Ok, please STOP IT on the "let Jake Long walk" nuttery...

[Sirspud]

I don't think Martin played very well today, but I don't think Jake Long would play $14 million better either. My justification for wanting to see Long has nothing to do with me thinking we can't do worse, because I still remember Wade Smith, but being able to do worse is no reason to vastly overplay a guy who is going to get a contract based more on perception than reality.

We can do worse than Sean Smith too, and there's no way I'd resign him for a franchise salary either. The salary cap dictates that you only have so much resources at your disposal, and allocating a significant portion of that to something whose actual value does not approach that will simply lead to us not having enough resources to address other positions, which would be just as bad.

 

[Wildbill3]

Long... is gone.

 

[MrEd]

Ed, I defend Long about as much as you, but you have to understand that this ZBS requires a certain type of lineman and giving 10% of the cap to a lineman that doesn't really fit that scheme isn't a very smart move, especially on a team that needs to find some playmakers this offseason. Jonathan Martin is the future LT of this team. He needs to get stronger but he fits the type of LT that will be successful in this system. Miami may have to look into FA for a RT and address the guards in the draft . . . but unless Jake really gives the Fins a hometown discount . . . I don't think it's a move that has the best longterm interest of the team. Remember, Jake has been on the decline and unless I'm getting a guarantee that Jake will return to form and be fully healthy it Is really hard to cosign bringing him back at the ridiculous high number that is constantly being thrown around.

But this is still missing my point, Kdawg. Tagging him does not impede us landing those playmakers. We have over $50mil to toy around with. Then, again, its a "tag". A one year deal to first and foremost buy a year to fix the playmaker needs without creating a high priority hole til 2014, where should Long suck, the $15mil becomes available. Should he beast? You then sign him long term. It's a no brainer. Imo, this Long must go "now" is knee jerky, short sighted, and childish.

 

[roy_miami]

Ed, I defend Long about as much as you, but you have to understand that this ZBS requires a certain type of lineman and giving 10% of the cap to a lineman that doesn't really fit that scheme isn't a very smart move, especially on a team that needs to find some playmakers this offseason. Jonathan Martin is the future LT of this team. He needs to get stronger but he fits the type of LT that will be successful in this system. Miami may have to look into FA for a RT and address the guards in the draft . . . but unless Jake really gives the Fins a hometown discount . . . I don't think it's a move that has the best longterm interest of the team. Remember, Jake has been on the decline and unless I'm getting a guarantee that Jake will return to form and be fully healthy it Is really hard to cosign bringing him back at the ridiculous high number that is constantly being thrown around.

It was even less smart to pay him $12 million for this season when we could have traded him, let Martin play LT from the get go and get our RT for the foreseeable future, give everybody a year to learn and gel. AND use some of that $12 million to get another weapon for our rookie QB.

 

[Hayden Fox]

I am bored with the Long debate. Let him hit the market.

 

[Gonzo]

No agenda, Gonzo. I love Martin. I'm just making the same point that the overexagerated hatorade that is being spewed toward Long is being done. I root for Martin. I root for Long. But my point is to push Long's departure over to 2014 as to not create a "dire need to fill early" in the draft or FA. Is the tag costly? Sure. Can we afford it this year? Yep. If he Pro Bowls it, nice. If he sucks or gets injured again? He's off the books in 2014. Simple as that. And no, I do not expect Albert or any of the "good" LTs to be let walk, no.

That's the thing, it's not a "dire" need. You are overvaluing the position, just as our front office did in 2008. All you need is a decent player in there. What's the difference between an all-NFL LT and a decent LT? Salary cap space and maybe one or two sacks. I'll take the salary cap space and the money rerouted to positions that put points on the board any day. Lucky for us, we actually have an LT that looks like he's going to be pretty decent, if not all-world awesome, in Martin. I just need a lineman that's going to give our QB time to get the ball out and space for the running back to run (assuming he's not dancing around like a dumbass). Martin does that fine.

If we later decide to upgrade the position after we address the positions that actually matter, fine. That's a luxury good teams have. Hell, that's a luxury we maybe have this season with all the draft picks we've acquired. We can afford to draft a lineman a little bit higher AND still land some playmakers, all at a far lower cost than resigning IR Long. Tying up a ton of salary into a lineman (that most certainly hasn't earned it) only hinders that ability. Spend that money resigning Hartline, Starks, and maybe Smith; and signing a FA wide receiver, FA right tackle that can actually play an entire season, and maybe even a FA TE if we can land Jared Cook.

 

[dlockz]

Such a dilemma Long doesnt deserve franchise money and definately shouldnt get a long term contract unless he is talking 6 mill a year. In reality he should take a pay cut , the truth is he wont, so we have no other option but to see what market bares

 

[Gonzo]

But this is still missing my point, Kdawg. Tagging him does not impede us landing those playmakers. We have over $50mil to toy around with. Then, again, its a "tag". A one year deal to first and foremost buy a year to fix the playmaker needs without creating a high priority hole til 2014, where should Long suck, the $15mil becomes available. Should he beast? You then sign him long term. It's a no brainer. Imo, this Long must go "now" is knee jerky, short sighted, and childish.

Can't speak for everybody else, but I certainly never said "he must go now." I'm saying he must sign for what he's worth, which most certainly isn't anywhere near $15 million. And a savvy GM makes damn good use of that $50 million by resigning veterans that are worth it and bringing in valuable FA playmakers. Of course, that may be asking a bit much of Ireland, but I have hope that he's turning it around and brushing off the stank of Parcells and his "build through the trenches" philosophy.

 

[MrEd]

Can't speak for everybody else, but I certainly never said "he must go now." I'm saying he must sign for what he's worth, which most certainly isn't anywhere near $15 million. And a savvy GM makes damn good use of that $50 million by resigning veterans that are worth it and bringing in valuable FA playmakers. Of course, that may be asking a bit much of Ireland, but I have hope that he's turning it around and brushing off the stank of Parcells and his "build through the trenches" philosophy.

Now, as in in 2013. When you can have the cap come off in 2014 when we need less needs to fill. And then for what? Just to save cap space we don't need to save on a year where you can take the one year hit and still have more than enough cap space to fill our needs and add those playmakers without creating the dire need to fill this off season. You may be satisfied with a Columbo at RT and Martin, the weakling at LT, but I'm not. I'll take the hit (because we can) and then worry about it in 2014, should he blow as bad as some swear.

 

[Gonzo]

Now, as in in 2013. When you can have the cap come off in 2014 when we need less needs to fill. And then for what? Just to save cap space we don't need to save on a year where you can take the one year hit and still have more than enough cap space to fill our needs and add those playmakers without creating the dire need to fill this off season. You may be satisfied with a Columbo at RT and Martin, the weakling at LT, but I'm not. I'll take the hit (because we can) and then worry about it in 2014, should he blow as bad as some swear.

You sure do love that guy, dontcha? In your world where LT is the most important position in football (fantasy land), there are apparently only two options: Great LT's (not Jake Long by a long shot) and Colombos (who I was 100% accurate in calling a horrible signing the minute they did it). No in-between, eh? No simply solid linemen?

Well, your world is dead wrong. There are plenty of solid tackles that are more than capable of stepping in at RT and doing quite well for a hell of a lot less than Long. Further, Martin showed today that he is more than capable of carrying the LT position, doing a decent job against the best DE in the league with little help from the turd next to him. And he's only going to get better. We're absolutely fine with the far more athletic Martin at LT, which fits the ZBS better than the injured oaf. You know what difference is between today's team and the same team with Long playing all year? Nothing. It was still a team that couldn't put points on the board. Why not pay $14 mil. to keep the status quo? Makes total sense.

How about not taking the hit on an overrated, cornfed, injury-prone lineman and spending it on players that actually put points on the board. Novel idea, I know, especially for this team, but it's certainly worth a try.

 

[PhinMagic]

You don't pay a overrated oft injured LT 15 mil a year and move him to RT.

Your right, the only problem is 95% of dolphin fans think long is one of the best LT in the game. Obviously we dont have many people here that actually watch the games.