Desides
Perennial All-Pro
But... Noo Yawk, man. Noo Yawk. :shakeno:
Olajuwon, Ewing, Riley selected as finalists for Hall of Fame
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But... Noo Yawk, man. Noo Yawk. :shakeno:
an whatz wrong wit noo yawk? :chase::rickybrow
Desides
Perennial All-Pro
Everything. The overinflated sense of self-importance, the accents, the dirtiness, the fact that your biggest rival is friggin' Boston. BOSTON. No one cares about Boston!
A couple of years back, DirecTV advertised its sports packages in a commercial where some 400lb Noo Yawkah turned down Knicks tickets because he had the HD package. That guy was the embodiment of Noo Yawk. Short, loud, obnoxious, irrational.
And, seriously, can you guys just put on a jacket in the winter instead of coming down here? Traffic's bad enough with the 80 year old Canadians roaming around in their orange PT Cruisers.
:beer1:
LMAO shouldnt you be in your peach colored spanish style stucco house? You know, the kind that embodies miami. Friggin ugly bro. Please, every city has there issues. Like the saying goes bro....New yorkers are everywhere. You cant go to any state and not bump into us. We spread like the flu in winter :hi5:
Also those 75 year old we send down there...we do that so we can actually make it to work on time instead of have them walk 3 steps a minute during rush hour and all theyre doing is food shopping!
And its funny, I actually dont give a damn about boston in any sport except basketball and football. Im a mets fan so theyre pretty irrelevant in baseball, im an isles fan so theyre barely relevant to me in hockey...
SpaceMountain16
Disgruntled
Plus Ewing ran into the Bulls, an unstoppable machine through the prime of Ewing's career. Those were his biggest chances. Not to mention in the 80's how good the east was with great TEAMS like the Celtics and Pistons while Patrick Ewing was a great INDIVIDUAL.
I think the levels go like this:
A) Shaq and Olajuwon
B) Ewing
C) Robinson
D) mourning
Shaq and Hakeem were head and shoudlers above the other guys, next came Ewing, next came Robsinon then Zo is at the bottom. Zo really doesn't belong anywhere near these other 4 players.
You could say that about most top players, the better the reputation the more you get away w/.
That's interesting coming from a Met and dolphin fan.
Those mid 90s Knicks teams were very underrated talent wise. Starks was ALOT better than people remember, Harper was a good PG, Oakley was a beast on the boards. ewing had a good enough cast to win it all and never could, heck he wouldn't even have made the Finals in '94 if not for a blown call against the Jordan-LESS Bulls where Hubert Davis bailed him out.
Frazier was a better player than Ewing, 2 different positions but one was a clutch player and the other was Patrick Ewing. Ewing made all-NBA 1st team ONCE in his career, Frazier made it 4 times. Frazier led the Knicks to 2 titles, Ewing led the Knicks to 1 Finals appearance(he was along for the ride in '99) thanks to Jordan retiring.
How does Ewing destroy Frazier statistically? It's hard to compare G's to C's but...
Ewing averaged 21 PPG, Clyde 19
Ewing shot 50% from the field, Clyde 49%
Ewing was a 74% FT shooter, Clyde 78%
Ewing averaged 9 boards a game, Clyde 6
Ewing averaged 2 assists, Clyde 6
In postseason:
Clyde averaged 21 PPG, Ewing 20(Clyde's reg season average goes up, Ewing's goes down)
Ewing shot 47%, Clyde 51%(Clyde's goes up, Ewing's goes down- noticing a pattern?)
Clyde 75% FT shooter, Ewing 72%(both went down)
Ewing 10 boards, Clyde 7(both went up)
Asisists stayed the same
Please show me where Ewing destroys Frazier statistically?
cnc66
wiley veteran bad spelur
Mornin' Junky.. I wondered the instant I saw the statement who would get it..
ever vigilant hahahaha
Originally Posted by Boik14
Cause Dan was the man. and I had a natural hatred of the Jets cause I cant stand losers.
juncy said:
ever vigilant hahahaha
SpaceMountain16
Disgruntled
Well where would you guys rank Ewing all-time among the greatest NBA centers?
I mean for me it's probably something like:
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. David Robinson
7. Moses Malone
8. Patrick Ewing
And i'm leaving off Bill Walton, Robert Parrish, Bill Laimbeer and the great George Mikan.
I mean for me it's probably something like:
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. David Robinson
7. Moses Malone
8. Patrick Ewing
And i'm leaving off Bill Walton, Robert Parrish, Bill Laimbeer and the great George Mikan.
I think you have Robinson too high. Move up Malone and Ewing and move Robinson down after Ewinf and it looks better. W/o having seen george mikan I think he belongs based on everything that we know about him. My list:
1. Russell- hard to argue w/ all the Championships
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Mikan
5. Hakeem
6. Shaq
7. Malone
8. Ewing
9. Reed
10. Robinson
SpaceMountain16
Disgruntled
You cant put Ewing ahead of David Robinson. He's got the two rings, and i know he never won anything without Duncan, but he was a defensive player of the year, won a scoring title, a league MVP, rookie of the year he's won everything. He even scored 71 in a game. I think Robinson may have been the Ewing of the west for many years, never having a Robin while he was Batman. Remember, the Spurs were AWFUL without Robinson. In fact they would have never had Tim Duncan had Robinson not gone down and the Spurs finished horribly.
There is room for flexibility though, i actually think Hakeem was a better player than Shaq. Certainly a better all-around player, he schooled him in the 95 finals that's for sure. It's just hard to argue against Shaq when he has the 4 rings and the MVP and scored 60 in a game.
There is room for flexibility though, i actually think Hakeem was a better player than Shaq. Certainly a better all-around player, he schooled him in the 95 finals that's for sure. It's just hard to argue against Shaq when he has the 4 rings and the MVP and scored 60 in a game.
Robinson did NOTHING for that 2nd ring and Robinson wouldn't have either of them w/o Tim Duncan. Robinson had plenty of talent around him pre-Duncan and could only get to one conference Finals where, as a 1 seed, they lost in 6 to Houston. The Spurs finished 15 games ahead of the Rockets that year but he couldn't lead them to a Finals appearance over the Rockets.
Robinson was all-NBA 4 times so maybe he belongs ahead of Ewing but I was never a big David Robinson fan. I always felt that he couldn't lead a team to a title and he never did, Duncan did that. I think it says alot that w/ Robinson SA could only win once while since he's left(and he did nothing in '03 so i'm not counting him as a part of that) they have won 3 more. Duncan was the key to those titles.
I do agree that Robinson was the Ewing of the West, both had their moments of greatness but both are overrated.
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
I think your list is pretty close to accurate, though I'd move Shaq up to 3rd. Shaq's statistical dominance from 93-94 to 04-05 is absolutely incredible. Check it out. Statistically, he obliterates Kareem and Hakeem's best eras. And obviously, he has the rings to back it up.
In fact, I'd even consider moving Shaq to second, with Wilt first and Russ 3rd. There's no doubt that Russell was the greatest winner in history (in any sport), so I wouldn't fault anyone for putting him first or second, but man, statistically, both Shaq and Wilt destroy him. Still, awfully hard to argue with a guy who ran out of hands to put his championship rings on.
Mikan's always overrated on these lists, though it's hardly his fault. He was an oddity for his era; he was just big, with some skill, and that was it. Whereas Russ and Wilt would have been superstars in any era, Mikan translates poorly to our era. He would have been akin to someone like Zydrunas Ilgauskas, only with less shooting range. Still, since we're putting guys on the list based on how good they were relative to their time, he obviously belongs, though I'd put him lower.
Here's my list...
1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Tim Duncan - he's a center, not a forward. I'm tired of hearing people try to pass him off as a forward. He's a center and I'm putting him on the list.
6. Hakeem
7. Malone
8. Mikan
9. Ewing
10. Walton
I put Walton 10th, though I certainly sympathize with the cases for Robinson, Reed and Nate Thurmond (who always gets ignored on these lists, even though he was very similar to Russell, but without all the rings). Alonzo Mourning has a case for the 10th spot too.
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
And don't forget, as much as we remember game 7 of the 1970 finals as "The Willis Reed Game", and rightly so, it was Clyde's ridiculous 36 points and 19 assists that pushed the Knicks to victory. Clyde was a clutch player. Ewing was not.
As opposed to being a jet fan? With, what, 1 division title in the last 40 years? The mets may not be a historic franchise like another NY baseball team but they do have 9 90 win seasons in the last 25 years, 1 WS title in that frame, a handful of division crowns, and a couple of WS appearances so they arent half bad either.
Oh baloney. They were overrated talent wise. They did it on heart and effort cause all they had was Ewing and a bunch of lunchpail types like Oak and Mason who were limited on offense but great on defense. The lack of offensive help, someone to be Ewings Pippen in essence, was their downfall. They never had a consistant second scoring option during Ewings prime until Houston came in and he didnt mesh right away. Harper's best days were behind him by the time he came here, and John Starks was inconsistant to say the least.
Right, all NBA appearances as a determining factor. Ewing played in a golden age for talented centers not in an era where there was 1 or 2 7 footers in the entire league. Ewing was derailed regularly by the best player of all time and then by a guy who was simply unconscious (Hakeem). Again, you bring up titles but to win titles you need a supporting cast. Ewings was patchwork at best. Management did a horrendous job during his tenure finding a second scoring option despite the fact that Riley continously asked for one.
You want to talk about honors and achievements...I dont see walt Frazier's name anywhere in the top 50 greatest players of all time.
Rookie of the Year (1986)
All-NBA First Team (1990)
All-NBA Second Team (1988, '89, '91, '92, '93, '97)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1988, '89, '92)
11-time All-Star; One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
2-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92)
NCAA Basketball Tournament Most Outstanding Player (1984)
Naismith College Player of the Year in (1985).
Number 33 Retired for the New York Knicks
Ewing also averaged 2.4 blocks per game which over that long a career is an astounding number. He was part of an era that made shot blocking an art form just as Frazier made steals an art form. frazier was one of the first to understand how to play the passing lanes. Ewing did the center equivalent in an era with much more athletic players. Granted you cant penalize a player for the era they played in but at the same time there is a difference.
Frazier had a PER/36 of 19.1, Ewing was over 21 PER 36. Frazier's are indicative for a good PG, Ewings are outstanding for a C.
Ewing had 7 top 10 MVP finishes.
MVP Voting
Season Lg Share (Rank)
1988-89 NBA 0.235 (4)
1989-90 NBA 0.176 (5)
1990-91 NBA 0.021 (11)
1991-92 NBA 0.104 (5)
1992-93 NBA 0.366 (4)
1993-94 NBA 0.252 (5)
1994-95 NBA 0.219 (4)
1996-97 NBA 0.050 (8)
By comparison Fraziers best, 3 top 10 finishes:
MVP Voting
Season Lg Share (Rank)
1969-70 NBA 0.067 (4)
1972-73 NBA 0.046 (7)
1973-74 NBA 0.027 (6)
1974-75 NBA 0.006 (15)
1975-76 NBA 0.005 (17)
Statistically ranks as one of the best defensive players ever as his defensive rating and defensive win sharess indicate. Compares favorably with olajuwon and Shaq, slightly below Robinson in defensive rating and win shares.
Defensive Rating
1987-88 NBA 101.3 (5)
1989-90 NBA 102.9 (10)
1990-91 NBA 101.5 (6)
1991-92 NBA 98.4 (2)
1992-93 NBA 94.3 (1)
1993-94 NBA 92.9 (1)
1994-95 NBA 98.3 (2)
1995-96 NBA 97.9 (5)
1996-97 NBA 95.7 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.3 (2)
1999-00 NBA 97.0 (9)
Career NBA 99.1 (29)
Career 99.1 (29)
Defensive Win Shares
1987-88 NBA 13.5 (10)
1988-89 NBA 14.9 (7)
1989-90 NBA 16.2 (5)
1990-91 NBA 16.2 (4)
1991-92 NBA 20.7 (2)
1992-93 NBA 25.2 (2)
1993-94 NBA 22.6 (2)
1994-95 NBA 21.8 (2)
1995-96 NBA 18.4 (4)
1996-97 NBA 23.4 (1)
1998-99 NBA 9.5 (10)
Career NBA 247.6 (4)
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