On trial: Philbin (Finheaven court of "Law.") | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

On trial: Philbin (Finheaven court of "Law.")

I would honestly be OK with keeping Philbin if Jeff Ireland is jettisoned, Mike Sherman 'retires' and the new GM gives an honest evaluation and actively wants to keep Philbin.

The problem is I just don't see Joe dumping Sherman and our offensive coaching staff, and IMO they are the bipggest problem with this team. Can't figure out how to use Reggie Bush. Can't figure out how to use Mike Wallace. Can't figure out how to use Ryan Tannehill (bootlegs, anyone?).

They keep trying to use Ryan Tannehill exclusively as a Tom Brady style pocket passer, and he's a damn second year QB who had a limited number of college starts. He isn't going to be at the level of a 13 year veteran / all pro player, and it's absurd to ask him to play that way. I don't know what they're thinking.
 
Reason to keep him

1. Panthers HC Ron Rivera and his starting QB Cam Newton didn't have success together until their third season (this year). Fire the GM...fine. That's what the Panthers did after 6-10 and 7-9 records prior to this season. Picked up Dave Gettleman, got some pretty good talent on that team and they're finally having success in Carolina after 4 straight seasons of bad football. I'm afraid we might be giving up too soon on Philbin and it's definitely too early to give up on Tannehill. We need a change in front office philosophy for sure and maybe a few tweaks on the rest of the coaching staff, but I'm not sure we should let Philbin walk just yet.

It's funny, our defense is supposed to be a strength, especially the front 7, yet they have arguably been the 2nd most disappointing unit on this team (oline obviously first). Carolina, under Newton, always showed potential to be brilliant offensively. Top 3 rushing team, draft picks dedicated to WRs while still having Steve Smith as a big time playmaker, oline was solid. You know what changed? They drafted a TRUE leader on defense in Luke Kuechley. Since then, you've seen that defense truly turn it around and now they are hitting their best strides.

We had some of that with Dansby last season, except Dansby wasn't much of a playmaker, he was just a consistent tackler. However, his leadership qualities helped keep this defense together, disciplined, and they were a top 10 defense. No surprise that Arizona is impressing defensively with him roaming in the middle for them. Leadership is a quality that can't be taught and its sorely missed on this defense right now.

Dolphins drafted defense with 3 of it's first 4 picks this year and only the guy who we used a first and a second round pick for can see any time, and even that is extremely limited. People complain and complain about the offensive line and other aspects of the offense, but until we have a true leader on defense, we will never reach the heights where we need to be.

Maybe Ellerbe is that guy, he did train under Ray Lewis . . . but right now, that guy . . . that leader . . is absent on this team.

Philbin had Bush and Dansby come to him as leaders in 2012, guys who are proven leaders, and in 2013 he didn't have that guy so Incognito is made a leader. He needs guys who can lead on the field for him. Without that, he won't find much success, even if he does upgrade the roster.
 
Sorry, I just don't see a championship coach in Philbin. He doesn't inspire men, he doesn't out think opposing coaches, he doesn't make players disciplined. A championship coach has at least one of these qualities, and most have multiple of these qualities. Philbin has none.

Well, I'm not 100 percent ready to give up on him after 1 and a half seasons. I mean hell, it's hard for any coach to have success when you crap for an offensive line, a 60 million dollar "star" receiver with half a heart, a paltry running game, and an inconsistent defense. A change in front office philosophy is most definitely needed, but at head coach...not sold yet.
 
2 scrubs for the Bucs rang up 153 yards rushing and we have a strong front 7? Mmmmmk! Not like they were worried about Peyton Manning it was Mike flipping Glennon!
 
I think Philbin gets one more year. Tony Dungy's statement today:

“Stephen Ross asked me to serve on his committee to make recommendations on his team’s conduct policies,” Dungy said in a statement released by his current employer, NBC. “I accepted his invitation because his passion to take a fresh look at the standards of behavior for the Miami Dolphins is sincere. I look forward to working on this important initiative after the season with Coach Philbin and the impressive list of former coaches and players that Stephen has brought together. My hope is that this will benefit athletes and coaches everywhere.”

:idk:
 
First we were told Ireland was getting Sparano type players, and now with Phiillibin guiding him, he is getting his players. But now that they suck, it's poor Phillibin is stuck with chitty players, that's why we lose. Unreal the excuses for not getting the job done. Sorry but that display last night was one of a team with no leader or direction. His A$$ needs to go, with Ireland right out the door with him.
 
I think Philbin gets one more year. Tony Dungy's statement today:

“Stephen Ross asked me to serve on his committee to make recommendations on his team’s conduct policies,” Dungy said in a statement released by his current employer, NBC. “I accepted his invitation because his passion to take a fresh look at the standards of behavior for the Miami Dolphins is sincere. I look forward to working on this important initiative after the season with Coach Philbin and the impressive list of former coaches and players that Stephen has brought together. My hope is that this will benefit athletes and coaches everywhere.”

:idk:

Nothing like handicapping your GM pool!
 
I think Philbin gets one more year. Tony Dungy's statement today:

“Stephen Ross asked me to serve on his committee to make recommendations on his team’s conduct policies,” Dungy said in a statement released by his current employer, NBC. “I accepted his invitation because his passion to take a fresh look at the standards of behavior for the Miami Dolphins is sincere. I look forward to working on this important initiative after the season with Coach Philbin and the impressive list of former coaches and players that Stephen has brought together. My hope is that this will benefit athletes and coaches everywhere.”

:idk:

Ugh.
 
reasons to go:

1. go go

reasons to keep him:

1.

I decided to reverse the order of the question for reasons that should be obvious to those who read my case.

Reasons to keep him:

1) He still has the locker room. The players seem to toe the line and there hasnt been any reported dissatisfaction with his coaching, other then an isolated incident on Hard Knocks during his rookie offseason. These are not unusual for new or even old coaches. Twice the Ravens locker room leadership has had a sitdown with Harbaugh over his practice habits, once in 2012. Basically, nothing out of the ordinary as far as players commitment goes.

2) Cause. While a head coach owns his record, Philbin hasnt been the biggest cause for losses: talent has. When this team is able to execute his game plans, we seem to win. If the other team stops our execution or if we have an off day, we dont have the talent to roll with the punches and pull out a win. That speaks to talent. Which is the arena of the general manager.

3) Staff. Mike Sherman was obviously a bad hire...if you look at it from a team wide perspective. As far as easing our franchise quarterback into the league, then that hire was acceptable and even laudable. Kevin Coyle has elevated the play of our defensive backs, much like he did for the Bengals. Dimitri Patterson is not a good player, but because of coaching he has played extremely well for us in a position he hasnt played much at(he was resigned in Cleveland to be their nickle corner, not starting corner).

4) Practice habits. Philbin was praised for introducing new concepts during practice. For example: quarterback/offensive drills in which he got more plays fired off by lining up our teams differently.

Reasons to go:

1) Outside of our secondary, the play of our players hasnt risen in any sort of dramatic fashion. This team still makes the same mistakes it did under Tony Sparano. The players that performed well under him(Wake) perform well under this staff. The players that struggled under Sparano still struggle under this staff. In fact, of late we have noticeably struggled in areas that used to be positions of strength(run stopping). Which is to say nothing of areas of weakness that still havent improved(o-line).

2) No victories to hang his hat on. We've played up to the level of some opponents and down to the levels of others. During that time, we havent had a decisive victory for this coaching staff to point to and say "this is what happens when you buy into what we are selling". Sure, we clobbered the Raiders and Jets last year, but those were some of the worst teams in the league. We beat the Colts this season, but we scrapped by. In the time Philbin has been here, we havent dropped +35 points on, say, the Patriots like Sparano did during the Wildcat game. We havent slapped around a contender. Despite that lack of "hallmark win", we have had some positively embarrassing losses. Losing to a practice squad quarterback and the Mike Glennon/Bobby Rainey Bucs have been extremely discouraging.

3) Scandal. No need to go into this, but some things have been inexcusable no matter what side your on: letting a headcase become a leader, not knowing whats going on in the locker room, etc.

4) Game day mistakes. We still have trouble with our clock management and we still dont make the right calls on challenges. Some of our substitutions and play calls are horrific(Daniel Thomas should never be given another stretch play, ever). Granted, while all teams make mistakes, its fairly inexcusable for this staff to be making the same mistakes they did a year ago. That is not a good sign.

5) Perception. If fans are questioning why everyone in the former "leadership council" is no longer around, then you can be sure its come up in the locker room. It doesnt really matter if it was Ireland or Philbin who did that, the stigma is attached to Philbin. That can create a lack of trust and a lack of communication between the players and coaches.

6) There is no reason to hamstring a future regime with this coaching staff. While it is not Philbin's fault Ireland filled this roster with crappy and overpaid players, Philbin had to know there was a possibility he would go down with the ship if things started to falter. That possibility was clear to everyone. No one forced him to take the job. No one even forced him to interview for the job. He gambled on his own abilities and he could lose big. I believe the average time a coaching staff has is 2 years to show noticeably improvement. Thus far, we havent shown that. In fact, we could end up worst then we were last season, by quite a bit.

For my closing argument, i could point out the negatives outweigh the positives, but instead i'll focus on one fundamental of the NFL: can we improve with a new coaching staff? The answer is clearly yes. If players can be cut or replaced through no fault of their own by a better acquisition, then that same standard can be held to the coaching staff. Joe Philbin simply hasnt done much to earn our loyalty other then being hired in the first place. While he is not a bad coach and even good in some areas, he does have enough poor qualities to make us all question if he can win a Superbowl. If he is not a special coach, if he has not clearly shown special qualities, why should we waste the time? The answer is: we shouldnt.
 
He is very neat and tidy picking up trash on the practice field and all.

Seriously i've been a Philbin supporter but the number one job of the HC to me is to have his team ready to play and several times this year after bye and long weeks with extra time to get ready for important games they have been flat and seemingly uninterested. That's Joe's fault.

Being at the Game last night. The big difference between Miami, and Tampa. Miami came out Flat, again. We pulled this crap against Buffalo too, and not closing out games.
We should have a winning record. That's on the Coach man.
 
2 scrubs for the Bucs rang up 153 yards rushing and we have a strong front 7? Mmmmmk! Not like they were worried about Peyton Manning it was Mike flipping Glennon!

Not defending the front 7. The bucs were fresh off of sticking the football in Seattle's ass with the run game the week prior (38 Attempts for 205). They are obviously doing something different.
 
If they do make a change please no more on the job training head coaches.
After Wanny we've had Sabin , Cam , Tony and Joe and not a one of them ever was a head coach at the NFL level before they got here. We need a vet next time.

Hey I honestly hope Joe gets the team together and we win out then there is no discussion.
I also hope the next time I take a poop I look in the toilet and there is a gold bar.

They are both about as likely at this point.
 
I would honestly be OK with keeping Philbin if Jeff Ireland is jettisoned, Mike Sherman 'retires' and the new GM gives an honest evaluation and actively wants to keep Philbin.

The problem is I just don't see Joe dumping Sherman and our offensive coaching staff, and IMO they are the bipggest problem with this team. Can't figure out how to use Reggie Bush. Can't figure out how to use Mike Wallace. Can't figure out how to use Ryan Tannehill (bootlegs, anyone?).

They keep trying to use Ryan Tannehill exclusively as a Tom Brady style pocket passer, and he's a damn second year QB who had a limited number of college starts. He isn't going to be at the level of a 13 year veteran / all pro player, and it's absurd to ask him to play that way. I don't know what they're thinking.

I will agree the offensive staff is the main problem with the team. I have some irritations about the defensive staff as well. But more so the way we call plays. We do nothing to try and get Wallace going. I wonder why we do not move our wideouts around. Don't trap RT in the damn pocket. Let the man move.

All of this further compounds our line troubles. We have dudes playing out of position based on what they would like to be. Does not matter. The only one I really expect to be back next year on the line will Pouncey.
 
Joe needs to fire Sherman this week. Run the OC here on out. Win some good games the rest of the year.. The team is flat out stale. Alll kinds of time in the bye week to fix stuff. Nothing. Come out and blow it. Mini bye week flat again. No urgency or fire.
Its like they have no sac. Its like man the F up and smack some fools.
Marino would be in Wallace's face if he was the QB. We need someone with tenacity that will call players out for there **** but be there to pat them on back when they do good. I would have ripped wheeler. Joe didn't do ****.
Joe is to loyal to give Sherman the boot. So we will be stuck with the same ass play calling.
Im sick of Sherman. Ireland is done in my book. Im not sold on Joe. He just might be to soft.
 
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