Olajuwon, Ewing, Riley selected as finalists for Hall of Fame

[Desides]

LMAO shouldnt you be in your peach colored spanish style stucco house? You know, the kind that embodies miami. Friggin ugly bro.

I agree. That's why my house is white, and not Art Deco style. :)

Like the saying goes bro....New yorkers are everywhere. You cant go to any state and not bump into us. We spread like the flu in winter :hi5:

Self-comparison to an infectious disease... I love it!

 

[Boik14]

Robinson did NOTHING for that 2nd ring and Robinson wouldn't have either of them w/o Tim Duncan. Robinson had plenty of talent around him pre-Duncan and could only get to one conference Finals where, as a 1 seed, they lost in 6 to Houston. The Spurs finished 15 games ahead of the Rockets that year but he couldn't lead them to a Finals appearance over the Rockets.

Robinson was all-NBA 4 times so maybe he belongs ahead of Ewing but I was never a big David Robinson fan. I always felt that he couldn't lead a team to a title and he never did, Duncan did that. I think it says alot that w/ Robinson SA could only win once while since he's left(and he did nothing in '03 so i'm not counting him as a part of that) they have won 3 more. Duncan was the key to those titles.

I do agree that Robinson was the Ewing of the West, both had their moments of greatness but both are overrated.

I dont question Duncans importance but again supporting cast means something. Robinson had what, avery johnson starting there for a number of years while Duncans gotten to have all star caliber players like Ginolbli and Parker who can carry the team for a week if Duncan goes cold or gets hurt. Robinson or Ewing or Olajuwon for that matter never had that luxury. It doesnt take away from Duncans accomplishments but it does add to how much the other 3 accomplished with so little around them.

 

[SpaceMountain16]

I dont question Duncans importance but again supporting cast means something. Robinson had what, avery johnson starting there for a number of years while Duncans gotten to have all star caliber players like Ginolbli and Parker who can carry the team for a week if Duncan goes cold or gets hurt. Robinson or Ewing or Olajuwon for that matter never had that luxury. It doesnt take away from Duncans accomplishments but it does add to how much the other 3 accomplished with so little around them.

Well, Robinson did have Sean Elliot for much of his time there. Elliot being a solid player, and an all-star. But other than that, he certainly was the key reason the Spurs were one of the better teams in the east, despite their short comings in the playoffs.

Olajuwon had some good players around him. Beginning with Ralph Sampson when he was drafted, who ended up getting injured. He got Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell, Mario Ellie and of course Clyde Drexler later on in his career, and then they won titles.

Ewing had Sparks and Doc Rivers and Charlie War but nobody really all-star caliber next to him. He was still able to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in a strong conference, but he couldn't carry them to a title. He never got the aide Robinson did.

I still think Robinson was a better player though.

 

[Boik14]

Well, Robinson did have Sean Elliot for much of his time there. Elliot being a solid player, and an all-star. But other than that, he certainly was the key reason the Spurs were one of the better teams in the east, despite their short comings in the playoffs.

Olajuwon had some good players around him. Beginning with Ralph Sampson when he was drafted, who ended up getting injured. He got Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell, Mario Ellie and of course Clyde Drexler later on in his career, and then they won titles.

Ewing had Sparks and Doc Rivers and Charlie War but nobody really all-star caliber next to him. He was still able to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in a strong conference, but he couldn't carry them to a title. He never got the aide Robinson did.

I still think Robinson was a better player though.

Elliot was definitely good but his knee injuries really robbed him of being more. When he stayed healthy the Spurs were pretty solid but the years he got hurt they just ended up back in the lottery pretty much. which of course is what led to them getting duncan.

hakeem had a nice set of complementary players. A good lunchpail group much like Ewing had and then was just inconscious vs the Knicks in the 94 finals and vs the magic a year later. The series vs the magic was the best Ive ever seen a center play in terms of displaying every move, correct diagnosis of where the double team was coming from...i mean he made shaq look like he wasnt ready for the NBA defensively in that series. When Drexler came in he was near the tailend of his great career, and still he was really the best player Olajuwon got to play with.

Robinson is probably the most underrated/underappreciated player of all time. Defensively he stacks up as one of the top 4 or 5 players ever based on win shares and defensive rating. So I cant dispute him being better then Ewing. I think all 4 of the names being tossed around in this conversation, Ewing Shaq, Olajuwon, and Robinson are among the top 7 or 8 best centers ever. Id probably rank them Olajuwon, Robinson, O Neal, Ewing as much as it pains me to say that

 

[nyjunc]

As opposed to being a jet fan? With, what, 1 division title in the last 40 years? The mets may not be a historic franchise like another NY baseball team but they do have 9 90 win seasons in the last 25 years, 1 WS title in that frame, a handful of division crowns, and a couple of WS appearances so they arent half bad either.

Miami hasn't won a SB since 5 years after we last won a SB and you haven't even been a playoff contender since 2002 and haven't made the playoffs since PRIOR to NE winning their 1st SB. My team may not be great but they sure have had alot more success over the past decade.

Oh baloney. They were overrated talent wise. They did it on heart and effort cause all they had was Ewing and a bunch of lunchpail types like Oak and Mason who were limited on offense but great on defense. The lack of offensive help, someone to be Ewings Pippen in essence, was their downfall. They never had a consistant second scoring option during Ewings prime until Houston came in and he didnt mesh right away. Harper's best days were behind him by the time he came here, and John Starks was inconsistant to say the least.

Starks was a damn good player, oak was a monster on the boards. Those Knick teams were good enough to win at least 1 title and they had the Bulls on the ropes in 1993 but couldn't finish them off and Ewing watched as Hakeem dominated the '94 Finals.

I am not comparing Starks to Pippen overall but you said Ewing didn't have that #2 scoring option like Jordan had w/ Pippen. In the Bulls championship years Pippen averaged about 19 PPG, in nthe 3 years Ewing had a legit shot to win Championships('92-'93 through '94-'95) Starks averaged 17 PPG. Was it those 2 PPG that cost the Knicks Championships? In those postseason years Pippen averaged about 19 PPG and starks 16- was it the 3 PPG that cost Ewing a title? Ewing had more than enough support to win it all at least once.

Right, all NBA appearances as a determining factor. Ewing played in a golden age for talented centers not in an era where there was 1 or 2 7 footers in the entire league.

David Robinson had 4 1st team all-NBA selections compared to 1 for Ewing and they did play in the same era, right?. That's all we need to know.

You want to talk about honors and achievements...I dont see walt Frazier's name anywhere in the top 50 greatest players of all time.

You don't? then you aren't looking hard enough, this list is alphabetical- check it out:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu7CXg.../**http://www.nba.com/history/50greatest.html

Statistically ranks as one of the best defensive players ever as his defensive rating and defensive win sharess indicate. Compares favorably with olajuwon and Shaq, slightly below Robinson in defensive rating and win shares.

Yet in the biggest series of his life Anthony Mason was gurading olajuwon b/c Olajuwon was humiliating Ewing. If he was truly a great defensive player he could have done a better job against Hakeem and the Knicks would have won that series. Hakeem average 27 PPG and shot 50% from the field while Ewing averaged 19 PPG and shot 36% PLUS everyone blames Starks for Game 6 but if Ewing could hit some clutch FTs the Knicks still would have won that series.

 

[nyjunc]

Well, Robinson did have Sean Elliot for much of his time there. Elliot being a solid player, and an all-star. But other than that, he certainly was the key reason the Spurs were one of the better teams in the east, despite their short comings in the playoffs.

Olajuwon had some good players around him. Beginning with Ralph Sampson when he was drafted, who ended up getting injured. He got Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Vernon Maxwell, Mario Ellie and of course Clyde Drexler later on in his career, and then they won titles.

Ewing had Sparks and Doc Rivers and Charlie War but nobody really all-star caliber next to him. He was still able to carry the Knicks to the playoffs in a strong conference, but he couldn't carry them to a title. He never got the aide Robinson did.

I still think Robinson was a better player though.

Ewing had Starks, Oakley, Derek Harper, Ward, Charles Smith, Anthony Mason, Greg Anthony, Hubert Davis, Xavier McDaniel, Mark Jackson, ... He had plenty of talent around him. It was as good, if not better, than what Hakeem had around him in Houston.

 

[nyjunc]

I dont question Duncans importance but again supporting cast means something. Robinson had what, avery johnson starting there for a number of years while Duncans gotten to have all star caliber players like Ginolbli and Parker who can carry the team for a week if Duncan goes cold or gets hurt. Robinson or Ewing or Olajuwon for that matter never had that luxury. It doesnt take away from Duncans accomplishments but it does add to how much the other 3 accomplished with so little around them.

When they won in '99 they had Avery Johnson starting along w/ an old Mario Elie and Sean Elliott back from kidney problems. That was Duncan's team and the biggest difference from the year before was that Duncan had a year under his belt. The '03 team led by Duncan was more talented but it was young talent. Remember they wanted to get jason Kidd even after they won the title w/ parker as their PG. Parker in '03 was very up and down while Ginoboli was just a bench player and Duncan led them to that title.

 

[Section126]

As usual..another shot at ZO from a disgruntled Nets fan.

Kiss his ring.

BTW, it should be against the law for a jet fan to call any other franchise a loser..especially one that has a 13 to 1 advantage in Division titles...6 to 1 in afc titles...etc...etc...you get the picture.

 

[Boik14]

Miami hasn't won a SB since 5 years after we last won a SB and you haven't even been a playoff contender since 2002 and haven't made the playoffs since PRIOR to NE winning their 1st SB. My team may not be great but they sure have had alot more success over the past decade.

Whoop dee doo. You're having success with the same players our VP drafted for you a decade ago. Your drafts are almost as bad as Miami's except that we now have someone with a brain running the show (for the first time in a while). The differences are you GM plays hardball when negotiating contracts with good players (Kendall, Moore, now Coles) but hes the first to swing the hatchet. I acknowledge my team hasnt had a good five years or so but we still have one of the top winning percentages of any team in the league since the afl/nfl merger. The jets just continually stink year after year, whats that like?

Starks was a damn good player, oak was a monster on the boards. Those Knick teams were good enough to win at least 1 title and they had the Bulls on the ropes in 1993 but couldn't finish them off and Ewing watched as Hakeem dominated the '94 Finals.

I am not comparing Starks to Pippen overall but you said Ewing didn't have that #2 scoring option like Jordan had w/ Pippen. In the Bulls championship years Pippen averaged about 19 PPG, in nthe 3 years Ewing had a legit shot to win Championships('92-'93 through '94-'95) Starks averaged 17 PPG. Was it those 2 PPG that cost the Knicks Championships? In those postseason years Pippen averaged about 19 PPG and starks 16- was it the 3 PPG that cost Ewing a title? Ewing had more than enough support to win it all at least once.

Starks would have been the 3rd or 4th option on a great team. He was 30 points one night 3/16 the next night. Forget averages he was inconsistant. He averaged so many points because someone besides Ewing had to get shots and Oakley and Mason only had foul-line extended range. Call me a Ewing apologists but all those years of 20-10- with almost 3 blocks a game some years warms my heart especially given the current state of the franchise. Plus the 50% shooting, which, for a jump shooting center is outstanding. Oakley I loved to watch because he was a warrior. But as an offensive player he was limited to occassional jump shots and putbacks.

Again, lets count all the great players who had championship runs derailed by Jordan. Ewing, stockton, Malone, Miller, Zo, Drexler (for 2x anyway), Payton, kemp, Barkley...dont act like Ewing was alone in being denied. Those are all historic NBA players except for Kemp. Despite the Knicks shortcomings they would have had at least another 2-3 finals appearances if not for Jordan.

David Robinson had 4 1st team all-NBA selections compared to 1 for Ewing and they did play in the same era, right?. That's all we need to know.

Dude, where did I say Robinson wasnt better then ewing? Ewings stats defensively though place him as a top 10defensive center all time. Robinsons Defensive % places him in the top 2. There is a massive difference no question.

Yet in the biggest series of his life Anthony Mason was gurading olajuwon b/c Olajuwon was humiliating Ewing. If he was truly a great defensive player he could have done a better job against Hakeem and the Knicks would have won that series. Hakeem average 27 PPG and shot 50% from the field while Ewing averaged 19 PPG and shot 36% PLUS everyone blames Starks for Game 6 but if Ewing could hit some clutch FTs the Knicks still would have won that series.

Ewing had that coming to him because of how badly he humiliated Olajuwon in college. Youre saying that because ewing couldnt stop a player who is also a HOFER and the best center of his era, (maybe ever) hes not a great defensive player? LOL, not a great argument. :err:

 

[Boik14]

And don't forget, as much as we remember game 7 of the 1970 finals as "The Willis Reed Game", and rightly so, it was Clyde's ridiculous 36 points and 19 assists that pushed the Knicks to victory. Clyde was a clutch player. Ewing was not.

Ya ewing wasnt a clutch player, lest we forget the putback dunk he had that finished off the playoff series with Indiana. Not clutch I know.

Not directed solely at you Phun, but I heard all this ten years ago on the Fan. How Ewing wasnt clutch and how his teams never went anywhere. Its amazing how much the past changes the court of public opinion. Now those same people call up and say "well man was I wrong". 20 and 10 every night with 53-62 win seasons every year dont seem like such a bad thing anymore. If walt had to play vs Jordan hes have the same result: 0 rings.

Well at least Ewing carried his country to those 2 team USA golds

 

[SpaceMountain16]

Ewing had Starks, Oakley, Derek Harper, Ward, Charles Smith, Anthony Mason, Greg Anthony, Hubert Davis, Xavier McDaniel, Mark Jackson, ... He had plenty of talent around him. It was as good, if not better, than what Hakeem had around him in Houston.

I mentioned Starks and Ward, it appears i just cant type today

I know the Knicks had some servicable talent around Ewing. If they didn't, they wouldn't have been a power in the east for much of the 80's and 90's. But that talent really wasn't good enough to help Ewing elevate the franchise to a title. There wasn't another all-star there with Ewing, and he was battling against Indiana and Chicago pretty much on his own.

Greg Anthony was never an all-star. McDaniel was but i think he was with Seattle when he was. Starks and Oakley may have been in it once or twice. Again though there was no Robin for Batman.

 

[nyjunc]

As usual..another shot at ZO from a disgruntled Nets fan.

Kiss his ring.

BTW, it should be against the law for a jet fan to call any other franchise a loser..especially one that has a 13 to 1 advantage in Division titles...6 to 1 in afc titles...etc...etc...you get the picture.

Kiss his ring, the ring he got riding Shaq's coattails? the ring he didn't deserve? We saw for many years what teams did when Zo was leading them.

Your team hasn't made the playoffs since 2001 and you won ONE game last year. You haven't even been legit playoff contenders since '02 so pipe down about results from 10-20-30 years ago.

Whoop dee doo. You're having success with the same players our VP drafted for you a decade ago. Your drafts are almost as bad as Miami's except that we now have someone with a brain running the show (for the first time in a while).

Really? who are these players? Coles, Chad and Ellis were drafted by Al Groh. I don't think there is a single Parcells drafted player(thankfully b/c he was awful at drafting) still on our roster. Do some research before you spout things off.

Our drafts have been bad?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2007/04/26/2007-04-26_jet_draft_stock_soars.html

The differences are you GM plays hardball when negotiating contracts with good players (Kendall, Moore, now Coles) but hes the first to swing the hatchet. I acknowledge my team hasnt had a good five years or so but we still have one of the top winning percentages of any team in the league since the afl/nfl merger. The jets just continually stink year after year, whats that like?

Who cares about the damn winning %, you only have 2 SBs w/ that former great win %. That's just 1 more than the lowly Jets and the lowly Jets have been alot better than Miami in the past decade.

Again, lets count all the great players who had championship runs derailed by Jordan. Ewing, stockton, Malone, Miller, Zo, Drexler (for 2x anyway), Payton, kemp, Barkley...dont act like Ewing was alone in being denied. Those are all historic NBA players except for Kemp. Despite the Knicks shortcomings they would have had at least another 2-3 finals appearances if not for Jordan.

He had a 2 year window when the Knicks were at their peak and he couldn't win a Championship and the Knicks became a Championship caliber team in 1992, do you know how many times from '92- on that Ewing lost to the Bulls? just 3 times. You make it seem like every year they lost to the Bulls.

'92 lost to Chi in 2nd rd
'93 lost to Chi in conf Finals(w/ homecourt)
'94 lost to Houston in Finals
'95 lost to Indiana in 2nd rd(w/ homecourt)
'96 lost to chi in 2nd rd
'97 lost to Miami in 2nd rd
'98 lost to Indiana in 2nd rd

What are the excuses for those other 4 playoff losses?

Ewing had that coming to him because of how badly he humiliated Olajuwon in college. Youre saying that because ewing couldnt stop a player who is also a HOFER and the best center of his era, (maybe ever) hes not a great defensive player? LOL, not a great argument.

yeah b/c their college matchup from 10 years earlier was really relevant in 1994.

Ya ewing wasnt a clutch player, lest we forget the putback dunk he had that finished off the playoff series with Indiana. Not clutch I know.

It's very clutch to dunk a ball:rolleyes2: How about the finger roll he missed to lose the Indiana series in '95?

I mentioned Starks and Ward, it appears i just cant type today

I know the Knicks had some servicable talent around Ewing. If they didn't, they wouldn't have been a power in the east for much of the 80's and 90's. But that talent really wasn't good enough to help Ewing elevate the franchise to a title. There wasn't another all-star there with Ewing, and he was battling against Indiana and Chicago pretty much on his own.

Greg Anthony was never an all-star. McDaniel was but i think he was with Seattle when he was. Starks and Oakley may have been in it once or twice. Again though there was no Robin for Batman.

You don't need 4 all-stars around you, he had all-star caliber players in Starks, oakley and Mason. he had more than enough talent to win and never did.

 

[Section126]

WOW!

Now Zo didn't deserve his ring!

I guess you didn't see game 6.

Not for nothing. But down the stretch in that championship year....ZO..YEP..ZO closed out games while SHAQ sat the bench.

ZO was the GUY that set the tone for game 6 with his blocks and hustle.

You ignored that because you have an irrational hatred of him. He deserved his ring, to say that he didn't is just dumb.


BTW...Don't be a patriot fan nyjunc. History didn't start in 2001. You can't pick and choose the era you want to compare.

Fins...traditional winners. Jets..Traditional losers.

again...don't forget to kiss ZO's ring.

 

[nyjunc]

WOW!

Now Zo didn't deserve his ring!

I guess you didn't see game 6.

Not for nothing. But down the stretch in that championship year....ZO..YEP..ZO closed out games while SHAQ sat the bench.

ZO was the GUY that set the tone for game 6 with his blocks and hustle.

You ignored that because you have an irrational hatred of him. He deserved his ring, to say that he didn't is just dumb.


BTW...Don't be a patriot fan nyjunc. History didn't start in 2001. You can't pick and choose the era you want to compare.

Fins...traditional winners. Jets..Traditional losers.

again...don't forget to kiss ZO's ring.

Zo was along for the ride, Miami would have won that title w/ or w/o Zo. They won that title mainly b/c wade was treated like he was Jordan and shot 20 FTs a game in the Finals. Zo may have had a few good moments but they would have won w/ or w/o him.

As far as the dolphins, you can discount a few years but not a decade. The Jets have been better for a decade and Miami has been an embarrassment much of this decade including nearly going winless a year ago. You guys haven't even been playoff contenders since 2002 so keep talking about the 70s and 80s while the rest of us live in this Century.

 

[GreenMonster]

Zo was along for the ride, Miami would have won that title w/ or w/o Zo. They won that title mainly b/c wade was treated like he was Jordan and shot 20 FTs a game in the Finals. Zo may have had a few good moments but they would have won w/ or w/o him.

As far as the dolphins, you can discount a few years but not a decade. The Jets have been better for a decade and Miami has been an embarrassment much of this decade including nearly going winless a year ago. You guys haven't even been playoff contenders since 2002 so keep talking about the 70s and 80s while the rest of us live in this Century.

70's, 80's, don't forget the 90's when the Phins were 30 wins better than the Jets. Since 2000 the Jets have 2 more wins than the Dolphins. So give us all a break, the Jets are crap.

Sure Zo rode Shaq for a ring, but its not like he wasn't a pretty big part of the team on and off the court. Not sure I can continue to burn Zo for not bringing a team a title in the same era that Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, Malone and a slew of other greats couldn't.