which is the best option for us.

First of all, i think we should address the offesnsive line:
--Resign jamie nails, he was amazing in '02 and was a pro bowl alternate, only because no one really knew him, and he had that injury, otherwise he probably goes as a starter. Granted he was average at best this year, but an ACL is usually a two year injury. Not to mention he showed the work ethic to drop all that weight when he first came here, and hes 28 years old which is not terrible since lineman play into there early to mid 30's now.
--I'd also like to resign Todd Wade, but if we let him go and found the money to go after one of the big name lineman free agents (Tait, Brokenmeyer, Pace?!) i would not mind.
--I also would have no qualms about seeing dixon go.
--As far as the other tackle spot, and i may get berated for saying this but...I love wade smith there. The guy is only 22 years old, already has a full nfl season under his belt, came in undersized and will put on weight in the offseason. The coaching staff loves his work ethic and he seems to be an intelligent lineman who just went through some rookie woes. 3rd round lineman arent supposed to come in and start right away, especially former tight ends converted to lineman who are undersized. I say we give him a chance, i really think he's got potential to be a mainstay for a long time with the right coaching and weight training.
--If ruddy stays at C, that's fine, i like Mckinney too, either at guard or C if we need him, maybe go after damien woody.
--all set at running back :)
--Wide Receiver: Chambers is awesome, aside from that we need help. I think it's time to part ways with mcKnight and thompson needs to take a paycut or be gone since he should move to our #3 after we draft a wide receiver and/or sign someone (Isaac Bruce, D. Jackson, Northcutt, etc...) not to mention it'd be nice to see if Tolver and/or simmons will give us anything
--TE we are fine at with randy and lee
--QB I think has to come in the draft, even if he doesn't start right away this year, i'd like to get Rivers at the 20, but more on the draft later. I'm not sure i want brunell since he would just be a stop gap and he practically had the year off.

Defensively:
Paycuts all over the place hopefully (Bowens, Taylor, Madison, Seau, Thomas, etc...) some because of poor seasons, but more because we need the money and we have good team guys who should be willing. Gotta give T-buck another year too

Heres where my biggest dilema comes in:
I love ogun, and we should free up the money to be able to resign him, but is it worth it. He's a great young end who was among the league leaders in sacks this season. The dolphins need a good line since they primarily only rush 4. Teams tried to focus on JT and had Ogun get to them this year, if they both are back next season then what do you do. Presents a mess for opposing teams. HOWEVER...

we likely lose ogun the following year anyway and
If there was ever a draft to get two number one picks in, i think it's this one. The first round talent is immense already and that's without some underclassmen declaring. Two of these guys on the offensive side of the ball would be outstanding.

Doubtful we could steal one of the big lineman, but a top WR(reggie williams?!) and QB (Phillip Rivers) would both be possible. Add that to mcmichael/lee at TE, Chambers, Ricky, the offense is set for quite some time and we could focus on getting the defense younger with later draft picks this year and future drafts.

Having said that, the WR pool is huge in this draft, if we had a second round pick we could keep ogun, get rivers/lohsman at the 20 pick and get a solid WR in the second round possibly. Which leads me to my next idea.

Any chance of us trading madsion for a second rounder and some later picks. I highly doubt anyone would give us a one due to his salary and age, but i wouldn't be surprised if someone gave us a 2 for us to get that wide receiver.

The options are really limitless right now because a bunch of players will be taking pay cuts, the free agent market is plentiful where we need help, the wide receiver list in the draft is extremely deep and we have the potential to add picks or move up.

What does everyone think is our best/most realistic option? I'm not even considering manning for the time being or charles woodson replacing madison, but it's fun to dream.
My ideal/potentially realistic draft would go something like this(ogunleye/madison/greenwood all via trade or free agency):

1st round: Reggie Williams and Rivers(other options if they are taken: Lohsman, or LB's DJ Williams, Derrick Johnson, or Karlos Dansby to pair with eddie moore when seau is done--would give us speed at LB which is crucial for nfl defenses)

2nd round(courtesy of Madison trade):Lot's of options here, if the 1st round goes as planned then i wouldnt mind teddy lehman at LB. If we get the LB instead of Rivers then we have to hope Lohsman is there. Otherwise it probably should be a DT like Lavalais or Tubbs neither of whom i'm sold on yet

3rd Round: Offensive line time: Shannon Snell/Travelle Wharton/Jacob Rogers/Tony Pape/Michael Munoz, lot's of available guys, hopefully our scouts can find the right one.

4th Round: We'll pretend the draft is going as i planned. So in the second round if we took lehman, then here we would take DT Isaac Sapoaga. If we got Tubbs or Lavalais then we go with either Josh Buhl/kendyl pope/or Pasha Jackson at OLB

5th Round: Be nice to get DE Kalen Thornton here and hope we can make something out of him so that he can help ease the loss of ogun

6th Round(Currently don't have a pick): If we got one- S- Mo Sikes or OT Will Allen
7th Round: Jason Geathers
7th Round: Punter or best available

Round up:
Lose: Ogunleye/greenwood/madison
Gain: Reggie Williams, Phillip Rivers, Teddy Lehman, Travelle Wharton(or top OL available), Isaac Sapoaga, Kalen Thornton, Jason Geathers, some other scrub who probably won't make the roster
Sign: Isaac Bruce to help groom Reggie and get a Vet on Offense, Sign an offensive lineman. Hope we can compensate for the loss of ogunleye and madison on defense somehow.

If all else fails, just sign Peyton Manning and Charles Woodson :)

Of course we could get a 1st AND 3rd for Ogun, which would change everything... hahaha, nah i'm done. Like i said, i was bored, have a lot of time on my hands on this day off. Interested to hear what you guys think if you could actually sit through all that.

Hey dude why steal my totally narly thoughts from my post? Lets join up and make our own my man. Cool with you dude?

 

[Dolphins17-0]

You had a similar post?
Like i said, i'm new here, not sure if i have seen it

 

[Gladsadmad]

"We've tried the patchwork on offense at WR and QB and it didnt work, let's try something different."

If Miami adds Garcia or Brunell..I don't see how that can be considered patchwork. Do you realize what effect a better QB can have on the offense? For their careers, Brunell & Garcia have a 2 to 1 td to int ratio. Think about all of those overthrows, underthrows and just plain dumb throws that Fiedler has made in 4 years and you have a ton of drives that stalled or turnovers that killed Miami's chances.

A solid QB and a couple of lineman could make Miami so much better without sacrificing much from the D. They can get this without breaking the bank. All they have to do is restructure some of those big contracts.

 

[Dolphins17-0]

Keep in mind were about 10 million over the cap as of today, which means we'd have to restructure enough to get 10 million back, then enough to tender ogunleye, and then a lot more to get the offensive line help if you have one of the big name guys in mind (pace, jones, etc...), and then again some more if we plan to bring in garcia or brunell.

Any ideas where all the money will come from? I know bowens will take a paycut, mare should but he's refused in the past, and i know some of the standup guys like taylor and thomas would, but how much will that get us to, i'd love for someone to get us the numbers, then maybe we could play around with free agent options some more.

edit: brunell and garcia are patchwork because they are a stopgap, we still need a qb for the future, they aren't QB's that will be around for a significant amount of time. Temporary solution to a permanent problem.

If it's enough to win us a SB than so be it, i just think that the draft option would give us more of a boost on offense, more depth all over, more cap room, and still enable us to sign brunell to groom the qb that we draft and help our chances. And i just look at it as losing ogunleye a year earlier since he will not be happy with the one year tender that were gonna give him if no one gives him an offer.

what happens next season if we get brunell, don't win the superbowl, then lose ogunleye to free agency since he'll be unrestricted and madison decides to hang them up after getting beat all season, and we're stuck with a weak draft class?

 

[KB21]

I like Brunell, but Garcia simply doesn't fit Norv Turner's offense. Norv needs a big arm for his offense, and Garcia doesn't bring it.

If Kerry Collins gets released in New York, then he's the QB I would pursue for this offense.