PFF Tannehill analysis (3rd Ranked Passer)

[phintim]

well my dad thinks the qb stinks to so you could add him to the list i guess...

Easy tiger, I hear you just alot of opinions out there about everything. So lets re phrase the situation, how much does muscle memory come into this situation which is what I think I am hearing from the other side of the asile on why they believe RT has a lower cieling and in my mind how does Ryann T compare to a Nick Foles etc.

 

[AFCMiamiEast]

He was directly responsible for multiple turnovers.

He also has had the 2nd most drops in the NFL, and the most with yards left out on the field by the receiver. I doubt some of you even opened up the link of the OP. Hartline does NOTHING to help his QB out down field, and needs to be upgraded. He is strictly a possession receiver, and I am over hoping for more red zone/down field potential from this guy. Yes, Wallace had two great TD catches (that he actually caught with his HANDS, go figure...) the first two games, but did you not see him try and cradle the ball right after burning Revis deep against New England, inevitably pushing his left foot completely out of bounds? Where as if he attempted to high point the ball in the air, he most likely would have came down with it cleanly in the end zone. A horrific play by a professional football player.

Dion Simms did him no favors when he delivered a perfect touch pass past Jamie Collins 30 yards down field in the end zone where he straight up dropped the ball. Yes, he has had ball placement issues recently, and that will improve with more time in the system. I don't see this guy regressing as this season passes by, I think a lot of people will change their tone.

 

[finomenal]

This is a decent article with some insight on what has happened through 2 weeks. This isn't to justify anything, I found it an interesting read, albeit a small sample size of the season. The numbers will change and he will land back in the pack. I like that PFF goes deeper with analytics to show where RT stands. Have a peek and would love to hear opinions

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/09/17/analysis-notebook-week-2-3/

PFF is officially a POS.

---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

PFF is total crap. Tannehill isn't 3rd in anything. You stat boys kill me with this crap. He's been bad both games so far.

So true. If you watch other games and see how other QBs perform, you know how ridiculous this is.

 

[hoops]

Easy tiger, I hear you just alot of opinions out there about everything. So lets re phrase the situation, how much does muscle memory come into this situation which is what I think I am hearing from the other side of the asile on why they believe RT has a lower cieling and in my mind how does Ryann T compare to a Nick Foles etc.

i think the legit gripe here is whether or not tannehill can develop between the ears and in the pocket presence wise at the level of an elite qb...i was betting on those things developing with time and reps given he was so green a qb in college even coming out as a pro and after seeing how advanced his decision making was early as a rookie...

if tannehill doesnt get to that level i think it will be because i have miscalculated his development in those two regards...it may go that route or the curve that i expected and still do will start to take effect...not many qbs come out of college masters of the pocket or with it all between the ears...qbs like brady and brees for instance both had to develop and were more game manager types than legit playmakers early...tannehill has all the physical skill sets you could ever ask for and he's smart as they come...

that's what it will come down to imo...i will either nail it or be off as a result...but i'm not scared...and i won't try and make it something it's not...

as for foles i would take tannehill any day over him...he does have pretty good vertical accuracy though...something that tannehill needs to improve at

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Quick, tell me who this QB was that had these stats and unsuccessful drives/bad decisions in the 2nd half of a game this year.

3 possessions, 3 first downs, 3 points.

6-7 for 51 yards in the 2nd half. 86% completions look pretty, but it doesn't tell the whole story either.

Last play of the 3rd qtr, 3rd & 5, QB throws a 1 yd pass to WR. Punt.

Middle of the 4th qtr, 3rd & goal at the 6, QB throws a 4 yd pass to WR and they settle for the FG which was seemingly set up by a 46 yard kick return and a 17 yard PI penalty.

 

[Fins1971]

"just what the hell is with PFF’s quarterback rankings? Ryan Tannehill is No. 3 despite a passer rating in the 70′s while Peyton Manning (with a league-leading 126.9 passer rating, six touchdowns and no interceptions) is down in 15th. Clearly PFF has been sniffing glue, right?"

PFF is giving too many points to plays that don't matter and not enough to the ones that do. League Leading 6 TD and no Ints and a 2-0 record is the most important QB stat. Peyton Manning 15th, garbage report.

 

[Fins1971]

Quick, tell me who this QB was that had these stats and unsuccessful drives/bad decisions in the 2nd half of a game this year.

Peyton Manning. But you fail to mention he threw 3 1st half TD's and built a double digit lead. KC started the 2nd half with a 10 minute drive (longest in franchise history)

Nice cherry picking of stats

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I'm sorry Hoops, but the tape is nothing even near sound. Sure, he might make some decision with the ball that you couldn't objectively call "Bad" decisions, but that's not the yardstick for a good QB, no matter what you say. The yardstick is whether he makes yards and TDs for his offense by exploiting the defense to the maximum possible. Tannehill is mentally and physically incapable of exploiting defenses. If, as happened against the Pats, our gameplan was perfectly crafted to take advantage of the Pats deficiencies, Tannehill will sometimes run that gameplan capably and sometimes win as a result. That's what happened in Week 1. He helmed a gameplan that had the Patriots number and the gameplan succeeded, despite us leaving multiple scores on the field. He should have bought Moreno dinner afterward, that's for sure.

You are not giving Tannehill enough credit. Two of the scores left on the field were the fault of the receivers, not Tannehill.

But when the gameplan isn't succeeding so well, or if the opponents deficiencies aren't showing up like you expected, Tannehill has nothing in the tank. Every week I watch QBs of all abilities hit an open receiver in stride down the field for a TD. They see a guy, he's in single coverage, he has the CB beaten and the QB lands a throw in his radius for a score. Tannehill appears incapable of hitting receivers in stride. He throws a flat, hard Henne-like ball that lacks touch and leads to more drops than you want. He can't lead a receiver with his throws. He doesn't have the vision or the touch to draw a receiver away from the defender. He has to hit a precise route spot or hit a guy in the numbers, even if that means the receiver has nowhere to go after catch. Even then, his accuracy is a bit ropey, he throws a lot of high balls.

He is not incapable of hitting receivers in stride. He may not do it as often as you would like, but saying incapable flies in the face of evidence to the contrary (e.g. drops by Sims, Clay, Miller, etc) in the first two games. The throws to Sims and Wallace were not flat. They were thrown with excellent touch.

He can't buy himself or his receivers time with his feet. When he rolls out, it's more like a sideways scramble than a quick movement to avid pressure and a reset of the feet. He can't decide to take downfield shots quickly, so he misses receivers and invites sacks. He processes the field pretty well, but his decision is usually the safe option and its thrown to avoid a pick rather than to lead a receiver. His downfield passing is too flat in trajectory and lacks touch.

There's no doubt he's a cool customer - doesn't let poor plays get to him too much. But he has to call on that trait a bit too often for my liking and the wow plays are way too few.

These issues are also over stated. The play to Wallace was a perfect example of moving to buy time, hitting a receiver in stride, and throwing with touch, all on the same play.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Peyton Manning. But you fail to mention he threw 3 1st half TD's and built a double digit lead. KC started the 2nd half with a 10 minute drive (longest in franchise history)

Nice cherry picking of stats

Cherry picking? No sir. I was offering perspective. Manning certainly set up his team to win in the first half, but his second half performance along with lack of possession led the Broncos defense to remain on the field much longer than it should have been. Broncos held the ball for a total of 9:06 in the second half. That defense was winded as the 3rd of 4th quarter progressed being on the field for almost 21 minutes in mere game clock time which allowed the Chiefs to mount their comeback which just fell short. It's a valid point.

Also if you look at the respective drives the Chiefs scored directly of both of the Broncos 3 and out possessions in the first half.

It's simply a factual perspective. I'm trying to interject a mindful debate process (much like that of the OP article), as opposed to an emotional one.

 

[finfanaz]

When people criticize Pro Football Focus, they say that the grades are not an accurate reflection of what happened while completely ignoring that is not what PFF is trying to grade. They don't grade based on result, they grade based on what an individual player accomplished on any given play.

For example: Hartline's egregious drop on the deep pass from Tannehill was a perfectly placed ball. Not only does Hartline get graded negatively from dropping the pass, Tannehill probably still gets the same positive grade he would have had the pass been completed.

Right now, according to PFF, the Dolphins have the second-highest drop rate in the league (8 drops on 9.9% of passing plays). At least two of those drops (the Hartline dropped pass and the Sims dropped TD pass from the Patriots games) were perfectly thrown balls. I imagine Tannehill's QBR spikes significantly if you factor in another 50+ yards and 2 TDs.

QBR and PFF are two radically different ways of grading quarterbacks because they're looking at two completely different things.

 

[So Be]

I read Hoops analysis every week, does a great job, and I almost always agree with him. The same is true with PFF and, when I compare the two, they are saying pretty much the same with more detail from Hoops. This shows me they both spent a lot of time watching game film, which I appreciate.

I also see some posters making valid disagreements. For example, SQuinn on Miller having more than 1 drop this year. He was right, and PFF changed and gave him 2. JDW posted that PFF was way too high in RT's grade. He was right, and PFF did downgrade him. Just a couple of examples.

Then, I read many a posts with negative nonsense, claiming that they do not go by stats, and go by the eye test in their watching games. This is kinda silly, as PFF does not go by stats but, their eyeball tests which take over 10 hours of watching game film.

For me, it brings to mind a great tune from Mose Allision titled " You're Mind Is On Vacation, And Your Mouth Is Working Overtime" as for many a post only show watching high/low lights, with the eyeball test on being able to read, and agree, with the posts of others who have nothing specific to say.

It is unfortunate, and wrong, for VG posters to be included with this, and I have done it before as well. It's just that with sooo many negative nonsense posts, you sometimes do not bother to look at who is posting, and what they are saying.

JMO

 

[hoops]

just wondering have we been able to come up with a shot down the boundary on that wallace to tannehill miss on the double move vs the pats yet???

 

[Fins1971]

Cherry picking? No sir. I was offering perspective. Manning certainly set up his team to win in the first half, but his second half performance along with lack of possession led the Broncos defense to remain on the field much longer than it should have been. Broncos held the ball for a total of 9:06 in the second half. That defense was winded as the 3rd of 4th quarter progressed being on the field for almost 21 minutes in mere game clock time which allowed the Chiefs to mount their comeback which just fell short. It's a valid point.

Also if you look at the respective drives the Cheifs scored directly of both of the Broncos 3 and out possessions in the first half.

10 minutes of possession time came from the opening drive of the 2nd half. How is that Peyton's fault? It was the defenses fault for not getting off the field on 3rd down.

Broncos did have some 3 and outs after that. But momentum had swung in that game. KC was 11 for 16 on 3rd down, Hardly Peyton's fault.

KC drove the field on every second half possession, had nothing to do with 3 and outs.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

just wondering have we been able to come up with a shot down the boundary on that wallace to tannehill miss on the double move vs the pats yet???

I posted screen shots from the only views that were available on NFL rewind. I have not seen any angles from along the sideline.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

I take it RTSuperbowl2014 opts for the emotional roller coaster type analysis.