On trial: Philbin (Finheaven court of "Law.") | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

On trial: Philbin (Finheaven court of "Law.")

After Wanny we've had Sabin , Cam , Tony and Joe and not a one of them ever was a head coach at the NFL level before they got here. We need a vet next time.

I disagree with this. We don't need to find a guy with head coaching experience, we need to find a guy who has the right attributes for the job. The one successful coach in the history of this franchise -- who also happened to be the most successful coach in the history of the league -- had very limited experience when he got his first head coaching job. But he had the intelligence, the toughness, the presence, and the command to get the job done.

Go find somebody who understands game strategy and motivation of men. I was only half joking when I suggested we take a look at Chad Pennington. Look outside the box. What is Brian Billick going to bring to this franchise? Serious question, what on earth does someone like that bring to this franchise besides "He's done it before?"
 
I like Joe. If you told me at the beginning of the season that I'd have any doubt about going forward with him I'd say "don't bogart that blunt.. pass it on." However, the relationship he has with Sherman and presumable reservations about kicking to the curb a lifelong friend and mentor who means more to him than any job is disturbing. Likewise the nepotism of naming Taylor an NFL coach and entrusting our very valuable asset to him, essentially having the blind lead the blind without Philbin stepping in after some of TH17's error started reappearing this year and relieving Taylor of his duties is likewise disturbing... How could Sherman fire his son in law? Ditto Philbin his best bud's son in law? Too many intertwining personal relationships here especially when they involve untested and underqualified position coaches obviously over their head. And then there's Jim Turner *sigh* Although it looks like he put the time and work in in college and got some good results, he's never had anything to do with a pro offensive line, or the pros at all as far as I can see. The HK tough love drill sergeant shtick was captivating, but I'm one who believes his attitude set the tone for the Martin fiasco as well. And like in any major organization I've been involved with directly or as a consultant, no matter who's ****ed up or not performing, when it comes to the CEO/field general, "the buck always stops there." So there's that.

I'd like to give him another year if possible so long as he fires the majority of his coaching staff and replaces them with ones with NFL experience. One thing no one can deny is that Joe is very smart and if he doesn't learn from experience, he definitely deserves what he gets. I sure would rather stick with him that bring in the likes of Coach Mediocre Fisher who could only produce 6 winning seasons going on 18 or 19, or Gruden, the mad QB scientist who definitely talks a better game than he coaches, so sometimes "the devil you know" is preferable to the one that you don't! Now besides that, who here doesn't think that Cleveland would have taken a mulligan if they could have gone back in time to when they fired Belicheat?
 
I would honestly be OK with keeping Philbin if Jeff Ireland is jettisoned, Mike Sherman 'retires' and the new GM gives an honest evaluation and actively wants to keep Philbin.

The problem is I just don't see Joe dumping Sherman and our offensive coaching staff, and IMO they are the bipggest problem with this team. Can't figure out how to use Reggie Bush. Can't figure out how to use Mike Wallace. Can't figure out how to use Ryan Tannehill (bootlegs, anyone?).

They keep trying to use Ryan Tannehill exclusively as a Tom Brady style pocket passer, and he's a damn second year QB who had a limited number of college starts. He isn't going to be at the level of a 13 year veteran / all pro player, and it's absurd to ask him to play that way. I don't know what they're thinking.

Exactly how I feel.
 
Guys I wanted to believe that we had found the coach. I new we had problems when we couldn't run the ball.i know we had problems when we couldnt get the ball to mike Wallace. If he is your #1 get him the ball early and often. We only did it once early in the season. I that hat was on Sherman. After we came out of the bye and dropped an egg against the Bills that got me thinking. Maybe Philbin is not the guy.Then the Martin Fiasco blew in to town followed by Halloween night. The Bengals was he best game I had been to in that stadium since our last playoff victory in 2001. It was sad though, the stadium was empty maybe 45000 fans. It was like rainy preseason game sad. National TV and no fans. To follow up against the winless Bucks like they did against Buffalo has made up my mind.......Blow it up fire everybody Ireland Philbin Sherman We must start from scratch.....

Ross make sure you don't **** it up. Make sure you pick the right guy. I speak for all my buddies in section 144..... Blow it up let's start it up again. Find somebody With an eye for talent find somebody to coach'em up !
 
He is very neat and tidy picking up trash on the practice field and all.

Seriously i've been a Philbin supporter but the number one job of the HC to me is to have his team ready to play and several times this year after bye and long weeks with extra time to get ready for important games they have been flat and seemingly uninterested. That's Joe's fault.

*Sigh* Very disappointed with our team not being ready to play in the first half, as you say. There can be a lot of reasons for that, but it's Joe's job to overcome them. I'm seeing zero progress in that department. Like you, I've been a supporter. I counsel patience until I'm blue in the face. I don't want another regime change so soon, yet Joe is not helping me here. I'm close to saying f-it.
 
I decided to reverse the order of the question for reasons that should be obvious to those who read my case.

Reasons to keep him:

1) He still has the locker room. The players seem to toe the line and there hasnt been any reported dissatisfaction with his coaching, other then an isolated incident on Hard Knocks during his rookie offseason. These are not unusual for new or even old coaches. Twice the Ravens locker room leadership has had a sitdown with Harbaugh over his practice habits, once in 2012. Basically, nothing out of the ordinary as far as players commitment goes.

2) Cause. While a head coach owns his record, Philbin hasnt been the biggest cause for losses: talent has. When this team is able to execute his game plans, we seem to win. If the other team stops our execution or if we have an off day, we dont have the talent to roll with the punches and pull out a win. That speaks to talent. Which is the arena of the general manager.

3) Staff. Mike Sherman was obviously a bad hire...if you look at it from a team wide perspective. As far as easing our franchise quarterback into the league, then that hire was acceptable and even laudable. Kevin Coyle has elevated the play of our defensive backs, much like he did for the Bengals. Dimitri Patterson is not a good player, but because of coaching he has played extremely well for us in a position he hasnt played much at(he was resigned in Cleveland to be their nickle corner, not starting corner).

4) Practice habits. Philbin was praised for introducing new concepts during practice. For example: quarterback/offensive drills in which he got more plays fired off by lining up our teams differently.

Reasons to go:

1) Outside of our secondary, the play of our players hasnt risen in any sort of dramatic fashion. This team still makes the same mistakes it did under Tony Sparano. The players that performed well under him(Wake) perform well under this staff. The players that struggled under Sparano still struggle under this staff. In fact, of late we have noticeably struggled in areas that used to be positions of strength(run stopping). Which is to say nothing of areas of weakness that still havent improved(o-line).

2) No victories to hang his hat on. We've played up to the level of some opponents and down to the levels of others. During that time, we havent had a decisive victory for this coaching staff to point to and say "this is what happens when you buy into what we are selling". Sure, we clobbered the Raiders and Jets last year, but those were some of the worst teams in the league. We beat the Colts this season, but we scrapped by. In the time Philbin has been here, we havent dropped +35 points on, say, the Patriots like Sparano did during the Wildcat game. We havent slapped around a contender. Despite that lack of "hallmark win", we have had some positively embarrassing losses. Losing to a practice squad quarterback and the Mike Glennon/Bobby Rainey Bucs have been extremely discouraging.

3) Scandal. No need to go into this, but some things have been inexcusable no matter what side your on: letting a headcase become a leader, not knowing whats going on in the locker room, etc.

4) Game day mistakes. We still have trouble with our clock management and we still dont make the right calls on challenges. Some of our substitutions and play calls are horrific(Daniel Thomas should never be given another stretch play, ever). Granted, while all teams make mistakes, its fairly inexcusable for this staff to be making the same mistakes they did a year ago. That is not a good sign.

5) Perception. If fans are questioning why everyone in the former "leadership council" is no longer around, then you can be sure its come up in the locker room. It doesnt really matter if it was Ireland or Philbin who did that, the stigma is attached to Philbin. That can create a lack of trust and a lack of communication between the players and coaches.

6) There is no reason to hamstring a future regime with this coaching staff. While it is not Philbin's fault Ireland filled this roster with crappy and overpaid players, Philbin had to know there was a possibility he would go down with the ship if things started to falter. That possibility was clear to everyone. No one forced him to take the job. No one even forced him to interview for the job. He gambled on his own abilities and he could lose big. I believe the average time a coaching staff has is 2 years to show noticeably improvement. Thus far, we havent shown that. In fact, we could end up worst then we were last season, by quite a bit.

For my closing argument, i could point out the negatives outweigh the positives, but instead i'll focus on one fundamental of the NFL: can we improve with a new coaching staff? The answer is clearly yes. If players can be cut or replaced through no fault of their own by a better acquisition, then that same standard can be held to the coaching staff. Joe Philbin simply hasnt done much to earn our loyalty other then being hired in the first place. While he is not a bad coach and even good in some areas, he does have enough poor qualities to make us all question if he can win a Superbowl. If he is not a special coach, if he has not clearly shown special qualities, why should we waste the time? The answer is: we shouldnt.

GUILTY!!! Fire his ass!
 
I disagree with this. We don't need to find a guy with head coaching experience, we need to find a guy who has the right attributes for the job. The one successful coach in the history of this franchise -- who also happened to be the most successful coach in the history of the league -- had very limited experience when he got his first head coaching job. But he had the intelligence, the toughness, the presence, and the command to get the job done.

Go find somebody who understands game strategy and motivation of men. I was only half joking when I suggested we take a look at Chad Pennington. Look outside the box. What is Brian Billick going to bring to this franchise? Serious question, what on earth does someone like that bring to this franchise besides "He's done it before?"

sorry sir, but I have to disagree with your disagreement...haha...well sort of.

Assuming you were taking the great Don Shula as your example reference. The facts here are incorrect - he was young yes, but by today's standards Shula had at least 6 years head coach coach experience with the Baltimore Colts before Joe Robbie snapped him up - this is something Philbin simply doesn't have & ultimately is trying to gain at the Dolphins. But can you honestly say of what you have seen of Philbin you think he's going to be the next Shula? No point sticking this one out, yes its another staff turnover but lets do it until we get it right, not because we are simply fed up with the the staff turnover and what to settle.

Plus, Shula's era and now are all very different with much more pressure on Philbin in a 'win now' environment. it may be wrong, but that's how it is. In all fairness, if Philbin's record and locker room antics were transferred to a 9-5 work environment he would be gone. e.g. profits decrease over 2 years & work environment scandal with impending audit/lawsuit. Its harsh but that's the world we live in.

I do agree with you however on the possible replacement of Philbin possessing something new to the table who looks outside of the box. Its frustrating to see a lot of talent on the field not being utilized properly, however, its clear to see from Philbin's regime, we still do need some with HC experience who has seen it and been a winner before.
 
Sexy Rexy never had any head coaching experience and has done OK, especially considering he's had NOTHING at QB.
 
Reason to keep him:

1. He's only in his second year.

Reason to fire him:

1. He's a package with Sherman.
2. We're a worse team than last year, even though we have more talent on the roster.
3. He's not an alpha male, he's not a players coach, he's not a buck-stops-here coach,...so what is he, then?
 
Philbin, you're out of order... this whole team is out of order

[video=youtube;BofddwtPBPw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofddwtPBPw[/video]
 
I think Philbin is probably a great
man but his offensive philosophy is the reason I want him gone. He doesn't value the running game enough and he is content to let Sherman run a Big12 style offense. It's frustrating seeing so many plays from the shotgun and especially frustrating to see empty backfields with a below average QB.
 
reasons to go:

1. go go


reasons to keep him:

1.Panthers HC Ron Rivera and his starting QB Cam Newton didn't have success together until their third season (this year). Fire the GM...fine. That's what the Panthers did after 6-10 and 7-9 records prior to this season. Picked up Dave Gettleman, got some pretty good talent on that team and they're finally having success in Carolina after 4 straight seasons of bad football. I'm afraid we might be giving up too soon on Philbin and it's definitely too early to give up on Tannehill. We need a change in front office philosophy for sure and maybe a few tweaks on the rest of the coaching staff, but I'm not sure we should let Philbin walk just yet.

if jeff is fired, what makes ross, or anyone else think the new GM will keep this coaching staff, probably want to bring in his own people. if ross says philbon stays thats why we will never get a decnt GM to take the position
 
Good reply but I have some comments:

Reasons to keep him:
He still has the locker room. The players seem to toe the line and there hasnt been any reported dissatisfaction with his coaching, other then an isolated incident on Hard Knocks during his rookie offseason.

The fact that the team was not willing/able to come out on Monday night and beat a second string QB and 4th string RB, tells me that for one night anyway, he lost the locker room and they were not willing to bust their butts for him.

Reasons to keep him:
Cause. While a head coach owns his record, Philbin hasnt been the biggest cause for losses: talent has.

There's MORE, not less talent on this team than last year. At least from their perspective. They got the players they wanted.

Reasons to keep him:
Practice habits. Philbin was praised for introducing new concepts during practice. For example: quarterback/offensive drills in which he got more plays fired off by lining up our teams differently.

Different does not mean better. I didn't hear any praise, in fact some players complained. The problem is, the speedy practices did not equate to faster play on the field. They can't even run a no huddle half the time, efficiently.

Reasons to go:
This team still makes the same mistakes it did under Tony Sparano. The players that performed well under him(Wake) perform well under this staff. The players that struggled under Sparano still struggle under this staff. In fact, of late we have noticeably struggled in areas that used to be positions of strength(run stopping). Which is to say nothing of areas of weakness that still havent improved(o-line).

BINGO.

Reasons to go:
Scandal. letting a headcase become a leader, not knowing whats going on in the locker room, etc.

No argument there. And I don't buy that they didn't know. They just didn't care, it was part of football to them.

Reasons to go:
Game day mistakes. We still have trouble with our clock management and we still dont make the right calls on challenges. Some of our substitutions and play calls are horrific. Granted, while all teams make mistakes, its fairly inexcusable for this staff to be making the same mistakes they did a year ago. That is not a good sign.

Absolutely correct. The coaching isn't any better. They make the same time-management mistakes they did last year, and sometimes the plays come in late, which I don't understand.

Reasons to go:
Perception. If fans are questioning why everyone in the former "leadership council" is no longer around, then you can be sure its come up in the locker room.

I agree. Anybody who was any kind of leader, and/or opened his mouth, was shown the door. So that includes the mouthy ones like Chad Johnson, and the respectful ones like Reggie Bush. The players that are left, are ones who don't care to lead or who are incapable of it, like Incognito, Wake, Pouncy, et al. To me, this points to ego and nothing more. They wanted to control the team, and control the culture, and so they have. They can't NOW say they didn't know anything or it was out of their realm of responsibility because they were busy drawing x's and o's on the chalkboard.
 
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