Philbin and Ireland were "not entirely convinced" he would beat out Moore (Flynn) | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Philbin and Ireland were "not entirely convinced" he would beat out Moore (Flynn)

I find it pretty funny when the Dolphins don't talk about the outcome a particular negotiation, everyone screams they wish they were more transparent, but when they do let us in on there line of thinking we call it damage control.

I mean is there any other reason beside what's being report it on why we didn't sing Flynn. Even if you hate this front office, that's the most obvious reason.
 
Mogwai said:
There's really no opinion I value higher than the insulting out of towner who throws digs at the fanbase he claims to be a part of. The fact that asking why bring someone in when you have no interest seems like a stupid question to you is pretty telling. Moore and Flynn had completely different perceived values when they hit the open market. You're not offering Mario Williams 2M to come compete with Tony McDaniel when Buffalo's offer is on the table.
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For starters, I live in NY, but I attended middle school, high school and college in Miami. Now, that I'm "qualified" to have an opinion, let's get to the crux of the matter. Flynn is in Seattle because they were willing to break the bank for someone that you aren't even sure is going to beat out your starter. Wasn't worth it imo and obviously in Jeff's and Joe's opinion as well.

Seattle has an insane amount of $ under the cap, so they can choose to throw that type of $ around and it wouldn't hurt their plans for 2012. We on the other hand, aren't in that same position, and I don't blame Ireland one bit for allowing him to walk. They didn't think he was worth it, and whether you agree or not doesn't really matter because they know far more about the player than any of us do.

I personally wanted us to sign Flynn, but if his coach of 4 years didn't think he was worth the investment because we have a better option in Moore, I'm on board. I've had enough of the AJ Feely's, Jay Fiedler's, Trent Green's, Daunte Culpepper's, and so on and so on; so any insight that can help avoid another one, I'm for it. Obviously, Dolfans aren't tired of that movie, since they're anxious to watch it once again.
 
NYPhinzFan said:
For starters, I live in NY, but I attended middle school, high school and college in Miami. Now, that I'm "qualified" to have an opinion, let's get to the crux of the matter. Flynn is in Seattle because they were willing to break the bank for someone that you aren't even sure is going to beat out your starter. Wasn't worth it imo and obviously in Jeff's and Joe's opinion as well.

Seattle has an insane amount of $ under the cap, so they can choose to throw that type of $ around and it wouldn't hurt their plans for 2012. We on the other hand, aren't in that same position, and I don't blame Ireland one bit for allowing him to walk. They didn't think he was worth it, and whether you agree or not doesn't really matter because they know far more about the player than any of us do.

I personally wanted us to sign Flynn, but if his coach of 4 years didn't think he was worth the investment because we have a better option in Moore, I'm on board. I've had enough of the AJ Feely's, Jay Fiedler's, Trent Green's, Daunte Culpepper's, and so on and so on; so any insight that can help avoid another one, I'm for it. Obviously, Dolfans aren't tired of that movie, since they're anxious to watch it once again.
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I think you missed his point
 
NYPhinzFan said:
For starters, I live in NY, but I attended middle school, high school and college in Miami. Now, that I'm "qualified" to have an opinion, let's get to the crux of the matter. Flynn is in Seattle because they were willing to break the bank for someone that you aren't even sure is going to beat out your starter. Wasn't worth it imo and obviously in Jeff's and Joe's opinion as well.

Seattle has an insane amount of $ under the cap, so they can choose to throw that type of $ around and it wouldn't hurt their plans for 2012. We on the other hand, aren't in that same position, and I don't blame Ireland one bit for allowing him to walk. They didn't think he was worth it, and whether you agree or not doesn't really matter because they know far more about the player than any of us do.

I personally wanted us to sign Flynn, but if his coach of 4 years didn't think he was worth the investment because we have a better option in Moore, I'm on board. I've had enough of the AJ Feely's, Jay Fiedler's, Trent Green's, Daunte Culpepper's, and so on and so on; so any insight that can help avoid another one, I'm for it. Obviously, Dolfans aren't tired of that movie, since they're anxious to watch it once again.
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garbage...$10 mil guaranteed on matt flynn provided you put the contract together the right way doesn't kill anyones cap...i don't want to hear that nonsense...we were willing to pay manning whatever it would have took to make it work yet $10 mil on a qb with 2 starts and that fits this system is a no go...and garrards here in whats likely gonna cost us $5 mil for one year...

its jibberish...as for that movie you're tired of thats exactly what you're gonna get with matt moore and david garrard...exactly
 
NYPhinzFan said:
For starters, I live in NY, but I attended middle school, high school and college in Miami. Now, that I'm "qualified" to have an opinion, let's get to the crux of the matter. Flynn is in Seattle because they were willing to break the bank for someone that you aren't even sure is going to beat out your starter. Wasn't worth it imo and obviously in Jeff's and Joe's opinion as well.

Seattle has an insane amount of $ under the cap, so they can choose to throw that type of $ around and it wouldn't hurt their plans for 2012. We on the other hand, aren't in that same position, and I don't blame Ireland one bit for allowing him to walk. They didn't think he was worth it, and whether you agree or not doesn't really matter because they know far more about the player than any of us do.

I personally wanted us to sign Flynn, but if his coach of 4 years didn't think he was worth the investment because we have a better option in Moore, I'm on board. I've had enough of the AJ Feely's, Jay Fiedler's, Trent Green's, Daunte Culpepper's, and so on and so on; so any insight that can help avoid another one, I'm for it. Obviously, Dolfans aren't tired of that movie, since they're anxious to watch it once again.
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I wasn't disqualifying your opinion. Just giving you an excuse for sounding like a dick in that first post. Guess you don't have one. What exactly are the big plans we had for our 2012 cap space? There's nothing crippling about the contract Flynn signed. I'm not debating that if Philbin decided he was not worth a look that wasn't the right move. Because obviously he would know. But circumstances really don't indicate that we had a lack of interest. We looked pretty ****ing interested. I don't think Ireland let Flynn walk so much as he decided to. Whether it be through bungled negotiations or lack of confidence in our organization. Flynn gets only 10M guaranteed. It's no long term commitment. Though we may have had to sacrifice signing Garrard and Hicks. Oh no.
 
hooshoops said:
garbage...$10 mil guaranteed on matt flynn provided you put the contract together the right way doesn't kill anyones cap...i don't want to hear that nonsense...we were willing to pay manning whatever it would have took to make it work yet $10 mil on a qb with 2 starts and that fits this system is a no go...and garrards here in whats likely gonna cost us $5 mil for one year...

its jibberish...as for that movie you're tired of thats exactly what you're gonna get with matt moore and david garrard...exactly
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You keep comparing Flynn's contract to Gerrard's while going high on Gerrard's with incentive and staying low on Flynn's. Flynn's contract could reach 26 million over the three years so cost to the Seahawks is much greater than Garrard to us over one year.
 
andyahs said:
You keep comparing Flynn's contract to Gerrard's while going high on Gerrard's with incentive and staying low on Flynn's. Flynn's contract could reach 26 million over the three years so cost to the Seahawks is much greater than Garrard to us over one year.
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and you don't understand what the difference b/t guaranteed money and full contract terms are...flynn won't get that money in that total contract unless he shows them he's worth it...bottom line is if he fails they spent $10 mil finding out...we get a guy who does nothing for the future that if he makes the 53 and plays you can bet he reaches incentives that take him close to the $5 mil mark in garrard...

how you guys can't understand this i don't know...i can't put it out any plainer...
 
Mogwai said:
I wasn't disqualifying your opinion. Just giving you an excuse for sounding like a dick in that first post. Guess you don't have one. What exactly are the big plans we had for our 2012 cap space? There's nothing crippling about the contract Flynn signed. I'm not debating that if Philbin decided he was not worth a look that wasn't the right move. Because obviously he would know. But circumstances really don't indicate that we had a lack of interest. We looked pretty ****ing interested. I don't think Ireland let Flynn walk so much as he decided to. Whether it be through bungled negotiations or lack of confidence in our organization. Flynn gets only 10M guaranteed. It's no long term commitment. Though we may have had to sacrifice signing Garrard and Hicks. Oh no.
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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the methodology by which they allocate their resources. As I said, I was in favor of signing Flynn, but not for that type of $, considering the sample size of his body of work is so small. Everyone likes to talk about guaranteed money, but what is his cap hit in 2012? 2013? How much more $ would we have to sign rookies, 2nd/3rd tier free agents? Now if he's THE GUY, then you pay that price with no concern and do what's necessary to create cap space to make additional moves, but if you don't believe he's that guy, why do it?
 
Sorry.. I'd take Gerrard any day over Flynn. Flynn has started 2 games. Philbin wasn't willing to gamble his reputation on Flynn.

That's all you need to know.

Stop crying over Flynn. What's done is done.
 
Some of you guys logic does not make common sense. Just look at the facts. they wanted to sign Flynn to a 3 year contract at the GMs price. GM has yet to offer an extended contract to Moore who is getting 2.7M this year which is less then Gerrard.

you all are trying to make comparisons when actions say GM does not see Moore as a long term solution. His value is less then Gerrard and Flynns. We have 3 losing seasons in a row and many more in the last 15 years. Ask yourselfs what ws the difference between the losing ones and the winning ones?

Answer is: Chad Pennington (a francise starter whn healthy)
 
NYPhinzFan said:
I've been saying this since the beginning. No way Ireland was making this move by himself; he without a doubt leveraged Philbin's knowledge and judgment of Flynn.

People say "why bring him in if you didn't believe in him?", and that question sounds very stupid and very Fin-fanbase-like. You bring him in because he piques your interest, he knows your system and you want him to come in to compete. No different than why they brought in Matt Moore last year; he ran a similar system in Carolina to what Daboll ran. Now if Matt Moore wanted $8m a year, we would've moved on just like we did with Flynn. But that's the short-sighted Dolphin fan for you.
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Well said!

I don't think any real Dolphin fan is thrilled about having just Girard and Moore but overpaying Flynn doesn't automatically fix anything. I think quite a few on this board are so anxious that they have a "READY - FIRE - AIM" mentality just because they know that our current situation is not good and something needs to change in order to make things better.

What we DON'T need is change for the sake of change's sake. If the coaches who knew Flynn didn't think he was worth it then I believe it for now. They could be wrong but the smart money bets on them and not on the ESPN experts.
 
napsndreds said:
the thing with miami that seperates us from most teams is we are always stuck doing the safe thing and as long as we stay doing safe things we will always be .500 and below.
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Good point.........
 
I don't think I have ever seen a team in the same position as we are with the QB position. We have Phiblin to decide whether or not Flynn is worth being a franchise QB....and Sherman to decide whether or not Tannehill can be a franchise QB. Either way, the decision is on these two if either of those guys pan out or bust, NOT Ireland.
 
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