Kinzua said:This year's Dolphins team is significantly better than the 2005 team only at the QB position --.
That shows your knowledge.....we didn't upgrade the oline? DB's? Dline? Wr's??
Atleast try to make sense before typing....:rolleyes2
Kinzua said:This year's Dolphins team is significantly better than the 2005 team only at the QB position --.
This year's Dolphins team is significantly better than the 2005 team only at the QB position -- if Culpepper can play most of the season and approach his 2004 level (I don't rate JH as an upgrade over anybody but Feeley). The running game is not nearly as good without Ricky. The defense is marginally better -- and still old. That secondary is the "weakest link", although Jason Allen will eventually shore it up. I don't think Miami will be ready to challenge the Pats if the Pats stay healthy.
mea culpa. It was the December, 2002, game.
The New Guy said:I am not saying that the Pats can not compete for the division title, (as I think it will come down to the last few games of the season) but I think the Dolphins will win it this year. This year’s team is a lot better than last years, and we won 9 games with Frerotte at QB. I find it hard to believe that no Pats fans feel threatened by the Dolphins. If I was a Pats fan, I would. Feel free to bring the thread back up mid way through the season. I am willing to stand by anything I have said in this thread. I have a feeling though, that this thread will not be brought back up.
Fair enough. Certainly it's possible for the Fins to overtake the Pats, I just don't see it as likely.
I don’t think you could get one unbiased NFL fan to agree with that statement. The Pats have lost Adam Vinatieri, Willie McGinest, David Givens, Tom Ashworth, Tim Dwight, Matt Chatham, Christian Fauria, and last years DC Eric Mangini. In the past, the Pats have done well replacing the free agents they have lost, but I am just not sure how long they can keep that up. I don’t think Chad Jackson or Reche Caldwell is an upgrade over Givens. I definitely don’t think that Barry Gardner is an upgrade over Willie McGinest or Matt Chatham. I know that Martin Gramatica is not an improvement over Vinatieri. It remains to be seen how Pees will do in place of Mangini. If I was a Pats fan, my biggest concern would be the backup QB position. If Brady goes down, the Pats are in big trouble.I feel the Pats have upgraded as much or nearly as much as the Fins.
Saban picked up Will Allen, BB picked up Eric Warfield. I like Warfield better than Allen, you may not. Shelton is a questionable upgrade given his history. I guess he might be better than some tackles in the league, but not many. Better than the Fins had? That makes it an upgrade but not by much.
The New Guy said:That is all I am saying. I am not making any guarantees; I am just giving my opinion.
I don’t think you could get one unbiased NFL fan to agree with that statement. The Pats have lost Adam Vinatieri, Willie McGinest, David Givens, Tom Ashworth, Tim Dwight, Matt Chatham, Christian Fauria, and last years DC Eric Mangini. In the past, the Pats have done well replacing the free agents they have lost, but I am just not sure how long they can keep that up. I don’t think Chad Jackson or Reche Caldwell is an upgrade over Givens. I definitely don’t think that Barry Gardner is an upgrade over Willie McGinest or Matt Chatham. I know that Martin Gramatica is not an improvement over Vinatieri. It remains to be seen how Pees will do in place of Mangini. If I was a Pats fan, my biggest concern would be the backup QB position. If Brady goes down, the Pats are in big trouble.
Miami on the other hand, only lost a few players that were not going to see significant playing time anyway. The Dolphins have not only improved key positions, they have added depth as well.
At this point in their careers, I would take Will Allen over Warfield. He has the skills, and I think Saban can get him playing at the top of his game. LJ Shelton was a guy that Hudson Houck wanted in Miami, so that tells me something. The Qb position was definitely the biggest upgrade. Culpepper and Harrington is a huge upgrade over Frerotte and Rosenfels. I am still pinching myself. We have definitely upgraded the coordinator positions. Mike Mularkey might not have been a great coach, but I know he is a good OC. He may not be better than Linehan, but I think he will do well with Miami. Dom Capers is a big upgrade over Will Muschamp.
It remains to be seen how these new players will perform, but I like the direction we are going. I think we are going to give the Pats a run for their money, and take the division. We will see though.
patriots4ever said:Patriots thinking clear cut favorite to win East
I would never go on record saying that they are the clear cut favorite, but they still have to be the favorite to win. Let's face it, the division stinks with the exception of the Pats and Dolphins. It's a 2-dog fight, so to speak. As Dirtywater stated, the NFL is a tough league and anything can happen. Both teams have made significant changes on paper. Once they put that product on the field, however, now that's a different story. It should be interesting, I can't wait!
To say that the Pats are the clear cut favorite's would just be arrogant and plain stupid, given all the variables. Yet to say that they will win the East, as a fan of the Patriots, is confidence. IMO, there's a difference.
Tailgater said:Good post.
THe guys you named that the Pats lost, only two were starters. Chatham was replaced by Mitchell, who has even a better career on ST's than Chatham did.
AV will likely be replaced by the rookie drafted, (Gostkowski). He will be much better on kickoffs and at this point, has a stonger leg than AV. We'll see how he is in pressure situations. I think the Pats will be scoring more points than ever, so the days of winning half their games by 3pts is history.
Willie has been replaced by Vrabel - thats an upgrade. He's more versatile than Wille was at this stage of their careers. This is predicated on the major question as to whether Beisel is ready to take over the ILB spot next to Bruschi. Given his improvement late i the year, I think he can. If not, "we gotta problem Houston!" :)
I liked Givens, but please. He's a tough possesion receiver, a solid #2. Not sure if Caldwell will ever be able to replace him, but Jackson? I'll trust BB. He scouted him himself, giving him hands-on workouts before and after the draft. He'll be a star sooner rather than later.
Dwight, Fauria? Rather easily replaced by Troy Brown (and quite likely David Patten, when he's cut from the 'skins) and Fauria was nearly immobile last year. I think Thomas replaces him and outshines him by a long shot compared to last years stats Fauria put up.
The backup qb spot currently belongs to Cassel, who showed me a lot last year in the Fins game. I expect them to sign Fiedler or someone of his ilk prior to camp, also. That is a nice trio of QB's that I'd take over DC and Joey-boy.
All of this is just my opinion. I respect most of the thoughts here, unlike some of the national pundits who seem to be writing simply to get a rise out of passionate fans. We'll see how the season goes!
The New Guy said:Thanks for the information. I don’t follow the Pats as close as I do the Phins, and it is nice to hear your opinion on the players. I thought AV, Tom Ashworth, David Givins, and Willie McGinest were all starters.:confused2
I was not saying that the Pats did not have guys to replace the ones they have lost in free agency, I just did not think that those guys were upgrades over what was there last year. Replacing an all pro kicker with a rookie kicker is not an upgrade to me. He may kick off better, but like you said we will see how he does in pressure situations.
You mentioned that Vrabel is an upgrade over McGinest, but since Vrabel is moving over from the ILB spot, and is being replaced by Beisel, the real comparison is Beisel and McGinest. McGinest may be getting older, but he always seemed to make the big plays when the Pats needed them.
Givins was a solid # 2 reciver and a guy that could be counted on. Didn’t he have a touchdown reception in 7 straight playoff games? Caldwell may finally reach his potential in NE, but at this point he is not an upgrade. I really like Chad Jackson, and I think he will be a great receiver, but you can’t expect a rookie receiver to step right into the starting lineup and be successful. I am not saying that he won’t be successful, but I am saying as of right now you can’t consider him an upgrade over a proven guy like Givens. Troy Brown may be able to replace Dwight at the #3 spot, but who replaces Troy at the #4 spot? Dwight was also a good kickoff / punt returner. Troy may be able to replace him, but since he was on the team already and Dwight started in front of him, I don’t think he is an upgrade. As for the QB situation, until the Pats sign a vet, I would not be comfortable with the current situation. I think Cassel did play well against the Dolphins last year, but it was only one game. I don’t think he could be counted on to take the reigns if Brady goes down. As of right now I don’t feel the Pats QB situation has been upgraded from last year.
I do believe that the pats have some promising young talent, but as of right now none have yet to emerge as an upgrade from the guys that were there before. I know that the offseason is not over, but at this point, I think that the Dolphins have done a better job at improving the team. Like you said in your post, all of the above is just my opinion as well, and my point of view as a Phinfan. I thank you for your opinions, and stating them as such. It is refreshing to talk with a Pats fan who respect others opinions, and gives his at the same time.
Tailgater said:AV will likely be replaced by the rookie drafted, (Gostkowski). He will be much better on kickoffs and at this point, has a stonger leg than AV. We'll see how he is in pressure situations. I think the Pats will be scoring more points than ever, so the days of winning half their games by 3pts is history.
FaninPatsyLand said:How do you figure? I personally thought your offense in 2004 in particular (with a healthy and productive Corey Dillon) was better than the product (granted, the only verison I've seen is on paper, many rookies could step up and contribute) that you will be putting on the field this year. And in 2004, you never blew anyone out, so I have a very hard time seeing that... it's never been the Patriots style to run away and hide in games.
With that said, I'm interested to hear your reasoning behind that claim. You can downplay David Givens all you want, but I think Patriot fans are really going to miss Givens. Granted, he's no more than a #2 reciever like you mentioned, but he always made that TOUGH catch to keep a drive going or for the big play. And while I like Chad Jackson alot, I'm not sure he's going to be able to step in and be that #2 reciever for you guys, at least this year (has all the potential to be dominant down the road though, but they said that about Bethel Johnson too). Laurence Maroney is a very good back, and he's going to help alleviate some of the hits that your offense will take from the downtrend of Corey Dillon's production. But is Maroney going to be that much of a factor to transform a team that usually plays a grind-it-out style into an offense powerhouse that just steamrolls the opposition?
I don't buy it.
I have to put up with the ****y Pats fans every day, and most of them don't even see Miami having a winning record.movalli said::snooze: I hope the pats are in for a huge wake up call. Talk about a ****y article...
www.patriotsinsider.com:sidelol: